Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Sat Jul 12, 2025 3:10 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Would this be an option?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:00 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 63509
This isn't a "sack Pagan", or "Pagan's going to be sacked" thread, so I didn't want to attach it to the "Axe looming" thread.

But, given Pagan has a contract that, let's face it, Carlton cannot afford to pay out, would it be an option to "promote" him to "Head of Football" or "Football Department Manager" or somesuch, and bring in a different coach under him as the senior coach?

This wouldn't be too different to the Parkin/Brittain succession, but with it being imposed on Pagan, rather than offered by Parkin.

The main thing would be to have a cleanout of the assistant positions as well, because that's where the majority of the deadwood is IMO.

And, if it's imposed on Pagan, and he doesn't like it, he can quit, which would mean no payout is necessary, so it would become a win/win.

I'm sure it's been thought of before, but hasn't seemed to be discussed much.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:09 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 20273
Location: 父 父 父 父 父 父
I would think that the club couldn't do that without Pagan's agreement.

ie, Pagan has been hired to a contract as the senior coach. Any alteration of that position would mean a new or amended contract, which both sides would have to agree to.

I'm not contract law expert though.

I don't think we could just change his position to, say, toilet cleaner, and then let him walk of his own accord when he doesn't like it.

Can't we just put him on a restrictive AWA and use the governments new workplace relations laws?

_________________
Congratulations CK95


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:17 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 63509
bluehammer wrote:
I don't think we could just change his position to, say, toilet cleaner, and then let him walk of his own accord when he doesn't like it.


No, you're right, we couldn't make him the bootstudder without a new contract, as the positions are markedly different.

However, if the positions are worded in a fairly airy-fairy way, so that the positions of "Head of Football" and Senior Coach sound almost identical, then it could be argued that the Club is instigating a succession plan. And if it's done right (We can hope, can't we??), then it would be a big PR win for us to do it like that, and a massive blow to Pagan's PR position if he were to spit the dummy about it, not to mention the damage to his reputation that the last few years have done to his reputation.

I think there should be some way it could be done, the problem would be more a difficulty with just how watertight Denis' contract is.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:21 am 
Offline
Trevor Keogh
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:07 pm
Posts: 760
Location: Noble Park, Vic
Jim Wilson's Hun Piece

Sort of comes up in this ..... They don't seem to think denis would wear it.

Quote:
PAGAN to become director of coaching and bring Mitchell in as match-day coach.


then ....

Quote:
Pagan is expected to flatly reject any offer to become director of coaching.


This is all very messy .... AGAIN!! :cry:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:23 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18076
That's why a settlement is ideal.
We wont embarrass Denis by shifting him sideways and he can retire quietly.
Pay him out over 4 years.

(Look at the tax benefits Den!) :wink:

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:25 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10414
Location: Coburg
yes a setttlement would be ideal but i cannot see Denis going quietly into the night

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:25 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4919
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
I don't think we could just change his position to, say, toilet cleaner, and then let him walk of his own accord when he doesn't like it.


No, you're right, we couldn't make him the bootstudder without a new contract, as the positions are markedly different.

However, if the positions are worded in a fairly airy-fairy way, so that the positions of "Head of Football" and Senior Coach sound almost identical, then it could be argued that the Club is instigating a succession plan. And if it's done right (We can hope, can't we??), then it would be a big PR win for us to do it like that, and a massive blow to Pagan's PR position if he were to spit the dummy about it, not to mention the damage to his reputation that the last few years have done to his reputation.

I think there should be some way it could be done, the problem would be more a difficulty with just how watertight Denis' contract is.


Are you really serious? By the end of this week Mitchell is gone or Pagan is gone. Mitchell has lobbied behind the scenes and there can only be two consequences for his actions.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:27 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 63509
Thanks, Uncle John, I don't read the HUN usually.

Wouldn't it be possible to try and force a resignation from Pagan then? Even a resignation with a smaller payout than the full 2 years remaining would be moderately acceptable in my view.

If Mitchell goes, while Elshaugh and Libba stay, then the Board needs to be taken out and shot. Not quickly, either, slowly, and painfully.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:32 am 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
dannyboy wrote:
yes a setttlement would be ideal but i cannot see Denis going quietly into the night


Whilst I know little of the man, he doesn't strike me as one to draw attention to himself, grandstand or bitch and moan constantly. I reckon he'd be big enough a man to admit defeat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:34 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10414
Location: Coburg
I see him as a fighter - think he'll make us pay for the demolition job.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:38 am 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:48 am
Posts: 2891
dannyboy wrote:
yes a setttlement would be ideal but i cannot see Denis going quietly into the night


Of course not. He's going to go quietly down the highway to Geelong. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:40 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 63509
verbs wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
yes a setttlement would be ideal but i cannot see Denis going quietly into the night


Whilst I know little of the man, he doesn't strike me as one to draw attention to himself, grandstand or bitch and moan constantly. I reckon he'd be big enough a man to admit defeat.


I get that feeling too, however, I wouldn't be suprised if there was a concerted spin campaign on his behalf, even if it isn't instigated by him, or on his orders.

That's why we need a spin campain of our own ready in case. Carlton is shockingly reactive in these matters. It needs to be ready to come out on the front foot.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:41 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10414
Location: Coburg
Yes that would be nice (so long as we do not end up with Bomber).

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:43 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 63509
dannyboy wrote:
Yes that would be nice (so long as we do not end up with Bomber).


Or HeadJob Harvey.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:49 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:29 am
Posts: 6418
Location: Casa Da Carlton - The Place to Be
where do i sign?

if these supposed "business people" come forth and pay out his contract and also bring valuable revenue to the club through sponshorship etc..

and we see the appointment of Mitchell and some carlton greats and get the passion and positive change into the club again

im on board

very good article and if it comes to fruition i would be bloody rapted with it all.

_________________
Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:56 am 
Offline
Trevor Keogh
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:07 pm
Posts: 760
Location: Noble Park, Vic
dannyboy wrote:
Yes that would be nice (so long as we do not end up with Bomber).


Not Funny !!!! Shudder!!

I really can't see Denis sliding away into the Background and becoming a significant nothing. Surely there would be too much pride to share a role he’s had control over through a few decades. Interesting thought though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:05 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4919
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
Wouldn't it be possible to try and force a resignation from Pagan then? Even a resignation with a smaller payout than the full 2 years remaining would be moderately acceptable in my view.


The only way I can see a resignation coming from Denis is if the club force him to sack Trout and Libba and find new assistants. It would also help if Brian Cook called Ron Joseph recently to find out what was going on.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:59 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:41 pm
Posts: 4629
nightcrawler wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
yes a setttlement would be ideal but i cannot see Denis going quietly into the night


Of course not. He's going to go quietly down the highway to Geelong. :lol:


...and it would be a good fit....Geelong needs a major ass kick and Pagan would be just the guy to fo it......

Mind you I think it would be a disaster for Carlton as it does have the possibility of seeing Pagan holding up the cup with Ablett/Mooney/Whoever while we're still on the bottom.......half the Blues supporters will think we've stuffed up again.

_________________
“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:05 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10414
Location: Coburg
that must be the half that don't log onto here 8)

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:17 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:41 pm
Posts: 4629
dannyboy wrote:
that must be the half that don't log onto here 8)


We're in the goldfish bowl DB :wink:

You'ld be surprised the amount of supporters (and members) who I talk to who say.....
"Kouta - great he's got another yera"
"Who's that skinny kid that's no 6"
"Is Marc Murphy playing this week...he started ok but seems to have faded"

...and all I can do is sit there with my mouth open....

never forget half the world's population is below average intelligence :wink:

_________________
“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ByteDanceSpider and 39 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group