I think the operative word is "develop" for the future. Playing youngsters and dropping senior players who are out of form to the seconds would achieve the desired effect I think.

It would be nigh on impossible to prove Carlton deliberately threw matches (something I believe this club will never do anyway) unless there was evidence (written probably) or someone testifed to this.

Considering our position we need to know which players have something to offer and which one's will move on. Due to the reality of the list we're starting this process earlier than others but we're also worse off than others so it's probably to be expected.

The only thing people could say is we are not picking our best team which is really open to debate anyway. Name players running around in the seconds whilst playing youngsters could be argued either way. You could say we're not picking our best team now based on performances because there are guys in the seconds now giving a better week in week out performance than some running out for the seniors in the last 2 weeks particularly.

For the record I do not support this club throwing matches (tanking sugar coats what it really is). I do however think that the season is gone and we should start planning for 2006 now. What players are staying and who's going should be our priorities now. I say let's play players in a position for a period of time and see how they go. It's unrealistic to suggest we'll make the 8 and we're no chance for a flag so what comes after this - planning for the period when we do.

I'm happy to go along week in and week out knowing that our boys are having a go but simply not good enough. If my cold winter nights can be warmed up by an electrifying Eddie Betts display or a fantastic Walker mark or a Kade Simpson weave and carry then I'll be happy. I reckon we need to find out if we've got a geniune 2nd ruckman, fullback and CHF so let's find out.

Jordan Russell should debut for the club in the 2nd half to the season and hopefully Hartlett will get a taste as well. Setanta didn't get enough of a go for mine and should be given a run in the ruck to relieve Barnaby as his time is near to go back to the rookie list - after this we should play Bryan. De Luca will survive long term I think but he's obviously struggling at the moment so give him a rest - our seaon no longer hangs in the balance so let's release the shackles and enjoy giving our youngsters a go.

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The great are great to us only because we are on our knees. Let us arise.
--Robert Collier

All this talk of tanking.
I thought to tank would necessitate being in a position to win and electing not to.
I don't think we have the luxury of tanking.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

AH HA!!!!!

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

crappy Scandy pop band??

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

AB BA!!!

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

For those struggling to accept reality...

Pagan will never drop games, he will only advocate winning because he is a winner. He will only advocate improvement, and there is lots of room for that. He will only advocate getting the processes right.

I wonder how many people will renew their membership for 2006 and beyond knowingly Pagan tanked games to get pick number 2 instead of pick number 5 ?

Current system rewards mediocrity, & let's face it, we are mediocre. Finish the year with 4.5 wins & reap the rewards I say. We've won a spoon now, so whats another one?

Thing that concerns me is what is the value in playing kids (Walker, Blackwell, Bentick etc) & getting pumped each week. How does this improve our list? 1AW has the makings of being a real class act, but in this current style of game plan under the current structure, I've grave concerns for his development. On the other hand, why should established players keep getting rewarded for sub standard performances? Whats the answer, I don't know.

Another huge concern of mine is that I looked at our team on Friday night, & for the life of me, couldn't see anybody out there who warrants being our next captain

If Pick 2 was a "Chris Judd" and Pick 5 was a "Danny Roach" I would buy 10 memberships, then I would buy some more memberships for my friends.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Now you are really taking things too far Agro.

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"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about puppies." - Gene Hill

Because Kouta will never lead this team to a Wooden Spoon! Even is he is asked too, he wont do it!

Exactly.
I struggle to understand why some people don't want to have the chance of picking up the next Judd or Riewoldt.

Have a look at Hawthorn.
They get a few good, young, talented kids into their side and all of a sudden they are winning games and playing with confidence.
Who would have thought they would be ahead of us this year? I didn't.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

*yawn*

People gone senile.

Let me make this absolutely clear before I get in to what I have to sayI HATE LOSING however it is really quite F - U - C - K - I - N - G simple, the only way you are going to get quality onto your list (until the knobs on the AFL Commision change the rules) is to have the lowest NUMBERED DRAFT PICKS possible.

The science behind talent identification is quite precise now and generally speaking the top 5 or 6 kids identify themselves, the Danny Roach's of this world are far fewer these days.

Unless the Rocket Scientists around here can tell me another way to get Picks 1 to 6 other than finishing lower on the ladder or trading a player of currency - please let me know.

Oh yeah and once again I HATE LOSING - but I LOVE WINNING MORE.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

You were a brave man King Leonidas but in the end you died along with your 300 Spartans, if you want the club to die as well thats your problem.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

But they're not...not yet. As far as I can recall, neither have they been all season and we're more than a third of the way through the home and away season. Plus they lost to us.

True that, but who is playing the better brand of football at the moment?
Who's confidence is higher?

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

We've sold our pride down the river, all for the chance of some high draft picks.

Would we all be happy finishing last this year if we pick up an Anthony Banik next year?

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

The concern i have is that we have already picked up the next Judd or Riewoldt in Andrew Walker. We added a Russell and a Hartlett and an established star in Nick Stevens. And now we need to grab ANOTHER Judd or Riewoldt?

Surely we are not saying that in Andrew Walker we don't have the right guy. Stevens is being bandied about as the next captain, Russell, Hartlett and Blackwell (who i think will all be good for the Blues) are yet to play a game but we are saying we HAVE to finish bottom of the ladder?

I agree we are short on class but as long as the draft exists, every year there will be the temptation to grab the best youngster in the country through the draft. Every year there will be some highly regarded future stars. Is the temptation to get them every year? When do you have enough? When do you look to legitimately take forward steps and not aim to go backwards to go forward?

The addition of the best young talent will be great for our squad in the long run but if we finish with a PP this year and then after 8 rounds next year we have only won 2 1/2 games do we again have this arguement that we need to bottom out and get another PP so as we can go forward.

How much is enough?

I'm not happy being third last. I would be less happy being second last. Confidence is one thing, being second last and full of confidence is another thing. Confidence comes and goes like the tides.

No worries showbag, we are currently 2.5 wins from 8 games - lets make a run of 9 wins from the next 14 games and sew up 8th spot.

Deano - I know the pain you are going through it shits me it really does - but mate - the days of Anthony Baniks, Richard Lounder and Josh Fraser (:P ) Number 1 Draft Picks are gone, they dont happen anymore.

How long is long enough you ask showbag - until we make the finals, mate, until we make the finals.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill