OK, the board is in for a while longer and Pagan as well.

However, as we look towards a new season certain issues still need to be considered i.e. Membership and Sponsorship which from what I can tell are the financial lifeblood of any football club.

Therefore, notwithstanding the onfield problems and problems with the board (which aren't going to change for a little while yet), I have a couple of questions for TC'ers. They are, given the current circumstances within which the club currently finds itself:

1. If you were a supporter of a club and not a member, what specfic incentives would make you become a member; and

2. If you had funds with which to sponsor a footy club, what would you look for before committing those funds.

I'm sure people's answers to these questions are all over this forum, but I would be interested in looking at them all in one place.

A hypothetical, as I am a member, but if I were currently considering becoming one...

I'd want to think that the club was going to take my $150 or $200, and turn it into more than that. It's like any investment - when money is put it, you want a return. In this case, I want the club to benefit.

Membership dollars should never be a one way stream of cash. They should be used to push the club to a better position, and not just a budgeted expectation every financial year.

So I'd want my club to have a vision - both on and off field - about how they're going to improve. But more than that , I don't want them to tell me they have a vision and a process - I want that demonstrated whenever a decision has to be made. Critical.

As I said though, it's hypothetical, as I'm a member and I'll sign up anyway



I think it's a similar answer to the first, but I'd want to see financial benefits to my company as well as the club itself. The ideal situation is win lots of games, get lots of positive exposure, everyone wins.

I wouldn't be handing over money though to get my company's name on a jumper that is going to be associated with inept performance on and off the field.

Positive association is the key.

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Congratulations CK95

Welcome to the site.

Interesting first post. Should we be scared?

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Sounds like a setup but your nickname is good enough so I'll bite.

1. What would it take if I wasnt a member?

How about some freaking vision! After last week's debacle in the press the Club meakly put out a comment about our plan...success over the medium to long term at short term cost (hidden in an article with a picture of the President! Why not try a picture of Fev or Murphy if you want to convey a message!). What the hell does that mean? I want:

* Commitment to using our early picks
* Commitment to do all it takes to be back in the finals within 3 years
* Commitment to a Premiership within 5 years.

It doesn't mean heads have to role if we dont get it (but if we dont after 5 years they should move on anyway) but I want the Club to say that we're aiming for the top again. I am sick of the implicit excuses offered by the Club and wish Pagan would use another line other than 'We're working really hard'. Working hard gets you nowhere at the elite level without skills, support and commitment to be the best. It doesnt go far enough in sport, finance, law, politics... anywhere.

If we cant turn around the list from working hard alone then I ask where could we have been. Why continue to use late picks to stock up on Bullants when we should have been rebuilding all along. You cant partly rebuild - you need to embrace the draft, embrace the risk and embrace the kids. As a CLub with an incredible history we arent embracing this enough for my liking... we arent embracing the future.

Our fans will forgive us for the present if we emphasise the future. (And that means no Gardiner).

2. See answer to 1) but allow access to the kids. Find new ways to promote the kids as the future of Carlton without needing 30 second grabs all the time - make them ambassadors of the History of Carlton or something like that. Get someone to ghost-write Andrew Walker talking about the 1995 Grand Final.

We have the history - second to none. We have the future. Embrace them, combine them... put them together. Sponsors will love it.

Remove the negativity, blame and scandal. Forget the past - dont mention the draft picks again. Dont mention previous administrators again - they did their best and cannot influence now. Dont think of recruiting scandal to the Club; we've had enough.

Be positive; sell the past and future. Embrace the brand that originally brought most of us to Carlton.

1. I live interstate but I pay for a membership as a donation to the club that I love. However, not everyone is crazy about the club as I am. What would it require? It would require incentives for interstate members to sign up. More importantly, there would need to be some kind of "feel good" factor involved in signing up. There must be a feeling of being part of the Carlton community somehow. This has never been a strong point with Carlton - who've generally regarded ourselves as a rather parochial club. The hierarchy have continually neglected the possibilities that interstate supporters can provide in a financial sense.

2. Vision. Positive outlook with strategic planning for the future. A competent Board who would use the money I contribute in a productive and efficient way.

Value for money - a SOLID AND REPUTABLE BRAND NAME. Why commit funds to a club that has headcases who drink and drive on the list, who have poor role models for kids?

Why should I sponsor a club that has a Board that has a very poor record of promoting the sponsors, promoting the Club and generating good marketing revenue?

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Molsey, that's GOLD!



It's about what we have and not what we haven't that we should focus on as our positives, and as for the gaps, well that's where our vision steps in.

We have the richest history. Our history shows we have overcome adversity and premiership droughts with an onslaught of flags. We have legends of the game. We have the most flags.

Today we have the most extensive list of 18-23 year olds in the land. From this year's draft we add another 5-6 or more kids. This is the platform for our assault. This is what Sponsors, Members and supporters want to hear. They would all want to associate themselves with the renaissance; the vision.

The focus should be the next premiership with this group of quality kids...that's what I want to hear.

It's all too easy, and staring at as everyday. Now is the time to strike! We will win games more and more as time goes by, and if we stick to this vision and mission statement, the football world will start to believe it's true, as we climb up the ladder and they see our journey unfold; it then becomes everyone's reality, and if they haven't jumped on board, there's good reason to do so.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Im a member and pay up on misguided hope alone, but if I was a wavering supporter/supporter ther things that would get me on board would be:

1. The feeling that joining up will get me closer to the club. The feeling that my commitment to the club would be recognised and that I would in some way be closer to the club. By that I mean more than just an embroidered hat or a season's ticket.

Somerthing that adds to my sense of identity as a 'carlton person' etc. Add to this a plan for the future. Some kind of strategy that I can fall back on when we get belted by 10 goals. Its bad enough when we are losing, but when we look to be wandering aimlessley to boot it is even worse.

2. Association with something successful. The opportunity to acieve a mutual benefit from an association. I'm no expert but I do wonder sometimes how valuable a naming rights etc sponsorship is if you then end up being associated publically with something that is popularly regarded as incompetent, bankrupt and practically insolvent. Once again, this could still be Ok if the vision wasd communicated and it could be seen that something was building, but unfortunately at the moment associatio with CFC = association with bad news.

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

I'm hoping it's a setup

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Congratulations CK95

You see this type of question shouldn't have to be asked. The club should already know.

Who is the most successful sports administrator in Australia? Arguably it is John O'Neill. He took soccer from being a basket case, and made a real success of Rugby Union. Now, what was almost the first thing that O'Neill did when he took over soccer (but one of the last things he did with rugby)? He set up a central database, and he got everyone who had an interest in those sports to log-on. He got people to become 'members' (I say in inverted commas because there was no joining fee) of an on-line community. From there he had a heap of information which he was able to use to drive strategy in both organisations.

I think that what Carlton needs is something like a 'MyCarlton' database. It should be set-up so that anyone with an interest in the Carlton football club can log-on and register their details. The club needs to realise that whilst the heart and the soul of the club is in Melbourne, that the body covers much of Australia and the rest of the world. We need to create a virtual community of people with an interest in Carlton. By registering on this site these people can then receive 'benefits'. Maybe it is something like one player logging on each week and answering questions from fans (we can't all get SEN you know). But there needs to be just a small, and inexpensive sweetener to the whole deal - something that will get people interested.

From this database, the club can start to determine what it needs to do to get these people who have registered to become members. I believe there is a lack of understanding as to what benefits members in Victoria / Australia / Rest of the World actually want. For example, if I am a Carlton fan with a young family growing up in London. I love the club, but my wife wants to stay in the Old Dart. Now, I'm not going to pay for a full membership - but what the hell, I am happy to put each of my kids onto a $20 'pseudo-membership' where they get merchandise such as a card and a small present for their birthdays. Just helps to build the brand. When those kids grow up - if they have come back to Australia then the club has treated them well, and they may well become full-fledged members.

Whatever - I just think that the club must do all it can to start to build a database so that it can understand who is interested in the footy club, and what will help them part with their cash (even in just small amounts).

Absolutely, similar ideas have been put the club. It's something I think is essential for the club.

But I think a group of us must develop this idea properly and present to the club a coherant plan about how it can be implemented and its costs and benefits.

Enough of us here have contacts at the club to be able to make this idea happen.

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Maybe the answer is John O'Neill? Get in an experienced and qualified operator as CEO and watch what would happen. Initiatives shouldn't need to be suggested from outside the club, they should have enough of their own. And if the don't, or want to confirm their ideas, how about focus groups, market research, etc.

The point is there is a worrying trend that no new ideas seem to be forthcoming from either the baord or the executive at the club.

I honestly think - get ready for some controversy here... that someone from TalkingCarlton or TBV or CSC should run for the board as an independent. The reality is that whatever opposing tickets we are presented with, these people just seem to only have an idea about how to cosy up to corporate members. They don't understand what 'normal' members want or desire.

CarltonClem made an interesting point in another post. Interstate members in particular really and truly pay for a membership as a sign of respect and belief in the club. Now whilst that is fine for Clem, or myself, or SydneyBlue, or NTBlue or whoever else you would care to mention - I reckon that there are at least another four or five interestate supporters who don't get on board because they can't see any benefit. It is these people (and of course those in the Melbourne heartland) who we really need to be targetting. The club should be coming at it from a grassroots perspective. Corporates will want to get on board when they can see that there is a groundswell of popular support.

I think that until there is a voice for the 'regular' members on the board then we will struggle to move past the dire situation in which we now find ourselves.

Someone would be able to run from these forums with a minimum of financial outlay. All they would need do is to send a viral email to all members, and maybe to develop a small website which could outline their goals and ambitions and how they intend to hear the voice of the average supporter. I also think that this person would be able to successfully target supporter groups in the NT, Tas, WA, SA, QLD, and NSW as rich sources of voter support. I've been to member functions in three of these states / territories, and the member groups often do it tough and feel as though they want more support from the club in general. They would be stoked to lend support to any Board member prepared to do this.

Finally, such a candidate just needs to use thw power of support in these blogs to build something up. If they just liaise on a weekly basis leading up to the elections with members of these forums then I think they would be very quickly able to build a name and a profile capable of becoming a member.

I just think that this time in our club's history presents a real opportunity to make sure that the individual members can be represented at the very upper echelons of the Board.

Molly wrote



Plant the seed, and something wonderful will grow. Well done Molly. It's little things like that that creates a connection, with a view of bearing fruit in the future.



I believe!

Great effort Molly. I'd like to see the people holding a board position. Imagine how innovative that would look to the public: The people's club.

We need to become innovators again to invigorate this club.

Again Molly, you've obviously done a lot of thinking on this. Great things can come from adversity. Thanks for your food for thought.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I think in principle it's a great idea, but in practise i think the current board is so political that the 'ordinary board member' probably wouldn't get heard.

Hi Steve,

of course you have a valid point. And such a person could easily end up becoming a 'Natasha Stott-Despoja' - plenty of good ideas, but nobody willing to listen to them. It's a risk - but is it a risk worth taking? As Wayne Gretsky once said, 'I never made a shot I didn't take'.

As I see it - almost anyone who we can think of who has been involved with or potentially seeks to be involved with the Board (Elliott, Smorgon, Collins, Brown, Kernahan, etc) liaises with a 'different' sort of supporter - ie the 'insider' type who can make it down to the club at all times, and probably has a fair wad of cash. They probably never really understand the average supporter / member because they would hardly know any such types. As such, I believe that someone from this message board has a great deal of potential to inform the Board about what goes on out here at the grassroots level. And maybe this person can provide some innovative ideas for the club reaching out to Mr and Mrs Average.

Remember - we are trying to reach all types here in order to make this club great again. Segments is what they call these groups down in marketing land. What I am saying is that (for example) an Ahmed Farhour might be great for seeking corporate support. Sticks might be great at providing footy information. Wilson might be great at providing legal information. But where is the specialty on the board regarding the ordinary club member? I think that the answer lies somewehere on these message boards - someone who understands the rank and file and can help the club to connect with them whilst other Board members engage in their own specialties. And in the end, that is what a good Board is about - its about having different areas of specialisation with members able to contribute to his / her area of expertise.

So c'mon - I really think someone could put up their hand. Jarusa? Molesy? NTBlue? BondiBlue? CarltonClem? These are the sort of people that when I read their posts I really believe they have so much to contribute.

Camelboy,

Someone does there research but nothing to be scared about.

Molsey,

Thanks for biting. After all the ranting that has been posted over the last couple of weeks it was great to read some well thought and articulated responses.

This is not a setup at all. I am merely a supporter of the club and want to find out giving our current state of affairs what TC'ers think are the ways in which the club can increase the membership base and get supporters on board.

From what I can see so far, the key is for the club to communicate more fully with members and supporters, as well as developing a sense of community. Also developing and promoting the history of the club and promoting the fact that success both on and off the field are inevitable because we are Carlton.

We are not yet in a position to change the board, but when a challange is made I think that it is important that the members are aware of exactly what they want so when we come to make a decision we are doing it because we see that the challangers are aware of the specfic issues and have a plan to address these so we are not simply perpetuating the current problems. And if a change to the board does not happen, as Jarusa and Molly have stated, the current board can be made aware in a reasonable and clear way, of what the supporters of the club want from it.

I didn't want this tread to turn into a board bashing on, there are already plenty of those. I just want people to stop and think about what they want and ways in which these can be achieved, in a specfic way rather than just simply "sack the board; sack the coach".

Thanks for the indicative support Molly - FWIW I have set aside 5 years in my career plan for something like that and have advised some people of the Club. The comments have come back that I should move from my current role in due course to something with hands-on management of people to broaden the skill set but hey its something I want to do. Main problem is financial - Directorships don't pay and my family aren't in a position to lose my income. Anyway - thats all future stuff....

Jarusa perhaps the time is now to push that button again. We have improved our credentials with CC and the Board and the Blueseum is up & running. A new website that tracks supporters with the OK of the Club could be very useful in this regard and as you know the Club wont do it for resourcing issues. Could we run it off the Blueseum? ie the Blueseum wants to track you all? Could we run it from a special weekly mailout advice / article suggesting / requesting assistance in tracking down Carlton fans, members or not?

Brisvegas - we should talk about this some more. Many posters have pointed out that we dont have a public plan and this confuses us. A commitment to something and an update as to how we're tracking would be something to behold. Add a special Q&A session on the website with Denis pagan on the mistakes and achievements of the year and you can bring back people to the Club too peeved at progress to do anything.

But where there is passion there is interest. Its where the passion dies that we will have a real problem in future. In some respects this week is good because it stirred up the passion. When we can no longer do that we should shut up shop.

Cheers!

M

Well Molsey,

its nice to hear that you are building towards this at some stage. Not soon enough for my liking - but I appreciate your circumstances!!!

Simple equation:

Hope = membership sales


At the moment we are completely hopeless (in all respects).

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

Molly, I am sure that someone will get voted onto a board primarily from an online football community within the next few years. Might not be Carlton, there are plenty of other active club communities.

You look at the last elections and I think from memory there were roughly 2000 votes cast and it was just a handfull of votes that prevented 2 new board members instead of one.

If any of the candidates had engaged the online community it would have been a sure sign to a lot of people that the candidate is a forward thinker and has some understanding of the power and usefullness of the internet.

They would have been elected in a canter IMO.

A popular online participant could conceivably use their popularity to gain a spot on the board. This may not mean the best candidate gets on the board though. The most important thing is that the best people get on the board.

The ideal situation would be one where a substantial number of top quality candidates all use the online community to convey their message and let the punters decide. The days of sending out a small flyer with a couple of paragraphs on it are ending.

Mike,

I would certainly be keen to get the database idea up and running, there have been variants of the idea floating around for some time now. We need a group of us who are interested to workshop the idea and make it as viable as possible. I would be interested to know exactly what the FFA did etc.

The Blueseum should be a demonstration to the club that the Carlton online community can genuinly help the club and therefore be a fillip to the database idea.

Personally, I have really enjoyed my volunteer work for the club. When both my kids are primary school age I will have a lot more spare time and if I don't get back into academia I would love to be more involved with the club in some capacity, not necessarily in a political sense though. But that is a few years down the track.

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