This isn't a "sack Pagan", or "Pagan's going to be sacked" thread, so I didn't want to attach it to the "Axe looming" thread.

But, given Pagan has a contract that, let's face it, Carlton cannot afford to pay out, would it be an option to "promote" him to "Head of Football" or "Football Department Manager" or somesuch, and bring in a different coach under him as the senior coach?

This wouldn't be too different to the Parkin/Brittain succession, but with it being imposed on Pagan, rather than offered by Parkin.

The main thing would be to have a cleanout of the assistant positions as well, because that's where the majority of the deadwood is IMO.

And, if it's imposed on Pagan, and he doesn't like it, he can quit, which would mean no payout is necessary, so it would become a win/win.

I'm sure it's been thought of before, but hasn't seemed to be discussed much.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I would think that the club couldn't do that without Pagan's agreement.

ie, Pagan has been hired to a contract as the senior coach. Any alteration of that position would mean a new or amended contract, which both sides would have to agree to.

I'm not contract law expert though.

I don't think we could just change his position to, say, toilet cleaner, and then let him walk of his own accord when he doesn't like it.

Can't we just put him on a restrictive AWA and use the governments new workplace relations laws?

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Congratulations CK95

No, you're right, we couldn't make him the bootstudder without a new contract, as the positions are markedly different.

However, if the positions are worded in a fairly airy-fairy way, so that the positions of "Head of Football" and Senior Coach sound almost identical, then it could be argued that the Club is instigating a succession plan. And if it's done right (We can hope, can't we??), then it would be a big PR win for us to do it like that, and a massive blow to Pagan's PR position if he were to spit the dummy about it, not to mention the damage to his reputation that the last few years have done to his reputation.

I think there should be some way it could be done, the problem would be more a difficulty with just how watertight Denis' contract is.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Jim Wilson's Hun Piece

Sort of comes up in this ..... They don't seem to think denis would wear it.



then ....



This is all very messy .... AGAIN!!

That's why a settlement is ideal.
We wont embarrass Denis by shifting him sideways and he can retire quietly.
Pay him out over 4 years.

(Look at the tax benefits Den!)

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

yes a setttlement would be ideal but i cannot see Denis going quietly into the night

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Are you really serious? By the end of this week Mitchell is gone or Pagan is gone. Mitchell has lobbied behind the scenes and there can only be two consequences for his actions.

Thanks, Uncle John, I don't read the HUN usually.

Wouldn't it be possible to try and force a resignation from Pagan then? Even a resignation with a smaller payout than the full 2 years remaining would be moderately acceptable in my view.

If Mitchell goes, while Elshaugh and Libba stay, then the Board needs to be taken out and shot. Not quickly, either, slowly, and painfully.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Whilst I know little of the man, he doesn't strike me as one to draw attention to himself, grandstand or bitch and moan constantly. I reckon he'd be big enough a man to admit defeat.

I see him as a fighter - think he'll make us pay for the demolition job.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Of course not. He's going to go quietly down the highway to Geelong.

I get that feeling too, however, I wouldn't be suprised if there was a concerted spin campaign on his behalf, even if it isn't instigated by him, or on his orders.

That's why we need a spin campain of our own ready in case. Carlton is shockingly reactive in these matters. It needs to be ready to come out on the front foot.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Yes that would be nice (so long as we do not end up with Bomber).

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Or HeadJob Harvey.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

where do i sign?

if these supposed "business people" come forth and pay out his contract and also bring valuable revenue to the club through sponshorship etc..

and we see the appointment of Mitchell and some carlton greats and get the passion and positive change into the club again

im on board

very good article and if it comes to fruition i would be bloody rapted with it all.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Not Funny !!!! Shudder!!

I really can't see Denis sliding away into the Background and becoming a significant nothing. Surely there would be too much pride to share a role he’s had control over through a few decades. Interesting thought though.

The only way I can see a resignation coming from Denis is if the club force him to sack Trout and Libba and find new assistants. It would also help if Brian Cook called Ron Joseph recently to find out what was going on.

...and it would be a good fit....Geelong needs a major ass kick and Pagan would be just the guy to fo it......

Mind you I think it would be a disaster for Carlton as it does have the possibility of seeing Pagan holding up the cup with Ablett/Mooney/Whoever while we're still on the bottom.......half the Blues supporters will think we've stuffed up again.

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

that must be the half that don't log onto here

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

We're in the goldfish bowl DB

You'ld be surprised the amount of supporters (and members) who I talk to who say.....
"Kouta - great he's got another yera"
"Who's that skinny kid that's no 6"
"Is Marc Murphy playing this week...he started ok but seems to have faded"

...and all I can do is sit there with my mouth open....

never forget half the world's population is below average intelligence

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee