In addition to what others have said, this also doesn't make sense considering that we were within a single win of playing in a GF only two years ago, with this exact list (minus a few players we traded out) that you're saying needs to be gutted.

I agree. I don't get the "gut the list" hype? Surely that will make finals even further off. Aren't we better to build. Surely the spine and midfield group are worth persisting with and looking to add better role players?

Gutting the list and going the draft will not work out well for us for reasons already stated.
Even if the coming drafts weren't compromised, history should tell us it didn't work out for us last time, and there's enough evidence with clubs like Geelong that you must strike a balance of draft and trades.

But I draw the line with making us a retirement home for ageing Collingwood players... we did that with Hawthorn not that long ago.
We are not close to a premiership as some may believe.

But no matter which way we go, we need to get the coaching group right.
The current bomb, bomb, bomb guys could even manage to make the '95 team a laughing stock.
Players are not happy and the football department needs a good hard look.
Culture starts with coaches and flows down to the players.... after 4 years, they have failed miserably.

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

Weren't Brisbane miles off it when they brought in Hodge?

I think it depends why you bring in the old timers. If it's just: well he was an important piece of a premiership team, past his best but let's hope he feels rejuvenated by the challenge and becomes our best at his position..
That's bad. If it's: we have some young talent but they're being poorly led by blokes who are too comfortable with losing and need someone to set standards... that's good.

I've no idea how Elliott and Mihocek are as leaders. Elliott seems an introverted type to me, but I don't really know. He'd certainly have plenty to share on small forward craft and goalkicking technique. Mihocek I think could be a great fit if Charlie leaves.

You are talking like they are average players that are done.
Elliot has kicked 47 goals this season.
Mihocek has kicked 32.
They are the Pies 1st and 2nd top goal scorers.
Curnow has only kicked 32 goals this season.

Exactly.
We need to start doing something different and that is bringing in players that know how to win and want to win at all costs.
Elliot and Mihocek are just an example of who we should be looking at, whoever we look at needs to have had premiership success or at least sustained finals success.
I mentioned these two as they have been identified as disgruntled un-contracted players that still have a couple of years left in them.
If we want to change the 'losing' culture, then this is one step in doing that.
Sacking the whole coaching department or blowing the list up, is the epitome of a losing mentality IMO.
And that has not worked for us in 20 years.
It's our version of Stockholm Syndrome, we are happiest when the club makes the above losing decisions because we can justify the losses to ourselves and have some sort of false hope, again.
The worst part is that is this is the way we destroy players through over working them at a young age or they get a form of entitlement as they are needed to win games, not a cog in the machine playing a role.
Time for some change, time to build.

I just question the motivation of Elliott/Mihocek in that situation.
- Why would they be coming to us?
- Why do they want to leave Collingwood?
- Why not Geelong/Hawthorn/Brisbane? Conversely - why not West Coast/Richmond/North?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
They are allegedly not happy with JSOS being offered so much.
How much truth is in that, who knows.
The fact we have Wright possibly gives us an advantage given his reputation and what he just done with the Pies as well as his existing relationship with them.
They already have a premiership, maybe they just want that money and if we can give them that for a wining mentality, that is a win win for me.
Either way, we'd be mad not to have a crack IMO.

That's not a winning mentality

Our golden run in the 2nd half of 2023 was very enjoyable however in reality I think we were a mid range side playing with confidence and a lot of luck. Regardless I doubt that Cripps and Saad in 2026 will be able to recapture their 2023 form and probably the same could be said for Walsh and Charlie.
If we reject a good offer for one of our established big name players (i.e 2026 draft picks and/or younger players) then I think we will regret it - just like I'm sure the Demons wish they traded Oliver and Petracca last year. I don't know of any Richmond fans that regret trading Bolton, Rioli and Baker and they generally seem to be feeling pretty optimistic about where their club is heading.

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There is no footy god

Maybe they’re coming to us because Graham Wright ripped them off on their last deals & they want to get whole.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Every List Committee would be looking to build a list good enough to win a Flag.

Since at least Carlton’s loss to North, if not after our loss to GWS, our List Committee would be looking at the following 10 as players who could play in a Premiership team in 2026-27 or 28-30 , with the right support cast?

B: Weitering
HB O’Farrell
C: Cripps Hewett Walsh Smith Hollands
HF Curnow
F: McKay Williams

But these guys need a good support crew

Could a perfect coach, without TDK and SOS, rely on this next lot to win a flag next year or 2027?

B, Newman Haynes
HB Saad
C. Cottrell
HF Moir
F:

If so, then he’s got the rest of the young up and coming 3rd year players, and Dean,

and his choice of player from the following picks to Trade , could he win a flag?

2025 First rnd compo for TDK pick 8
2025 First rnd pick forcSOS pick 28
2026 First rnd pick
2026 2nd rnd pick

It’s a case of filling gaps and a bit of luck with injury, if the coach isn’t the problem.

I’m sure that’s what’s going on. You have to find a way or you have no hope.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Nah, I can't agree with this negative revisionism that's creeping across the fanbase about 2023. We set a record with 5 consecutive 50+ point wins in a 9-game winning streak. That's a hell of a lot of luck. Our form through the first 16 games of 2024 proved it was no fluke. We won 22 of 28 games, you don't do that with confidence alone.

Since then we've not had a decent bill of health at any time except maybe the Geelong win. In the meantime the game moved away from us as the umpires changed the interpretation of HTB mid-season to the detriment of contested bulls,and then there's the Stand rule... so our moment was lost forever, but it was real. Don't spoil good memories.

I agree that we should not cling on to all the big names, for the reasons above.

Look where Crows were 3 years ago.
Fog was fat n slow
Tilthorpe made of paper
Tex had lost the plot
Then they got Dawson.

Neil Bullen
Rankine
Keays….

Good players from other teams, over a couple years,we have $1.8M to spend.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Best footy this footy club gave us over 2 decades. Better than the Judd era.

…and could be platform where belief of the group was built that set them up to achieve the ultimate.

I don’t think it’s over. We,ve hit a rough patch with injury and perhaps game plan. It’s a journey.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Don’t underestimate the changes in the coaching box.

Covid didn’t help, but it’s taken five years to manoeuvre their way into a decent setup. Murray Davis being the final pin to fall into place.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Curnow would kick 100 goal at Collingwood...

Elliot & Mihocek would become opposition step ladders at the bomb, bomb Blues... and eventually cash out their retirement fund.

I'm all for attracting quality experienced players... just want them to still be around when our window reopens in 3-5 years time.

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

Some great differences of opinion here. Here's hoping you get the opportunity to come on here and say 'I told you so'.

But the Carlton of 2023 is long gone and so has the playing style. The game evolves. Voss needs to prove to Wright that he can evolve too.

Here's what I'd do. By gutting the list, I mean I want these changes made. It's Carlton, so it's unlikely to happen. I'll be happy with just McKay and Silvagni gone to be honest.

 Adam Saad = Delist/Retire
 Alex Cincotta = Delist
 Blake Acres = Trade
 Elijah Hollands = Delist
 Flynn Young = Delist
 Francis Evans = Delist
 Harry McKay = 1st Rnd return
 Jack Silvagni = 2nd Rnd return
 Jaxon Binns = Trade
 Jesse Motlop = Trade
 Mitch McGovern = Delist
 Orazio Fantasia = Delist
 Sam Docherty = Retired
 Tom De Koning = 1st Rnd return

* I doubt Saad can do another pre-season. Hopefully he does the right thing and retires. Pretty sure he'll just jog for his cash though.
* Elijah's departure won't cost us anything. Hopefully the locker is already empty.
* An Acres trade doesn't free up cap space, but you've seen his best. More wingers coming through.
* The club won't get much for Binns and/or Motlop but these players aren't in our best 25.

Harry McKay will not improve at Carlton. You've seen his best here. Trade him while you can and there are buyers.

Backline talls in 2026 are Weitering, Haynes, O'Farrell and Dean. You don't need an injury-ridden JSOS/McGovern on $600k+.

The club needs to get creative. They'll have to bundle selections for the 2026 draft to get Cody Walker - but the ability to trade 2027 selections this year could be the impetus they need to at least pretend they know what they're doing.

Cripps still has two more years left on his contract. He looks like a Carlton-lifer, but I'd see if West Coast wanted a playing mentor for that midfield group. Like McKay - there's no improvement coming from Cripps. You've seen his best.

And in case you're wondering - yes, I'm signing Kemp to a one-year deal. He's only 24.

Happy with all that Doc. I'm disappointed for Cincotta as I thought he might help, but at 28 I don't think we need to carry him.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Adelaide's recruiting has been exceptional. Their recruitment manager Hamish Ogilvie is obviously exceptionally talented.
Even Ben Keays...had a dog of a game last night, but did a brilliant run down tackle playing team football helped them to win it.

Thilthorpe - tick
Dawson/Rankine - tick...exceptional trading for players that meet the needs.
Josh Worrell...pick 29!! wow.

You could go through their list, just exceptional trading and recruiting.
Trading is exceptionally good... Isaac Cumming. Been in the system a while. Got him from GWS. Not one of their top notches, but adds depth, durability so again clever recruiting.

https://www.afc.com.au/news/1803537/ham ... ame-a-crow