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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:19 am 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:16 am
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Smorgan & the rest of the board hopefully have figured out by now that no matter what they do they are going to be crucified in the media. If they don't change anything their sitting on their hands, if they sacked Pagan last night its a kneejerk reaction, if they think on it and meet again their indecisive. Meawhile the media roll out their trusted old cliche's on political infighting, clubs a rabble etc etc. Guess what: the same cliche's have been used on every wooden spooner and will continue to be used on all future wooden spooners. My only hope is that they thrash out all possible options, make an informed decision (not a decision to appease media) and get on with it.
This talk of how it will affect Pagan if he is retained is rubbish. He has been around footy long enough, is old enough and ugly enough to know this is what happens when you win back to back spoons. I'm sure (unless I've grossly over estimated him) he is profesional enough to get on with the job if retained.
In my opinion this club has been guilty of sitting back and letting things happen since the draft penalties. Some heated discussion or political in fighting whatever you want to call it regarding making the right decisions to get this club back to where it should be is exactly whats needed.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:22 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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born in 72 wrote:
Smorgan & the rest of the board hopefully have figured out by now that no matter what they do they are going to be crucified in the media. If they don't change anything their sitting on their hands, if they sacked Pagan last night its a kneejerk reaction, if they think on it and meet again their indecisive. Meawhile the media roll out their trusted old cliche's on political infighting, clubs a rabble etc etc. Guess what: the same cliche's have been used on every wooden spooner and will continue to be used on all future wooden spooners. My only hope is that they thrash out all possible options, make an informed decision (not a decision to appease media) and get on with it.
This talk of how it will affect Pagan if he is retained is rubbish. He has been around footy long enough, is old enough and ugly enough to know this is what happens when you win back to back spoons. I'm sure (unless I've grossly over estimated him) he is profesional enough to get on with the job if retained.
In my opinion this club has been guilty of sitting back and letting things happen since the draft penalties. Some heated discussion or political in fighting whatever you want to call it regarding making the right decisions to get this club back to where it should be is exactly whats needed.


Great post.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:23 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Ockham's Razor wrote:
Danny

Quote:
sounds very reasonable OR unless
the Board had decided on a set path and began to 'leak' that out to people (ie Kenny, EB, Synbad) and then changed their mind sbecause they were too scared of the ramifications of their decision.

If what you say is right I am fine with the whole thing - quite happy for Denis to stay on in fact.

If the latter though then the board is gutless and right now the last thing we need is a gutless Baord to scared to do what it wants to do for fear of the protest.


It is possible also that a few board members pre-meeting, thought that the decision was over the line and then started leaking to others, got into the meeting last night, realised it wasn't "over the line".

ie They leaked too early when they should have held on :wink:



Current leak has it that there'll be an announcement soon (probably today or tomorrow but hopefully before the B&F).

Pagan gone.

Mitchell almost certainly in but that may not be announced at the same time. Mitchell to be backed by ex Blues. :roll:

Of course they may change their minds again... :lol:

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Last edited by GWS on Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:38 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I don't know if it's been reported elsewhere; but SEN reported this morning that 80-85% of SMS's received at the Station were pro Pagan staying..................surprising, if true.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:43 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Warby wrote:
I don't know if it's been reported elsewhere; but SEN reported this morning that 80-85% of SMS's received at the Station were pro Pagan staying..................surprising, if true.


I don't find it surprising at all. The average supporter is very different to the hardcore spend-all-day-on-an-unofficial-CFC-website supporter.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:45 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Warby wrote:
I don't know if it's been reported elsewhere; but SEN reported this morning that 80-85% of SMS's received at the Station were pro Pagan staying..................surprising, if true.


Doesn't surprise me at all Warby.

Carlton supporters have been through the wringer over the last few years and sacking a coach feels like more agony and chaos to most supporters. We tend to forget that we spend a ridiculous amount of time thrashing out issues in here and that our opinions aren't necessarily representative of the "average" supporter.

I only decided I couldn't continue to back Pagan a short time ago having previously believed that he had little to work with initially and a lot of crap to deal with. The reason I can't support him now is because I don't like what I'm seeing in the way that he deals with the side on matchday. I'm not "anti-Pagan" as such and I don't think I was ever a "Paganite". I just think that now that he's had ample chance to institute good systems and effective plans and I'm not seeing the evidence that that's happened. His matchday tactics are stale and inflexible.

If it wasn't for the time I spend online talking about these things (and the time I spend offline talking about these things to people I've met online) I'd probably still be backing Pagan too.

I might even be inclined to ring a radio station.

Well, maybe not... :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:47 am 
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Rod Ashman

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For all his faults, Pagan has done a lot to rebuild the club.

In our situation the scale of the rebuild required to bring us back is one that wil inevitably burn a coach or two.

If Pagan knew what he was in for when he took the job on Id say he wouldnt have taken it.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:49 am 
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Robert Walls
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Backflips on backflips...

anybody thought we are just a smaller part of the bigger picture???

Hint: what do these words have in common?

Smorgon... trampoline... Beijing.... Olympics...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:51 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Remember, we don't have to pay Pagan the marketing portion of his contract because that part of the contract was never signed.

As for backflips, it's a bit hard to go back on a decision that hasn't even been made. Defies the laws of gravity.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:54 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Why does it need to be seen as a backflip if they needed extra time to make or indeed support a decision made?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:55 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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molsey wrote:
Why does it need to be seen as a backflip if they needed extra time to make or indeed support a decision made?


It doesn't but there have been certain board members wavering which has led to the mixed messages.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:56 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Verbs,

Quote:
Remember, we don't have to pay Pagan the marketing portion of his contract because that part of the contract was never signed


Not sure that is entirely true.

regards
Ockham

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:57 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Ockham's Razor wrote:
Verbs,

Quote:
Remember, we don't have to pay Pagan the marketing portion of his contract because that part of the contract was never signed


Not sure that is entirely true.

regards
Ockham


:wink: Just being mischievious.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Verbs,

Sorry, I should have realised. :lol:

regards
Ockham

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:02 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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GWS wrote:
molsey wrote:
Why does it need to be seen as a backflip if they needed extra time to make or indeed support a decision made?


It doesn't but there have been certain board members wavering which has led to the mixed messages.


Wavering is OK. End result is important.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:03 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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GWS wrote:
molsey wrote:
Why does it need to be seen as a backflip if they needed extra time to make or indeed support a decision made?


It doesn't but there have been certain board members wavering which has led to the mixed messages.


Such is life on a committee. Anyone walking in there expecting a unanimous decision isn't being realistic, definitely when a lot is at stake. Without Big Jack making the decision, something like this won't be decided in an instant. No doubt both the pros and cons were discussed and discussed and discussed and discussed, and will continue to be. Someone will say something in an attempt to influence others, some will be influenced and change their mind. Others won't. And this will continue until a decision is agreed upon by the committee.

Surely people would prefer this to the "old way"??? :?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:07 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I have long been patient with Pagan for all the obvious reasons.

What does concern me in our games is our very basic lack of skills....E.G. our passing to team mates invariably fall short of the player; enabling turnovers....it almost seems to be deliberate that the passes are "a bump ball"; and that the opposition are awake to this failing/habit, and are easily able to whisk the ball away.

I find this to be the MOST frustrating facet of our play.....we get the ball in the open under no pressure; and pass the ball so that it hits the ground in front of the intended team mate; making it at best a 50/50 chance of us retaining the ball.

Am I the only one that's frustrated with this?....it's pretty basic stuff.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Warbler I hear what you are saying but I actually get more annoyed with the passes that constantly get kicked over our heads, the amount of times that it looks like our players are running under the ball due to poor kicking is ridiculous.

One of my main complaints with Pagan is the manner in which we lose, every 4 games 10 goals plus. If I hear one more person say 'we have been competitive this year' I will throttle them. We haven't been, teams that have won by less then 40 points against us have coasted in the latter stages eg Port Adelaide, Hawthorn (twice), I haven't checked but how many games were we really close to winning - the Eagles match comes to mind but apart from the draw that's all that I can think of at the moment.

Finally people that ring/sms radio stations are usually the vocal minority that are opposed to something, the silent majority don't call in because they are contact with what they believe is about to happen

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:16 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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We have been competitive this year.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:19 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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verbs wrote:
We have been competitive this year.


why I ought a!!!!! [shakes fist angrily]

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