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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:25 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
bluegirl72 wrote:
robertbb wrote:
kezza wrote:
WOW wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Nathan Buckley thinks our turnover game hasn't changed, our defense is a little better, and we aren't scoring as much from stoppages. He thinks we are about where he had us going into the season, missing out on the 8. So based off that, he thought we would tread water, which translated means not improve. Seems about right.


I thought we would sneak into the eight

I don’t think we will now

Too many other teams seem to have improved

Early in the season so a fair bit to play out

Agree with this.
Other teams have improved and gone past us.
Pretty depressing that after so many crap years and a constant change of coaches we still may not have got it right.
While I am no expert but wouldn't moving the ball quicker stop our forward 50 being so congested?
It is pretty frustrating watching us chip the ball sideways and backwards while the opposition is flooding our forward line. If the ball is turned over then we cannot get back quickly enough to stop them scoring.


Every team chips sideways to "build the ball up". It's part of the modern game and the trigger for it is when the oppositions defence is set up well behind the ball. Moving sideways and backwards spreads their middle of field defence a bit more and opens the ground up for a deeper entry, ultimately (deeper F50 entries are easier to defend - the ground is smaller and you can press up to lock the ball in more easily).

Where it's breaking down is we don't have the foot skills to hit targets, nor do we have the leg speed to run and carry, to get those deeper entries. What ends up happening is the long bomb gets triggered too far out from home, with a contest usually around half back - somewhere around the arc and the centre square. It's a dangerous part of the ground - if we don't mark or get a stoppage, the opponent runs it out with ease and scores out the back.

I think Voss would love to see us run and gun, but he knows we're not equipped to A) score heavily, consistently nor B) defend if we do turn it over (and lord knows, we turn the pill over more often than the Olinda Ferny Creek special team).


We are not equipped to score heavily?
Really???
We have two of the most envied forwards in the league.
Sorry. I don't buy your summation. I don't think Voss likes to run and gun.
We have as much overall talent as st kilda or port or most...but Voss hasn't brought out the best in our players.
He's given some convoluted over worked plan that makes our boys miserable, lacks any dare or flair and is stultifying to watch.
I've never felt so depressed watching even when we barely won those earlier games.
You can make excuses all you like but unless Vossy wakes up and listens to some pretty good feedback...across the media..never mind supporters, we are going nowhere. It's miserable overworked footy.
Hoping for change tonite.
Voss has got this horribly wrong. ( imho).


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:36 pm 
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Robert Walls

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GreatEx wrote:
I'd be surprised if the Carlton locker room is as obsessed with Paddy Dow as this joint.


I'd be surprised if all the incongruous selections/bias/favouritism etc. (which impacts money, exposure, status, self-esteem, opportunity, enjoyment - you know, all those things that make us more contented) weren't an unnecessary distraction

Humans react strongly to things that are (or appear to be) unjust or unfair. It's one of our most sensitive triggers

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:55 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Our problem against the Saints was we were obsessed with the 90 degree switch. Port last night kicked the ball at 45 & at least kept it moving forward

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2023 8:45 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
99prelim wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
I'd be surprised if the Carlton locker room is as obsessed with Paddy Dow as this joint.


I'd be surprised if all the incongruous selections/bias/favouritism etc. (which impacts money, exposure, status, self-esteem, opportunity, enjoyment - you know, all those things that make us more contented) weren't an unnecessary distraction

Humans react strongly to things that are (or appear to be) unjust or unfair. It's one of our most sensitive triggers


Interesting and poignant perspective 99.
I can imagine the euphoria amongst the group if he is selected.
I’m thinking the team feels good about themselves this week.
Selfishness is also a strong emotion. Hang on, the resisters lost….they can blame the umpires for that

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2023 9:25 am 
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Craig Bradley
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bluehammer wrote:
malbi wrote:
We have a player in the seconds that is good at clearances. He has speed and can kick goals too.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
I wonder how he'd go at AFL level? He sounds amazing... We have tried him, right?

Have you watched said player in the 2's?
How's his kicking and creativity when he has ball in hand?
What's his defensive running looking like?


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2023 9:28 am 
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Craig Bradley
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bluegirl72 wrote:

We are not equipped to score heavily?
Really???
We have two of the most envied forwards in the league.
Sorry. I don't buy your summation. I don't think Voss likes to run and gun.
We have as much overall talent as st kilda or port or most...but Voss hasn't brought out the best in our players.
He's given some convoluted over worked plan that makes our boys miserable, lacks any dare or flair and is stultifying to watch.
I've never felt so depressed watching even when we barely won those earlier games.
You can make excuses all you like but unless Vossy wakes up and listens to some pretty good feedback...across the media..never mind supporters, we are going nowhere. It's miserable overworked footy.
Hoping for change tonite.
Voss has got this horribly wrong. ( imho).

Take advice from the media?
Surely you can't be serious.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2023 7:00 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10482
CK95 wrote:
Our problem against the Saints was we were obsessed with the 90 degree switch. Port last night kicked the ball at 45 & at least kept it moving forward

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk


So true. Just to add, when we did switch, we were covered and stopped in our tracks. It really was a horrid game on a couple of points.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2023 10:10 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:

We are not equipped to score heavily?
Really???
We have two of the most envied forwards in the league.
Sorry. I don't buy your summation. I don't think Voss likes to run and gun.
We have as much overall talent as st kilda or port or most...but Voss hasn't brought out the best in our players.
He's given some convoluted over worked plan that makes our boys miserable, lacks any dare or flair and is stultifying to watch.
I've never felt so depressed watching even when we barely won those earlier games.
You can make excuses all you like but unless Vossy wakes up and listens to some pretty good feedback...across the media..never mind supporters, we are going nowhere. It's miserable overworked footy.
Hoping for change tonite.
Voss has got this horribly wrong. ( imho).

Take advice from the media?
Surely you can't be serious.


Amazing what the injection of speed and direction from behind the ball can do for a team.
Saad Docherty and Cincotta all playing together was the tonic.
We could have beaten the Saints if we kicked straight, without Saad and Docherty.
Media look for headlines. It was a 22 point loss after we missed 3 and they took it to the other side and punished us with 3 goals.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2023 10:11 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
SurreyBlue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Our problem against the Saints was we were obsessed with the 90 degree switch. Port last night kicked the ball at 45 & at least kept it moving forward

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk


So true. Just to add, when we did switch, we were covered and stopped in our tracks. It really was a horrid game on a couple of points.


Need for speed.

Chippy Chippy bomb bomb is so predictable and such a slow process.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2023 10:31 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/05/02/ ... n-in-2023/

Will Voss trust his defenders more? They have above avg KPIs.

Will Voss continue with a more attacking game plan?


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2023 2:55 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6363
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:

We are not equipped to score heavily?
Really???
We have two of the most envied forwards in the league.
Sorry. I don't buy your summation. I don't think Voss likes to run and gun.
We have as much overall talent as st kilda or port or most...but Voss hasn't brought out the best in our players.
He's given some convoluted over worked plan that makes our boys miserable, lacks any dare or flair and is stultifying to watch.
I've never felt so depressed watching even when we barely won those earlier games.
You can make excuses all you like but unless Vossy wakes up and listens to some pretty good feedback...across the media..never mind supporters, we are going nowhere. It's miserable overworked footy.
Hoping for change tonite.
Voss has got this horribly wrong. ( imho).

Take advice from the media?
Surely you can't be serious.


Amazing what the injection of speed and direction from behind the ball can do for a team.
Saad Docherty and Cincotta all playing together was the tonic.
We could have beaten the Saints if we kicked straight, without Saad and Docherty.
Media look for headlines. It was a 22 point loss after we missed 3 and they took it to the other side and punished us with 3 goals.

100%


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2023 2:57 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6363
bondiblue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Our problem against the Saints was we were obsessed with the 90 degree switch. Port last night kicked the ball at 45 & at least kept it moving forward

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk


So true. Just to add, when we did switch, we were covered and stopped in our tracks. It really was a horrid game on a couple of points.


Need for speed.

Chippy Chippy bomb bomb is so predictable and such a slow process.

Yep, but when you have no speed you have to try something I guess.
We did and could've won as you said, instead we kicked like AusKick kids.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2023 8:44 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10482
bondiblue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Our problem against the Saints was we were obsessed with the 90 degree switch. Port last night kicked the ball at 45 & at least kept it moving forward

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk


So true. Just to add, when we did switch, we were covered and stopped in our tracks. It really was a horrid game on a couple of points.


Need for speed.

Chippy Chippy bomb bomb is so predictable and such a slow process.


That’s why it is important for us not play Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy and Ed in the middle at once.
Hopefully we learnt the hard way.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2023 9:44 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9630
Location: Australia
Paddycripps wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/05/02/can-last-weekends-easy-kill-help-kick-start-carlton-in-2023/

Will Voss trust his defenders more? They have above avg KPIs.

Will Voss continue with a more attacking game plan?


If they’re injured and not playing it’s a bit difficult for Voss to trust his defenders to execute isn’t it? Of the examples they give of defenders playing well only two have played every game.

It’s a bit of a half-arsed article.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2023 10:06 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
SurreyBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Our problem against the Saints was we were obsessed with the 90 degree switch. Port last night kicked the ball at 45 & at least kept it moving forward

Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk


So true. Just to add, when we did switch, we were covered and stopped in our tracks. It really was a horrid game on a couple of points.


Need for speed.

Chippy Chippy bomb bomb is so predictable and such a slow process.


That’s why it is important for us not play Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy and Ed in the middle at once.
Hopefully we learnt the hard way.


The point you make was proved against WCE. Kennedy was regretfully made a sub, but when he came on last week he smashed the WCE mids and BV mentioned Kennedy ended up with 2nd most clearances for the "game", or close to that. Cerra was outstanding in the middle with Cripps and Hewett.

The addition of Cottrell when fit will change the profile of the team, hopefully placing more weight on a quicker side overall, than stodgy, as we were vs Saints.

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2023 10:09 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
bondiblue wrote:

The point you make was proved against WCE. Kennedy was regretfully made a sub, but when he came on last week he smashed the WCE mids and BV mentioned Kennedy ended up with 2nd most clearances for the "game", or close to that. Cerra was outstanding in the middle with Cripps and Hewett.

The addition of Cottrell when fit will change the profile of the team, hopefully placing more weight on a quicker side overall, than stodgy, as we were vs Saints.


Cottrell has ability and brings things we need like run and pace. However, he certainly hasn't established himself as a best 22 yet


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2023 11:21 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6363
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

The point you make was proved against WCE. Kennedy was regretfully made a sub, but when he came on last week he smashed the WCE mids and BV mentioned Kennedy ended up with 2nd most clearances for the "game", or close to that. Cerra was outstanding in the middle with Cripps and Hewett.

The addition of Cottrell when fit will change the profile of the team, hopefully placing more weight on a quicker side overall, than stodgy, as we were vs Saints.


Cottrell has ability and brings things we need like run and pace. However, he certainly hasn't established himself as a best 22 yet

I'd really like to see Cottrell take a Prestia role for the team.
He has the endurance, speed, toughness and his kicking is getting better and better.
He could be that missing inside piece.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2023 11:29 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

The point you make was proved against WCE. Kennedy was regretfully made a sub, but when he came on last week he smashed the WCE mids and BV mentioned Kennedy ended up with 2nd most clearances for the "game", or close to that. Cerra was outstanding in the middle with Cripps and Hewett.

The addition of Cottrell when fit will change the profile of the team, hopefully placing more weight on a quicker side overall, than stodgy, as we were vs Saints.


Cottrell has ability and brings things we need like run and pace. However, he certainly hasn't established himself as a best 22 yet

I'd really like to see Cottrell take a Prestia role for the team.
He has the endurance, speed, toughness and his kicking is getting better and better.
He could be that missing inside piece.


I like him playing the high HF/extra mid role. He is also a very good goal kicker


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2023 1:07 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

The point you make was proved against WCE. Kennedy was regretfully made a sub, but when he came on last week he smashed the WCE mids and BV mentioned Kennedy ended up with 2nd most clearances for the "game", or close to that. Cerra was outstanding in the middle with Cripps and Hewett.

The addition of Cottrell when fit will change the profile of the team, hopefully placing more weight on a quicker side overall, than stodgy, as we were vs Saints.


Cottrell has ability and brings things we need like run and pace. However, he certainly hasn't established himself as a best 22 yet


He's been out injured all year. Missed the preseason. Has a challenge ahead of him to make best 22, but he had a challenge last year and when he broke into the team, he was Best 22 week in week out and remained there.

I'd back him to be an important part of the puzzle.

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2023 1:08 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

The point you make was proved against WCE. Kennedy was regretfully made a sub, but when he came on last week he smashed the WCE mids and BV mentioned Kennedy ended up with 2nd most clearances for the "game", or close to that. Cerra was outstanding in the middle with Cripps and Hewett.

The addition of Cottrell when fit will change the profile of the team, hopefully placing more weight on a quicker side overall, than stodgy, as we were vs Saints.


Cottrell has ability and brings things we need like run and pace. However, he certainly hasn't established himself as a best 22 yet

I'd really like to see Cottrell take a Prestia role for the team.
He has the endurance, speed, toughness and his kicking is getting better and better.
He could be that missing inside piece.


I like him playing the high HF/extra mid role. He is also a very good goal kicker


Ditto, but if we Hollands needs to be replaced on the wing due to fatigue, then I would rather have Cottrell play wing than LOB.

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