I think that'd be a different discussion, 2 firsts was a great way to hedge our bets and given Jaggas injury it would've been the smarter move at the moment.
But until we see what Jagga can do, it's all speculation if it was the right move or not.
His preseason was looking awesome though.

As far as points go we are going ok.

I'll have a beer with you, beets is for recovery the next day.

That's another way to look at it also.
It's going to be a real watch and wait as far as player development goes on who we could've picked instead.
I'm still happy with Jagga, just spewing he couldn't have helped us this year.

What if he doesn't like beer, beet, or juice?

You know me sin.
With fun tickets we can always find happiness
Never a dull moment.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

We’ve played that way since Voss arrived, he clearly thinks it’s the way to win.

He’s had three offseasons to change personal and the gameplan.

I refuse to believe that the list management wouldn’t recruit to serve what the coach needs/wants.

Normally how it works, until of course the ‘change request’ has been handed in.

I dislike inflexible stubborn coaches. You need to move with the times. You need to look at the strengths of the players you have an put a plan in place that makes those players shine.

This type of coaching is a dictatorship. My way or the high way. A Good leader makes others shine, not sets them up to fail.

He has players not in their natural positions. Its ok to try, but seek that players feedback to see if they want are happy and can do it. Makes all the difference.

So it took JSOS to go up to Voss to say can he play backline. Look what has happened since.

Seriously these coaches between them dont have clue. Or the main one in Voss overrules others. Who knows. Its their damn jobs to figure it out and look at each player and just look and ask.

We've traded in players that may have not had the output that is required or remained injury free.
We got Acres (2022), Fantasia (2023). Elijah (2023) and Haynes (2024).
Acres had a couple of good years, Fantasia and Elijah have hardly played and Haynes is looking like the best of them all but he's only going to be good for another year or two max.
Also players have contracts, he can't just come in and wipe the floor of the players he doesn't need.
We've kept Martin, Marchbank, Williams and others because of this.
We've also missed out on some good players like Houston.

As for changing the game plan.
He has been trying to, we seen it in the preseason, we've seen it for a quarter or so nearly every game this year.
The list is the choking point, coupled with a lack of depth and an on-going injury issue.
Our forward line has not been settled for 14 rounds now.

Our list has a lot more holes in it that people realise, is it catastrophic rebuild - no.
But we are missing required players in key areas to make game plan changes - yes.
You could argue we have players that can play those roles to a level, however they have been injured.
You can't tell me our F50 entires and shots on goal would not look a lot better if we had Elijah, Cotts, Harry, Charlie, Durdin, kemp and Williams up and running all season.
You also can't tell me if we had better delivery and foot speed on the wings and in the middle the players there would not also be kicking goals or at minimum drilling targets in F50.

Targeting the coach is the easy way, we've done this for 20+ years because we all think our players are the best.
Some go to other teams and have had a good career, most don't or don't even get traded.
That is the reality.
Would you have Stocker, Fish or Dow back in the side?
3 players that were 'recruited for the coach', I know I wouldn't.

Just look at our VFL side and tell me who would be 1st 18, has been in the system for a few years and has not made the cut on a regular basis or at all.
Drafting and trading is a balance of old and new and it has been pretty much all new = 2-5 years development and it's still a lottery.
So I'd say, he's only been here for 3 preseasons, if we get to 6 and we are not back playing finals, then I'll have an issue with the coach also.
For me I have seen Voss make a lot of good tactical changes this season, I have also seen his change in game plan and ball movement.
I have also seen like last week, senior players miss targets under no pressure, drop marks under no pressure, choose a contest over a player in space.
10 players had a kicking eff 50% or less against the bottom of the ladder side, that is a pretty poor output.
Time to see the forest through the trees, this is bigger than the coach can't coach.

JSOS wanted to be a forward, he then ended up being a utility before Voss.
He asked to stay in the backline and it is working for him.
That is not a coaching issue.

We play players out of position because of injury in most cases.
Look at Lord, in his words, playing where he's required.
This is still an injury vs depth issue.

The other thing that irks me about this line of thought is that people scold the coach for not making positional changes and when he does, then they are being played out of position.
Kemp forward was a good move, so was Ollie in defence, what about Cinc as a shutdown player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hagRb6gMmxo

Salary cap explained.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Thanks Cazz.

Very interesting.
Especially the part about clubs targeting developed players more now because of the compromised drafts.
Clearly something we need to catch up on and what I have eluded to a few posts before this.

Also interesting they said with the Aints in 14th now they will have pick #5 in the draft but with potential F/S and Academy bids it could blow out to #13.

I think I've changed my position now, I'd ask TDK how much would it cost to make him stay and go up to 1.4/5m.
Because our compo pick could end up being in the #20s.
Either that or have a gun player in mind that will neutralise that pick if he goes.

Lets see what Austin has given Vossy

2022: Cerra, Motlop Young Hewett...they helped us improve our midfield out of sight. Young had beaten C.Curnow
2023: Hollands, Cowan, Binns, Acres,Lemmey O'Keefe.....we needed and got wings, got us to a Prelim
2024: Hollands, Moir, Wilson, Fantasia, Monohan, Lord.... got on injury plagued team into the Finals
2025: Smith O'Farrell, Campo, Campo, Charleson, Carroll, Duffy, Evans, White LTI, Young LTI....Believed in group, Passed on Houston, went for kids before Tassie happens....start the season with 13 out injured. We have no depth

Which picks didnt help our cause?

Champion Data tells us Carlton is one of 16 of the 18 teams that go long and direct towards goal. which creates less control, gains territory, gains speed and challenges degense.

WE all know we have more F50 than most teams so we get it in there, but our skills have failed us with execution, or our smalls have failed to keep the ball in.

Austin had already added Durdin, Fogarty and Williams and recruited for Vossy Motlop, Fantasia and LTI's White, Evans

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

According to the HUN we might chase Darcy Cameron (turns 30 in July) if TDK leaves. If correct then this suggests that Wright won't be going down the full rebuild route and might believe this group is capable of contending with a few tweaks to the list.
Not sure how we would get a deal done for Cameron with our current draft picks likely needed for Harry Dean and Cody Walker. The TDK compensation would be paying too much for Cameron with the Pies not having a first round coming back our way.
Interesting times.

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There is no footy god

I'm sure he will. Collingwood looked like they were at full rebuild stage a few years ago when they shipped off Grundy, Treloar, and Stephenson for not much, paying some of their salary, and then finished 17th the next year. 2 years later they won the flag with an aging list. It can turn around fast if you get it right. But the ace was the change from Bucks to McCrae.

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The ace was Nick Daicos.

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There is no footy god

Is Cody Walker that good - asking for a friend.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

We were into Darcy Cameron when he left the Swans, iirc. Pretty sure we ended up with Pitto when he chose the Pies.

I actually answered the question, why do we play the way we do….

I’d like to see players held to account more. Acres as an example wouldn’t be playing this week, having played on and missed from 5 meters, having taken a shot in q2 when he had players free (although maybe he was trying to pass!). Docherty did the same. 2 senior players, playing for themselves and both playing this week. I think selection integrity has been an issue across his tenure.

And yes, we’d look better if we had our best 23 available every week, I think every side would. But it often doesn’t happen, and the better sides have systems in place that allow them to lose players and still win. The GWS game was a prime example, they were missing plenty of their best players and still played their way.

We don’t have the right systems, maybe because we don’t have the right players, or maybe because the coach thinks his gameplan is what wins games.

I don’t think Voss will be a premiership coach, at Carlton or any club. There are also players that wouldn’t be premiership players irrespective of which club they’re at. Ability often limits success.

Great capture. Thanks Cazz.