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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:17 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25545
Location: Bondi Beach
Mickstar wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=2279&mode=view

Interesting take from someone intimately involved at the club until recently........According to @99 and @Colourman it's all Teague's fault. Go figure.

Just another opinion I guess, but that's how it looks to me.

Regards Cazzesman


Does that sort of rhetoric still work on today’s generation? “Toughen up and play like a man”


Well whatever else we've tried hasn't worked so may as well give it a go.
Far prefer that than giving him a hug and telling him everything is ok and then presenting him with a participation medal on B&F night.

I remember going back a few years when my son was playing footy in a pretty handy local league.His coach was old school fire and brimstone.Real hot gospellor.The coaches nickname was " Rabs ".That was short for rabid dog................anyhow,the boys had a good year and made the grand final.They were an excellent side actually and went into the game red hot favourites.Anyhow,the game didn't go as planned.The red hot favourites were playing badly and trailed by three goals at half time.Anyhow,the boys trapped into the rooms at half time looking beaten.The talk amongst the supporters was how the coach " Rabs " gonna handle it.Was he gonna go off.Well its fair to say " Rabs " didn't disappoint anyone.Went absolutely ape droppings.Screamed and yelled and called "em the weakest pack of mummies boys spineless sooks.On and on he went .Paint was stripped off the walls.What a faaarking nutter.Worse was to come.After tearing strips off "em he ordered them into the shithouse.That is the only place you weak dogs deserve to be he screamed.Pieces of shit,thats all you are he hysterically screamed.Never seen anything like it to this day.........of course in this day and age you couldn't do it.They would call it abuse or some fact dan nancy boy shit.My son was on the end of it and had no problems whatsoever.Non of the other mums or dads had any problems either.Thought they deserved it extreme as it was,so,times have changed.................Oh,by the way,the boys went out after half time and annihilated there opponents to record a come from behind grand victory.So it worked.And the boys idolised there lunatic coach " Rabs ".........................the moral of the story,well i wouldn't be to concerned about Paddy's feelings.Kids are far tougher and resilient than given credit............i say to Paddy,what doesn't break you makes you stronger.Listen to " The Diesel ".If you do,you will thank him one day.

PS Paddy........at least he didn't order you into the shithouse.

We can't say our players are too nice and need to be more ruthless and then start whining when someone starts having a go at them.


Mickstar, I was a junior coach till 2 years ago.

I wasn't Rabs but I was tough on them.

In the Eastern suburbs of sydney where all the expats live a privelged life whilst the nannies in fur coats (they have no idea what cold is) sat in the cars. I didn't put up with bad behaviour. We had 90 minutes of training per week because of a severe shortage of Aussie Rules grounds, and no time to watse. Not one parent thought I was too tough. My son who was the best player in the team copped most of my heat (planned) and some parents asked me to take some heat off my child and put it on there's. Parents in other teams (because were te biggets club in Sydney) wanted their kids in our team for some old fashioned discipline.

Who knows what kids want?

My best buddy who is a Sports Psych (Swans, Aussie swim team, Aussie Tennis) got his son in my team and his feedback was you can cotton wool kids or you play a straight bat telling them the truth, without abusing them "little shits". Without moving them emotionally you can't create a fire in the belly. Without improving skills you can't execute a plan. Without being emotionally invested, you miss the purpose...bla bla bla.

Who says you can't be tough on players, playing a physical game for keeps these days? Go on...find me one....not a misfit.

Piss off the nancy boys out of Carlon whoever they are and get me some warriors who have the killer instinct and can run all day....Robbo was good. Did we replace him? If so, with who? Dow? Nuff said. HTFU flower There's thousands of kids who would give a left nut to be where you are, and would walk through brick walls.

SOS changed....he sent his kids to OLD Xavs... hung around those new age types OF PARENTS.... I think. Became all sophisticated.

Hodge came from Colac. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:40 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Well said Bondi.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:33 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Thats it Bondi..................kids might be pampered these days but i reckon if you chucked 'em into the slums they would adapt real quick and survive.They are far more resilient than given credit for...................as far as Paddy is concerned i don't think he's naturally tough.I get the feeling he is a real nice kid.Not aggressive by nature.As a matter of fact i think he is too good natured.I also think that hard ruthless edge can be taught,but SLOWLY.Just start slowly,don't overwhelm him with too much too quick.I like you guys am disappointed with Paddy but reckon its too early to give up on him...........i reckon AGRO"S example of the Cats Cam Guthrie is a bewdy.Terrific example of what can be done when given good coaching.Guthrie has improved a long long way.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:56 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Another run of 5 goals against!

Add another to the tally!

At least Bolton was playing the kids (maybe too much).

7 goal streak now!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:48 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Effes wrote:
Another run of 5 goals against!

Add another to the tally!

At least Bolton was playing the kids (maybe too much).

7 goal streak now!

According to my maths teacher, a run of 7 goals constitutes three runs of five goals in the one game!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:51 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3261
bondiblue wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=2279&mode=view

Interesting take from someone intimately involved at the club until recently........According to @99 and @Colourman it's all Teague's fault. Go figure.

Just another opinion I guess, but that's how it looks to me.

Regards Cazzesman


Does that sort of rhetoric still work on today’s generation? “Toughen up and play like a man”


Well whatever else we've tried hasn't worked so may as well give it a go.
Far prefer that than giving him a hug and telling him everything is ok and then presenting him with a participation medal on B&F night.

I remember going back a few years when my son was playing footy in a pretty handy local league.His coach was old school fire and brimstone.Real hot gospellor.The coaches nickname was " Rabs ".That was short for rabid dog................anyhow,the boys had a good year and made the grand final.They were an excellent side actually and went into the game red hot favourites.Anyhow,the game didn't go as planned.The red hot favourites were playing badly and trailed by three goals at half time.Anyhow,the boys trapped into the rooms at half time looking beaten.The talk amongst the supporters was how the coach " Rabs " gonna handle it.Was he gonna go off.Well its fair to say " Rabs " didn't disappoint anyone.Went absolutely ape droppings.Screamed and yelled and called "em the weakest pack of mummies boys spineless sooks.On and on he went .Paint was stripped off the walls.What a faaarking nutter.Worse was to come.After tearing strips off "em he ordered them into the shithouse.That is the only place you weak dogs deserve to be he screamed.Pieces of shit,thats all you are he hysterically screamed.Never seen anything like it to this day.........of course in this day and age you couldn't do it.They would call it abuse or some fact dan nancy boy shit.My son was on the end of it and had no problems whatsoever.Non of the other mums or dads had any problems either.Thought they deserved it extreme as it was,so,times have changed.................Oh,by the way,the boys went out after half time and annihilated there opponents to record a come from behind grand victory.So it worked.And the boys idolised there lunatic coach " Rabs ".........................the moral of the story,well i wouldn't be to concerned about Paddy's feelings.Kids are far tougher and resilient than given credit............i say to Paddy,what doesn't break you makes you stronger.Listen to " The Diesel ".If you do,you will thank him one day.

PS Paddy........at least he didn't order you into the shithouse.

We can't say our players are too nice and need to be more ruthless and then start whining when someone starts having a go at them.


Mickstar, I was a junior coach till 2 years ago.

I wasn't Rabs but I was tough on them.

In the Eastern suburbs of sydney where all the expats live a privelged life whilst the nannies in fur coats (they have no idea what cold is) sat in the cars. I didn't put up with bad behaviour. We had 90 minutes of training per week because of a severe shortage of Aussie Rules grounds, and no time to watse. Not one parent thought I was too tough. My son who was the best player in the team copped most of my heat (planned) and some parents asked me to take some heat off my child and put it on there's. Parents in other teams (because were te biggets club in Sydney) wanted their kids in our team for some old fashioned discipline.

Who knows what kids want?

My best buddy who is a Sports Psych (Swans, Aussie swim team, Aussie Tennis) got his son in my team and his feedback was you can cotton wool kids or you play a straight bat telling them the truth, without abusing them "little shits". Without moving them emotionally you can't create a fire in the belly. Without improving skills you can't execute a plan. Without being emotionally invested, you miss the purpose...bla bla bla.

Who says you can't be tough on players, playing a physical game for keeps these days? Go on...find me one....not a misfit.

Piss off the nancy boys out of Carlon whoever they are and get me some warriors who have the killer instinct and can run all day....Robbo was good. Did we replace him? If so, with who? Dow? Nuff said. HTFU flower There's thousands of kids who would give a left nut to be where you are, and would walk through brick walls.

SOS changed....he sent his kids to OLD Xavs... hung around those new age types OF PARENTS.... I think. Became all sophisticated.

Hodge came from Colac. :wink:


....and Paddy grew up on a farm :wink:

Im with Diesel and you. Tough love.

The challenge doesn’t just sit with the player, sits with the club and support team. The club and player has made an investment....need to make it work or trade it for something that gives a better return.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:45 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Sombrero wrote:
Effes wrote:
Another run of 5 goals against!

Add another to the tally!

At least Bolton was playing the kids (maybe too much).

7 goal streak now!

According to my maths teacher, a run of 7 goals constitutes three runs of five goals in the one game!



Bit like a triple hattrick

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:55 am 
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Bruce Doull
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For some insight into the sort of coach I'd like Teague to be, I recommend the (surprisingly insightful) doco on Amazon about Justin Langer and the Aussie cricket team.

Seems to have the right mix of passion and agro, and we could do worse than having someone like him give a bit of a motivational session. Or maybe Gilly would be better, being a good Carlton man.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:28 am 
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Banned

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Teague wants his players to be brave, take the game on and never lose contests.... bit much like he played.

Manufactured agro doesn't work with this bloke if he shows agro the whole club will know it so its pointless.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:00 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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47% win loss ratio about what he had last year


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:20 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9995
Location: Australia
Paddycripps wrote:
47% win loss ratio about what he had last year


Given the fact that he’s only had one pre season to work with the full list and the handicapped nature of training this entire season it’s a reasonable result. Most coaches would take a couple of years to install their system, then adjust a few times for the things they had wrong.

I’ll judge Teague on what we’re playing like in 2022. You have to give him room to make mistakes and employ corrections, as painful as that process will be to all of us.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:02 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
wat is saving teague is winning 3 games that we could have lost easily cats,freo,ess on the other side beaten port and swans had 4 good players out just fell in.David defence this is his first full time year as coach ,bucks,horse little toad clarkson,truckload of experience


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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jamespul65 wrote:
wat is saving teague is winning 3 games that we could have lost easily cats,freo,ess on the other side beaten port and swans had 4 good players out just fell in.David defence this is his first full time year as coach ,bucks,horse little toad clarkson,truckload of experience



What?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:53 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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:D He's right, though, James - a bit of care in your writing style would be appreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:51 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Paddycripps wrote:
47% win loss ratio about what he had last year

2019 11 games 6 wins - 54.5%
2020 15 games 7 wins - 46.6%


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Sidefx wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
47% win loss ratio about what he had last year

2019 11 games 6 wins - 54.5%
2020 15 games 7 wins - 46.6%


Ergo, if we win next two he'll be a shade under 53% which is Not an improvement on last year.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:15 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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CC1961 wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
47% win loss ratio about what he had last year

2019 11 games 6 wins - 54.5%
2020 15 games 7 wins - 46.6%


Ergo, if we win next two he'll be a shade under 53% which is Not an improvement on last year.

Yep. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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He would only effectively match last year if we won next 4
I.e. 2 finals and lose Prelim = 11 wins from 20 = 55%

Which in anyone's estimation would be considered a 'great' result but is in actuality still Not an improvement on last year in Win/Loss terms!

So for Teague to show Marked Improvement he's gonna have to take us all the way: Win next 6, Win the Flag
Then he gets to an admirable 59%

Lol

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Last edited by CC1961 on Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:32 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25545
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
CC1961 wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
47% win loss ratio about what he had last year

2019 11 games 6 wins - 54.5%
2020 15 games 7 wins - 46.6%


Ergo, if we win next two he'll be a shade under 53% which is Not an improvement on last year.

Yep. :thumbsup:


You guys are math heads.
Glad to know you.
Thanks.

Its still his first full season, and that too is compromised by Covid.

I have to judge him end of next year, assuming there's some normality to run a 'normal' national competition.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:32 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Posts: 1291
bondiblue wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
Bondi,

The comparison between SPS (and Dow and Fisher) and Cotchin was about how they were coached and developed....

Cotchin wasn't left to rot in the backline for 25 games or more... besides that, SPS hasn't been very good in the backline... our backline has gone backwards under Teague, and you need a top notch backline to do any good at the pointy end of the year.

Cotchin exploded in year 4, this SPS's and Fisher's 4th year...

Check the highlights of SPS's game against the Dogs, don't compare him to Cotchin, tell me what you think...

Just as an aside, Thomas Dow has played more midfield time (he played exclusively in the midfield, not the back or forward half) in his 2 games for the Tigers, than Paddy has since Teague took over... I know Paddy has been injured this year however there were 11 games last year, and Paddy played round 1 this year...


You don't have to prove your point to me.
I understand where you are coming from.
He had 2 big games with a lot of average ones, but he was only 19 and 20.

I did have a look at that clip of all his possessions. Out of respect to your request for an opinion, plus I love his game that day, plus we win.
I know what he can do, but I'm looking for the other stuff that he doesn't do that was said about him pre draft.

1. He had a BOG game = Positive. Negative is that he didn't show that form again in the midfield. Blame it on age.
2. He won contested balls = Positive. I thought the usually mad attack on the ball, the frenzied desperation to win contested ball by Dogs was missing this game.
3. He received a lot of ball and distributed effectively. No one took an interest to play on him, even when he had 23 possesssions and Healy makes the remark too.

I don't mind those dinky small kicks of his because he hits up targets in congestion: an underestimated skill. Furthermore, I know he can kick long and straight, and posters don't gve him credit for that.

BUT

The most important thing I've looked for every game he has played, and in this game is the Express Pace he was said to possess in his Pre Draft Profile. In this clip there is not one instance he shows any speed by foot. And, my fear is that if he's played close, he hasn't got the speed to make things happen. Dow has the speed and doesn't make it happen. Not once did I see speed in his midfield work, Not once did I see him make play, give it off and make the second play. He gives it off, dusts his hands, and is happy with that.

At the 3.13 min mark he does get the ball back after he made the first play. BUT he gets the ball to Walsh a metre ahead, Walsh goes sideways to Kreuzer who handballs to Gibbons then the 4th link of the play was back to SPS. SPS didn't make the play. He didn't sprint to make the 4th. The ball woul've travelled 10-15 minutes from his first handball to his receive. So I can't call that anything but followed the play and happpened to be in the right place because he didn't have to sprint.

I'm looking out for weaknesses, and see if they are fixable, coachable, then next season see if they have developed, sharpened their sword.

He plays like an inside mid. Has success against midgets, but how will he play against bigger mids (most are) like Fyfe and Mundy (every team has a couple), and the answer is, perhaps because he was still young, skinny, undeveloped, he struggled against bigger bodied mids.

I love him. I love Dow. I love the boys we drafted and gave us hope, but I haven't pencilled them into my first 18 in 2021. I did, along with Willo, now I have none of them in my team, until they show some real highlights consistently to prove they are will be elite.

I'm not writing him off, but maybe Teague and co see the same weaknesses.

Diesel would tell him to toughen up, as he did about Dow today.


Bondi, thank you for taking the time...

I’m assuming the highlighted parts are about SPS...

SPS had 35 possessions and was rarely caught on a fast track, he’s an inside/outside creative mid who is a quick thinking, instinctive, creative, natural footballer with excellent evasive skills.. you can be fast with your footy brain....

Bontempelli and Dunkley are rather large midfielders....

In the 11 games under Bolton in 2019 (playing as mid) he averaged 19.7 disposals per game and 5.3 tackles per game, as a young mid (in a young midfield) still learning his craft in a team that won just one game during that period...


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