Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Mon Jul 07, 2025 2:53 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5310 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39 ... 266  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:36 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18061
CK95 wrote:
I wonder if Harry could do with some extra curricula one on one coaching sessions with a bloke like W Carey.


Probably best to wait until the partners are out of the hub.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:48 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 14797
Location: Sydney
:lol: was trying to think of a quip along those lines


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:00 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 35973
Location: Half back flank
OK well played :lol:

But we did it with Fev in the 2000s with some success IIRC. Maybe Teague & Carey are still mates from their North days, not sure.

_________________
#DonTheStash


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6767
jamespul65 wrote:
regarding our coaches ,how does John Barker survive we need to add someone from a successful club to help teague with ideas .

You do realise that Teague was that person.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:44 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10624
Blue Vain wrote:
CK95 wrote:
I wonder if Harry could do with some extra curricula one on one coaching sessions with a bloke like W Carey.


Probably best to wait until the partners are out of the hub.


:lol: :clap:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:34 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25550
Location: Bondi Beach
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Its time the young mids we drafted to build the club around for the future are actually played there.
Fisher is rotting away in a FP.
Gibbons is wasted as a forward, he won 2 liston medals as a MID.
Cunningham got a chance and killed the Scum then put straight back in our forward line. Wasted
SPS is dying a slow football death as a HB. Break out games last season as a MID now wasted down back.
Kennedy clearly needed to play yesterday and has improved with more OPPORTUNITY as a Mid. Wasted playing scratch match.
O'Brien played really well on the wing late last season. Wasting away in scratch matches.
Martin needs to go through the midfield much more.
Walsh has been super on the wing BUT he is elite as an on baller/clearance player.
Stocker played last season BUT as a HB not the midfield bull we drafted him for.
Im sick of seeing the same 4 guys in the middle not getting it done.
We need more rotations Inc Cripps.
Murphy should be cleared out of the centre square and never to return. Has he actually ever won a centre clearance???
I can't remember the last time i saw him streaming away with the ball moving it forward from a centre bounce.
Setterfield needs to be rotated forward more coz he can actually mark it well and has good forward craft.
We have the bloody Midfield talent it's about time we used them there and not try to re invent the wheel.
Im just not sure what Teague is trying to achieve.


I've been pushing as hard as anyone to get the youngsters into the middle but you've been a bit creative in this post Deano.
Firstly Cuningham wasn't banished forward after the Essendon*** game. He played midfield the week after and as he does, he failed to get near the ball. He's our most inconsistent player.
Stocker doesn't have the endurance to play midfield and we should accept that he may never have. Does he want it enough? I have my doubts.
Unless he can continue to improve his athleticism, Kennedy will be a stop-gap at best and I doubt O'Brien has the genuine AFL qualities required.

I'm all for rotating Fisher and Walsh through the middle more but I think it will be free agency that will take us forward.
I'd target Zac Williams and perhaps Jack Viney as free agents and consider offering our first round pick for Papley again. We have the key position strength but we cant waste another year "hoping" our young mids will step up and our emerging small forwards are almost non-existent. Let's get some certainty in and if our youngsters are good enough to tip them out, good and well.


So Cuners was banished after 1 poor game. If our coaches can't find a way to get the lad to replicate his great showing against Ess then they're just as inconsistent as the player.


I'm a Cuningham fan, but his detractors are correct that his body doesn't hold up, he doesn't find enough ball, and as you point out, he's done it once this year against Bumbers*, which supports the point made about his lack of consistency.

His pace and skills are unquationably desirable.

I really thought this year was the year he makes the big step up, but this far, not to be.

I still have high hopes, but I'm not keen on gifting games. Maybe that's the position of the MC too.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:35 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25550
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:

I've been pushing as hard as anyone to get the youngsters into the middle but you've been a bit creative in this post Deano.
Firstly Cuningham wasn't banished forward after the Essendon**** game. He played midfield the week after and as he does, he failed to get near the ball. He's our most inconsistent player.

This. Its up to Cuningham to make a stand and get that nut more than he has

Stocker doesn't have the endurance to play midfield and we should accept that he may never have. Does he want it enough? I have my doubts.
Unless he can continue to improve his athleticism, Kennedy will be a stop-gap at best and I doubt O'Brien has the genuine AFL qualities required.

He's 20yo. Who knows what's up. I doubt he's not capable. It seems obvious Teague has held back the kids. Given first year players like Honey, Philp and Cottrell a taste, but has made all the other kids work hard on their game. Maybe Stocker is in that group. He started the preseason impressive last year. Impressed as a backman, but the rest we don't really know.

I'm all for rotating Fisher and Walsh through the middle more but I think it will be free agency that will take us forward.

Topping up and displacing / replacing existing was always the plan, and so it remains.

I'm not a huge fan of Jack Viney anymore. I think he's tenacious but a bit small for mine, and injury prone because of this, and we have Fisher. I'm probably wrong.


I'd target Zac Williams and perhaps Jack Viney as free agents and consider offering our first round pick for Papley again. We have the key position strength but we cant waste another year "hoping" our young mids will step up and our emerging small forwards are almost non-existent. Let's get some certainty in and if our youngsters are good enough to tip them out, good and well.


Questions. I'm sure Williams is a target as is Papley.

What cost would you be prepared to pay to get them?
Is the cost of not getting them a step backwards?
Conundrum?

Everyone has a price. Huge upfront (war chest) for Williams. ie whatever it takes?
Papley may need 2 first rounders?


As we know Viney and Williams are free agents. The cost will be what we manipulate it to be. If we offer them a 2 year contract at 850K (front ended) with an agreement to have a reduced contract in years 3 and 4, I doubt the offers will be matched. Williams wants midfield time. He will be attracted more by opportunity than money IMO. Viney knows the Dees are tossing up between him and Brayshaw as their second inside mid going forward. Brayshaw is 2 years younger. Most players want opportunity and certainty over a quick dollar. It's all about how you sell the deal to the player and secondly, how you facilitate the transaction. (See Jack Martin)

If we can score Williams and Viney and still keep all our picks to possibly chase a Papley, it's a no brainer for me.
Yes Dow, SPS and the others will have opportunities but it will be based on performance. We cant sit back and hope our midfielders take a step forward next year. Look at the Brisbane model with Lachie Neale and Charlie. They were forced to pay with draft picks. Hopefully we can get there with free agents. It's our time now to compete. We cant keep sitting on our hands hoping.


:thumbsup: The time is now to strike. Now is the time. Fingers crossed.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:37 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25550
Location: Bondi Beach
Donstuie wrote:
The biggest issue I see still is that we're a group of very good players, not a team of them.

Collingwood over the weekend had one of their weakest possible teams, but because they play as a team they were able to still play the way they have trained even with change in personnel. Hawthorn, as shit as they now are, were able to overrun is with a team of VFL-level plodders because they played as a team. Their players knew that if they made a mistake, there would be someone to back them up who knew what to do, and were prepared. They all knew what to do, no matter the situation.

In our case, we have players that have plenty of talent to burn, and if they're holding the ball in their hands without pressure can do all the footy things well. But it's the inbetween time where we fall apart, where your ability to produce your best depends on what your teammates are doing. Playing the game against actual opposition doesn't give you the chance to do what you can do at training, or taking shots on an empty oval. So it falls on the guys around you to create the conditions where you can do that.

I picture it like the creation of baseketball, where they talk about being good at basketball, "as long as we don't have to run, or jump, or dribble". Our players are good at footy, as long as they don't have to shepherd, or run back in defence, or not bump into each other when going for a mark.

Good teams are smart and well-trained enough to execute a strategy based on their situation "Our teammate is under pressure in the back pocket, so we execute strategy A, GO.", and each player assumes their role.

Our guys seem to execute only the next action "My teammate is under pressure in the back pocket, I'd better do X...he handballed to me, so I'd better do Y" but they're not in sync. They're a group of talented guys doing individual things, hence why we get caught out of position all the time.

What's the solution? Leadership, concentration, commitment, repetition, adaptability, resilience. We've lacked so much in these areas for so long now, and Teague's biggest challenge will be breaking those old habits.


Great post. Food for Thought.

Well thought out Don. I think you may be onto something.
After all they are a bunch of guys bought together over a 5 year period.
They didnt all come at the same time.
Covid hasn't helped our guys who needed to learn more about cohesion than Hawks, Pies you mention :thumbsup:

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:20 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
bondiblue wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Its time the young mids we drafted to build the club around for the future are actually played there.
Fisher is rotting away in a FP.
Gibbons is wasted as a forward, he won 2 liston medals as a MID.
Cunningham got a chance and killed the Scum then put straight back in our forward line. Wasted
SPS is dying a slow football death as a HB. Break out games last season as a MID now wasted down back.
Kennedy clearly needed to play yesterday and has improved with more OPPORTUNITY as a Mid. Wasted playing scratch match.
O'Brien played really well on the wing late last season. Wasting away in scratch matches.
Martin needs to go through the midfield much more.
Walsh has been super on the wing BUT he is elite as an on baller/clearance player.
Stocker played last season BUT as a HB not the midfield bull we drafted him for.
Im sick of seeing the same 4 guys in the middle not getting it done.
We need more rotations Inc Cripps.
Murphy should be cleared out of the centre square and never to return. Has he actually ever won a centre clearance???
I can't remember the last time i saw him streaming away with the ball moving it forward from a centre bounce.
Setterfield needs to be rotated forward more coz he can actually mark it well and has good forward craft.
We have the bloody Midfield talent it's about time we used them there and not try to re invent the wheel.
Im just not sure what Teague is trying to achieve.


I've been pushing as hard as anyone to get the youngsters into the middle but you've been a bit creative in this post Deano.
Firstly Cuningham wasn't banished forward after the Essendon**** game. He played midfield the week after and as he does, he failed to get near the ball. He's our most inconsistent player.
Stocker doesn't have the endurance to play midfield and we should accept that he may never have. Does he want it enough? I have my doubts.
Unless he can continue to improve his athleticism, Kennedy will be a stop-gap at best and I doubt O'Brien has the genuine AFL qualities required.

I'm all for rotating Fisher and Walsh through the middle more but I think it will be free agency that will take us forward.
I'd target Zac Williams and perhaps Jack Viney as free agents and consider offering our first round pick for Papley again. We have the key position strength but we cant waste another year "hoping" our young mids will step up and our emerging small forwards are almost non-existent. Let's get some certainty in and if our youngsters are good enough to tip them out, good and well.


So Cuners was banished after 1 poor game. If our coaches can't find a way to get the lad to replicate his great showing against Ess then they're just as inconsistent as the player.


I'm a Cuningham fan, but his detractors are correct that his body doesn't hold up, he doesn't find enough ball, and as you point out, he's done it once this year against Bumbers*, which supports the point made about his lack of consistency.

His pace and skills are unquationably desirable.

I really thought this year was the year he makes the big step up, but this far, not to be.

I still have high hopes, but I'm not keen on gifting games. Maybe that's the position of the MC too.


He teases.

As a small forward he doesn't hit the scoreboard quit enough. I know it's not all about goals every week but even still I think he needs to snag a few more as a small forward.

And as a midfielder he doesn't get it enough also.

Personally I would leave him in the middle for an extended run. Dusting him after 1 bad game is not the answer, though I get at that stage the coach was thinking finals and the need to win over the alternative of persisting with players in certain roles which carries some element of risk.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:06 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 2488
Location: Princess Park
We have a very taxing game plan, we dominate but not good enough to put scoreboard pressure.

Hard to play at that intensity for 4 qtrs, it's inevitable the opposition will get a run on and then we are screwed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:07 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 33618
Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED
I like to think that if we finally get rid of John Barker then everything will magically be alright.

But reality is that (in addition to Barker getting the arse...seriously FFS) we need some @#$%&! winners in that coaching box.

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:45 pm 
Offline
Garry Crane

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:18 am
Posts: 262
A good coach Should be able to see some things aren’t working and change them example is sps not playing well then move him don’t just leave him there till he has no confidence left a good example is Longmire with nick Blakey struggled to moved into defence


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:49 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10624
Starting to worry.
Watching the Freo kids and Sydney kids and, and, allowed to play midfield while ours are lining up as defensive forwards or even worse lockdown defenders, really, really, really has me concerned. Hope I’m wrong but watching our kids lack confidence to run and take the game on, is the final nail.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:58 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:04 pm
Posts: 48555
Location: Prison Island
CARLTON’S COSTLY QUARTERS 2020

ROUND 3 v Geelong, Q4: -33 points

ROUND 2 v Melbourne, Q1: -32 points

ROUND 9 v Hawthorn, Q2: -32 points

ROUND 1 v Richmond, Q1: -31 points

ROUND 14 v Collingwood, Q4: -26 points

ROUND 15 v GWS Giants, Q4: -24 points

ROUND 11 v West Coast Eagles, Q3: -24 points

ROUND 5 v St Kilda, Q1: -20 points

ROUND 12 v Fremantle, Q1: -19 points

_________________
*(grow - fun - gah) :fight:

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:10 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 33618
Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED
That is absolutely damning.

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:30 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 12665
Location: Brisbane
Donstuie wrote:
That is absolutely damning.


Open the floodgates!

_________________
THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:22 am 
Offline
formerly King Kenny
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076
grrofunger wrote:
CARLTON’S COSTLY QUARTERS 2020

ROUND 3 v Geelong, Q4: -33 points

ROUND 2 v Melbourne, Q1: -32 points

ROUND 9 v Hawthorn, Q2: -32 points

ROUND 1 v Richmond, Q1: -31 points

ROUND 14 v Collingwood, Q4: -26 points

ROUND 15 v GWS Giants, Q4: -24 points

ROUND 11 v West Coast Eagles, Q3: -24 points

ROUND 5 v St Kilda, Q1: -20 points

ROUND 12 v Fremantle, Q1: -19 points


The flip side is we out play sides for 3/4s, but don’t get the scoreboard reward of late.

We’re not far away. Build up our size in the kids, and we will see a difference.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:36 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm
Posts: 15848
Not sure what to think. Last night we generated 9 more inside 50s than a star studded midfield, and set up well behind the ball.

So what is it? Our midfield? Our forward line? The quality of ball delivered I50?

I don't think we're far off. It's just a couple of outsiders. Like someone posted last night....once we start losing the clearances like we did in the last quarter we get torched, hence the runs of goals.

Forward line with Charlie, and if we can land Papley, sorts itself out in my opinion.

_________________
"I had to eat"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:16 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Not sure what to think. Last night we generated 9 more inside 50s than a star studded midfield, and set up well behind the ball.

So what is it? Our midfield? Our forward line? The quality of ball delivered I50?

I don't think we're far off. It's just a couple of outsiders. Like someone posted last night....once we start losing the clearances like we did in the last quarter we get torched, hence the runs of goals.

Forward line with Charlie, and if we can land Papley, sorts itself out in my opinion.

Charlie keeps getting mentioned.
H has a rooted knee and hasn't played footy for two years. He will come back next year with a big doubt in his own mind as to whether he can stay un-injured.
He may not ever be able to jump like he could if the injured knee is on his take-off leg.
Even if he is OK, he will need a season to get his confidence back.
He is no guarantee.
Papley will cost too much.

_________________
Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:35 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Not sure what to think. Last night we generated 9 more inside 50s than a star studded midfield, and set up well behind the ball.

So what is it? Our midfield? Our forward line? The quality of ball delivered I50?

I don't think we're far off. It's just a couple of outsiders. Like someone posted last night....once we start losing the clearances like we did in the last quarter we get torched, hence the runs of goals.

Forward line with Charlie, and if we can land Papley, sorts itself out in my opinion.

Charlie keeps getting mentioned.
H has a rooted knee and hasn't played footy for two years. He will come back next year with a big doubt in his own mind as to whether he can stay un-injured.
He may not ever be able to jump like he could if the injured knee is on his take-off leg.
Even if he is OK, he will need a season to get his confidence back.
He is no guarantee.
Papley will cost too much.


Agree with that especially the Charlie part. We don't know if we will get the same athletic Charlie or a somewhat broken down Charlie. Or if he even makes it back at all.

Also agree we aren't far off. A couple of outside mids would be nice.
However, our problems run deeper than that. A couple of outside mids and a bit more class may help us get over some of these games against mid range opposition which we are currently dropping.
They wont though help us much against the top 4 in big games when the pressure cooker goes up to extreme levels.
The reason is our structures are all wrong. Our game plan appears to be too one dimensional. There is no plan b.
The way our mids deliver to our forwards is terrible. The was our forwards set up is terrible. Our goal kicking is terrible. The top teams will still break us until we fix these and we will ultimately fail.
Sheer class can only get you so far. Look at GWS. On paper have had the best list for the past 5 years but only have one grand final and a couple of prelims to show for it.
We also need to play our players to their strengths too. Has been said enough, but SPS is not a defender. He is a classy mid with quality ball use. Should be used further up the ground.
Whilst I'm not a Dow fan, he needs to play where he was drafted and at least be given an opportunity to succeed. Rather than being left to rot in the forward half. Maybe then he will get a bit more confidence in himself and show why he was so highly rated.
Yes Fisher has some qualities as a small forward, but he is another who is a mid first. He can go forward for a rest and shown that he can impact the scoreboard, but needs to spend more time in the middle.
Teague may bemoan the fact that we do not have enough insdie/outside mids, but those 3 mentioned are capable of playing that inside/outside mid role, yet he refuses to play them there.
I remember the Hughes/Rogers era where we'd draft flankers in the hope they develop into mids. Under SOS, we have drafted mids and are trying to turn them into flankers and at the same time bemoaning the lack of mids.
Makes no sense.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5310 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39 ... 266  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group