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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:53 am 
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Bruce Doull
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But you dont think we desperately need FIRST crack at draftees and uncontracted players???.. thats not important right???

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:56 am 
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Bruce Doull
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ThePrez wrote:
get into him CB - god knows im sick of arguing with him 8)

the sooner they get rid of the priority pick the better it will be for the competition.

the only reason you should be able to get a priority pick is if over a 3 year span you dont win more than 15 games - then and only then should you get a priority unlike the joke of a system we find our selves in at the moment.

being rewarded for losing is the biggest F@%&#! joke known to man



Getting rid of the pp is another matter.. cos its here and to say it shouldnt is wishful thinking..
You just have to get with the realities of the situation not the fantasies.
Priority pick and getting rewarded is the reality.
i hope it stays around next year too...

And when were back up and firing its lost forever!!!

Cos other clubs have improved their lot using it in the past and we have only had picks taken away from us...

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:04 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Blueman, i don't agree that the draft is the only way to bring talent to the club.
There is also the little old factor known as the trade.

Carlton used it to get Brad Pearce, Greg Williams and Earl Spalding to the club.
Port used it to get about 10 players to their club that played in last year's premiership.

I say trade Campo (leave him on the bench this week or in defence) and Whitnall and get some quality
players to the club.... who is out there????


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:05 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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ThePrez wrote:
get into him CB - god knows im sick of arguing with him 8)

the sooner they get rid of the priority pick the better it will be for the competition.

the only reason you should be able to get a priority pick is if over a 3 year span you dont win more than 15 games - then and only then should you get a priority unlike the joke of a system we find our selves in at the moment.

being rewarded for losing is the biggest F@%&#! joke known to man


Getting rid of the PP is not going to end this argument.

We're still going to argue over whether we have to finish last to get Murphy or whether we could finish second last and put up with just the second best youngster.

The point Synbad isn't taking in is that none of us is saying we don't want good draft picks, of course we want those, but is the difference between 1st and 2nd pick so great that we should be openly willing our team to lose?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:06 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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ThePrez wrote:
being rewarded for losing is the biggest F@%&#! joke known to man


No-one said that this system wasn't funny, but its the system we have to live with - you want to change it get yourself appointed on the AFL Commission - (I will vote for you :wink: ).

The Clubs voted themselves out of a direct say on how the game was run when they voted for a Commission (back in 84 I think), before that remember the "old chestnut" was "The VFL is the 12 clubs". :wink:

All the Club Presidents had 1 equal and very parochial vote. :roll: We might still have Form 4s and the Bendigo Zone as well. Ah the good old days - remember those the outer was so crowded you had to piss down your leg because you couldnt get to the toilet. Yep great days those. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:36 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Synbad wrote:
But you dont think we desperately need FIRST crack at draftees and uncontracted players???.. thats not important right???


Maybe we do, maybe we don't, but I'm not going to lower my self esteem and dignity to a such a desperate low that I am basically begging our team to lose.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:45 am 
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Bruce Doull
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camelboy wrote:
Synbad wrote:
But you dont think we desperately need FIRST crack at draftees and uncontracted players???.. thats not important right???


Maybe we do, maybe we don't, but I'm not going to lower my self esteem and dignity to a such a desperate low that I am basically begging our team to lose.
Maybe we dont???? :lol:
Im sure your dignity will still be intact camelboy.....
unbelievable how some people talk about personal dignity in Canberra with how their footy team fares ....

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:57 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Synbad wrote:
camelboy wrote:
Synbad wrote:
But you dont think we desperately need FIRST crack at draftees and uncontracted players???.. thats not important right???


Maybe we do, maybe we don't, but I'm not going to lower my self esteem and dignity to a such a desperate low that I am basically begging our team to lose.
Maybe we dont???? :lol:
Im sure your dignity will still be intact camelboy.....
unbelievable how some people talk about personal dignity in Canberra with how their footy team fares ....


for every bit of "scoop" you sometimes bring us

with statements like that your creditbility gets thrown out the window.

synbad - to be totally honest - if you cant respond without snide remarks dont respond at all.

i for one, as im sure many others as well, are tired of it - just about everyone else here can have arguments with out the snide remarks but a person of your "intelligence" you never cease to post something without a snide remark.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:07 am 
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blueman wrote:
If no one disagrees with that, then why go down the many pathways to a flag line of reasoning.


Because, if it relied on talent alone, why are Port languishing outside the 8 after only minor changes to their playing list? We've been over, and over, and over this before on here.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:10 am 
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Harry Vallence

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I am sure that CB is big enough and ugly enough that he can stand up for himself.That is of course if he took seriously what some might construe as a bit of fun?

Perhaps Prez before you get on your high horse about people expressing themselves you might need to revisit your sign off? :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:31 am 
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Ken Hunter
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so you get off yours I'm sure Synbad is big enough etc. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:57 am 
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Harry Vallence

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To be honest I couldn't careless if we finish last instead of second last. Great clubs say we've won so many premierships and that's the only barometer there is. You don't hear Collingwood, Essendon* or in the past Carlton supporters say we've won this many premierships and this many wooden spoons, you say we've won this many premierships, full stop. This idea that Carlton's record could now be sixteen premierships and two wooden spoons is absolute crap, because counting wooden spoons in your record is a barometer introduced by the likes of St. Kilda supporters in general and in the media because their club needs something to measure themselves against us. If you buy into this we've won this many premierships and 'lost' this many wooden spoons, you have to realise your not upholding the Carlton 'dignity', but absorbing the maliase of AFL equality. Protecting our wooden spoon record has got nothing to do with the modern Carlton I know, it's about not coming to terms with the AFL system that favours being the biggest loser.

Carlton have always had a winning culture and dignity, look getting Pagan to the club was Elliot's last attempt to maintain this character. And the current board are holding onto Pagan like there's no tomorrow because without him at the helm the media would be swirling around us like they did when we got our last wooden spoon and our club's brand would be even further tarnished. People need to realise you hold onto your pride in private and in the public reality of a football comp. like the AFL public upholding of dignity is transitional. That's what a wooden spoon is, transitional. Maguire made a transition of business fundamentals at Collingwood like a swooping eagle, our club is still struggling to do so, everyone needs to learn to keep you dignity in your hip pocket for five years.

Now half of you are probably sick to death of me, to this years draft, people need to get educated, and BlueMark you need to come on board here because it's a socialist approach, and if you're extremely intelligent about it, it's hardcore communism.

Pick one IS Marc Murphy, if here's not there we have to accept it, but if he is bang, we can expect a captain of our club. In the U18 Championships, the team he captained VIC Metro were widely expected to come third or fourth out of four teams but won every game and the comp. by playing with a fantastic spirit. He was All-Australian and named best player in the comp, as well as being the winning captain. This is the invaluable asset we need at our club.

Pick two is Xavier Ellis. Great younger age player who has a lot of potential, but is considered a class below Murphy.

Pick three is where the debate comes in, of course there are decent players, there are players who 'COULD' be match winners but the class drop is further significant.

So where do supporters want to be in this year's draft :?: As Synbad, Phoenix and I try to communicate, it really is get pick one and a shot at leader as proven as a leader can be at his age or hang onto your pride and join the lottery of talent identification with the other fifteen clubs. These are the circumstances of this year's draft, seek other opinions, i doubt you'll find them.

Next year's draft is a different matter. If the players available next year were available this year, seven most likely eight of them would be in the top ten of this year's draft. One or two of them may have leadership qualities, none are guaranteed to have.

These are the circumstances of the next two drafts, if we happen to lose on Saturday and finish last this year, please absorb them and take comfort.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:57 am 
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Craig Bradley
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7dominator wrote:
I am sure that CB is big enough and ugly enough that he can stand up for himself.That is of course if he took seriously what some might construe as a bit of fun?

Perhaps Prez before you get on your high horse about people expressing themselves you might need to revisit your sign off? :wink:


my sign off is meant as a joke and everyone knows that.

but i dont ever carry on like synbad does and i have "debates" with alot of people yet never see the need for snide remarks.

i have no problem with people having opinions - but half of what synbad writes isnt an opinion - its a personal snipe at someone.

i get it, cb is getting, everyone that doesnt agree with everything he says gets it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:18 am 
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Bruce Doull
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The funniest thing about bagging Canberra for its politicians is that of the 230-odd of them (reps and senators) only four are from Canberra, so small minded remarks like that don't really bother me. Indeed there's many, many more of these people from Victoria, as one example, so how does that reflect on the genuises making such ill-informed remarks? They're representing you, not me.

Further, I've stated that I understand the situation in which we find ourselves, but it's the eagerness of actually wanting to come last that bugs me. I get the feeling that even if there were no draft that many would still want us to come last. And my point being, how many drug pick hits are enough? What if the draft the year after next is a ripper too, do we just keep on tanking because there's goood kids available?

I have no problem with the 3-5 year, or maybe even more, timeline. I even understand the point about Marc Murphy being more important this year compared to other years. But I just cannot embrace this culture of failure so openly as some. It's wrong and against every fabric that any football club, let alone Carlton, should stand for.

I've got the Plague, there's no doubt about that, but I'm fighting it with every thing I know is right, because embracing the Plague is the antithesis of sporting endeavour.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:51 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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camelboy wrote:

I get the feeling that even if there were no draft that many would still want us to come last.


Not sure how that would work camelboy, with no "prizes" for finishing last I'm sure the talk would only be about winning. If there was no draft, and it was just a free-for-all to pick up the young kids, that would be ugly in it's own way.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:16 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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camelboy wrote:
The funniest thing about bagging Canberra for its politicians is that of the 230-odd of them (reps and senators) only four are from Canberra, so small minded remarks like that don't really bother me. Indeed there's many, many more of these people from Victoria, as one example, so how does that reflect on the genuises making such ill-informed remarks? They're representing you, not me.

Further, I've stated that I understand the situation in which we find ourselves, but it's the eagerness of actually wanting to come last that bugs me. I get the feeling that even if there were no draft that many would still want us to come last. And my point being, how many drug pick hits are enough? What if the draft the year after next is a ripper too, do we just keep on tanking because there's goood kids available?

I have no problem with the 3-5 year, or maybe even more, timeline. I even understand the point about Marc Murphy being more important this year compared to other years. But I just cannot embrace this culture of failure so openly as some. It's wrong and against every fabric that any football club, let alone Carlton, should stand for.

I've got the Plague, there's no doubt about that, but I'm fighting it with every thing I know is right, because embracing the Plague is the antithesis of sporting endeavour.


Mate I thought he was actually paying out on you for coming from Canberra. The only real supporters live in Melbourne.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:26 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Benn invited out for coffee on Saturday afternoon, I am seriously considering taking up the offer. Can't see why I should bother going if we are playing for 'picks.' As I have said before I have better things to do with my time. I think 16 000 at MCG last weekend said a lot as well.

Yes Synbad I do get the picture, I just do not like it thats all. And as one or two others have said. There are many paths to winning a flag and a couple of early picks are not the simple answer the 'realists' advocate.





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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:32 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Not even going to come along to watch the kids play another game and further develop their own game?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:01 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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BlueMark wrote:
Benn invited out for coffee on Saturday afternoon, I am seriously considering taking up the offer. Can't see why I should bother going if we are playing for 'picks.' As I have said before I have better things to do with my time. I think 16 000 at MCG last weekend said a lot as well.

Yes Synbad I do get the picture, I just do not like it thats all. And as one or two others have said. There are many paths to winning a flag and a couple of early picks are not the simple answer the 'realists' advocate.





PS 79. I am a Taoist not a communist.


Many paths eh????/

16 teams vying for it each year and only one gets it...
Usually the one with the most talent not least.....

But let us know how you get talent injected into an injured club without the distress....????

Talk is cheap!!!!

Weve been talking about turning it around for too long..."we will beat the system!!!!"

Yeah righty o!!!!

As for the stupidity of yeah were Carlton we can turn it around.....???

We cant!!!The dice is loaded against us unless we take a sip of some of that yukky stuff.....

Prez.. you sound all weak and pathetic bitching about me all the time like you cant take it!!!
Thats very Surrey like.....

When i met you.. i thought you prided yourself on being robust and hardy....loving a stoush .. now youre forever taking cover and complaining.

Are you a broken man???? :wink: :P


Back on the topic.. if we win a premiership ..and were dancing around at Optus... who will give a shit that we lost to Hawthorn to do it???

I reckon alot of people have lost touch with PERSPECTIVE... so desperate to win a meaningless game they will throw away the future.
This is one season... the Hawethorn game is one game...we should be thinking about the next TEN YEARS and what is the best way of approaching those TEN YEARS.....

What the hell is wrong with some of you????

It really is pathetic to see you all squirming around in the hope you can pick up the crumbs fo0r the sake of a year or a game.. or 3 years, when the real picture is winning the next premiership.

You dont work at becoming an also ran.. every team works at winning a premiership. The premiership is reserved for the best team... Were miles away from resembling THE BEST TEAM.. so lets try and work towards the best team.. by starting off with bringing in the best talent.Like we always have.

Barks4Everr.. i heard your coach wants a pay rise if he wins a premiership?????.... but the players have to sacrifice money for premierships that might or might not come.

Also heard that it is alleged that he had a house given to him by your president and when the president asked for the loan to be paid back... your coach said "Piss off i put you on the map!!!".. thats the allegation around the place...

Sounds like youre in great hands... :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:02 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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I get the logic reason purpose idea notion of finishing last and realising that to end up bottom is better probably for our long term future - fantastic if we end up get murphy and kozi BUT
I AM NOT GOING TO THE FOOTBALL THIS WEEK HOPING WE GET BEATEN BY BLOODY HAWTHORN- as suggested the other day I go wanting my team to win and it is always my mindset - its old fashioned it might be myopic it is definitely emotive - it might be even detrimental to my clubs long term future BUT Ive been going for decades now and Im afraid thats just me and the way I have always thought and the way I approach and have approached barracking for my team-
Sometimes people cant approach football or their team without an emotional attachment even if logic suggests you should do otherwise- thats what makes football great

And just one question what happens if Murphy goes under the father/son rule to Brisbane and Kozi signs with saints !!!!!!


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