Whether I buy a membership, sponsor a player, go to every game, watch every training session or pick up the players towels, does that give me the right to pick apart a players life? Is it forgotten here that players are humans & prone to mistakes? Don’t get me wrong, I still expect an elite attitude & professional approach, but if the coach is satisfied (picking them in the side), why shouldn’t I be?

I’ll ask again………..what is wrong with supporting the players we have?

Talking about lala land, lets get out of the 80’s. If you don’t like someone, you just can’t off load them to StKilda & buy a better player, those days are gone. I’m just a supporter with no official or un-official ties to the club. All I want to see is the team giving it their all. If we lose, so be it. Considering where the club has come from over the last couple of years, I can see some light at the end of the tunnel (at least we didn’t give away high draft picks for dud hasbeens this year). Pride in the performance is good enough for me. If I want to shitcan my side, I’ll support the Tigers.

Just on this unaccountable and Koutoufides issue, just a question, do we think we judge Kouta harshly on this, actually, do some of us judge Kouta harshly on this because he remains a midfielder, and we dont have many replacement midfielders?

Was thinking yesterday of past greats like Kernahan and I don't remember him chasing down his opponent that often. Fev does it once or twice a year and we all get excited because he is following team rules. Kouta's man in the moden game gets the ball and racks up 20 possies to Kouta's 25 and we say he is unaccountable.

Are we harsh on Kouta in comparison to past older greats or are we harsh on him because he is a midfielder? IF he was a forward would we say the same thing? If its because he is a midfielder then isnt he filling a hole for us because we havent been able to replace him, and therefore should give him a break because really at his age we should be finding a spot for him up forward?

Does this make sense to anyone?

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Ill support the players that support my club.

Thats fair isnt it????
Have i not supported Wiggins and Franchina and Walker and French?????


When these guys bust a gut for my club they get my support.

I dont support blokes that dont give a stuff!!!....

Wanna know why?????Cos its we the public that support their wages...

So we deserve better fro,m some of them...

They must have a work ethic and a sense of pride for the club beyond just themselves...



Does that make things more clear for you????

They play for the public.. they dont have a career if its not for the people that love their club....
Theyre in the service and entertainment industry...

Where is Holly Vallence now???

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I know what youre saying Athorn.
Kouta and Kernahan are from 2 different eras.

The great Ron Barassi said John Nicholls wouldnt make it today.

You have to look at Koutas output and compare it to the modern game....

Look at Cupido and Murphy....then look at what he is costing us.

You cant compare him to Sticks.. didfferent game...

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I think its lala land when you think you can have lazy players on a list who refuse to chase and train hard.

you know why they dont have the send off rule in AFL footy?? cos one player less puts the game way out of kilter....

But we play with one man less and often two or three.. so you get the hundred point thrashings.

Youre right!!!!... it isnt the 80s when you can go and get Sticks Braddles Dora and Motts to prop up your team...

You have a draft!!!..

Ad those players would have been found early on...

Wouldnt they????

So if you want to support just a team.. with no heart.. no professionalism and no ambition.. go do what you normally do and play suburban D grade cricket.. with your Gray Nicholls double scoop bat and the pub around the corner.

The game doesnt wait around for people that dont get the trends of the times.... things change.. faster than amateur cricket bats do!!!

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Oh and kiddies?????

Maybe you didnt get it but if we hadnt have used those form 4 forms to pick up Braddley Kernahan Motley and Doro we would have had 14 premierships today.

At the time the club understood that to win premierships you need elite talent.

One more thing for Dickie.. or whatever his name was....

Do you think a team of the ilk made up of the Russells and the Hartletts will beat a team of Deledios and Franklins???

The Russells and Hartletts might be very good.. but they need the Deledios and the Franklins around them to be better...

Thats juast how it is...always was always will be

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sorry synners I know we've gone over that Big Nick thing before (though last time you claimed it was Ashman who said it and now it's Barass - who's next God? )

but it really is such a silly, silly statement - and even Barass is capable of those.

If Big Nick was playing today he would not be the person he was when he played then. he'd have eaten differently, been treated differently, exercised differently and so on and so on. No one, not even you or Barass has any idea whether a genetically identical (but enviromentally different) Nick would or would not make it.

Like many arguments its all about perspective.

From yours (and those you quote to support yours) its a truth.

From mine its rubbish.


and quite frankly I prefer my perspective on this one.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I think you’ll find that I said I’d be happy with pride in the performance….which is a far cry from supporting a team with no heart, no professionalism & no ambition….but hey, don’t let that stop you from a good bagging.

Is it D grade, or is it Premier 1st X1……I’m not sure myself

Anyway……

So we have players who refuse to chase & train hard………….why are they still selected? Who’s fault is that…the match committee? The coach? Lets sack everybody

Let me get this straight, under the Synbad theory, in order to become a good side, we have to lose & get the early draft choices to get the guns (apparently you can’t get good players past selection 10). However, this will take more than 1 draft. Therefore, after we get the guns in the first year, we tell them to hold back so we can finish bottom the next year to get more guns, & the next, & the next. The problem is that in doing this, a defeatist attitude is instilled into the original guns drafted. After a couple of years, the guns haven’t improved, because we are tanking all the time, & now you’re calling for their heads & wanting to tank again. Thus creating a vicious cycle of mediocrity. What a grand plan.

Heres a theory……….maybe we should continue to develop the players we have, play to win & draft smart. Or is that too hard?

I said before in another thread that watching a Carlton side with untalented players recruited from other teams selected ahead of our young talent made me very angry with the MC. I don't feel any illwill toward players who are not very talented. In my mind they become posterboys for the mismangement of our match committee... so if I denegrate them, I'm really denegrating the MC.. for which I have lost a lot of respect

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Love Cricket? Love me

Whatever

but what is that avatar all about?

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

You have to come to terms with 2006 dont you?
You dont have your little milk bottles handed out to you at prep anymore...

What i want to know is do you still use pig skin on your scoop????

There is no deafetist attitude among kids cos theyre being defeated by the players that are there to be giving them a hand anyway..

If we had won one more game this year so you can feel all nice for a week.. but missed out on Murphy and had pick 5 not four would you feel clever????

Would you?????

Deafetist???... were losing anyway Sumo.... 2 years ago we actually won 10.. what did they take with them out of that season into last year??... where we came last and still had a shocking percentage.

What people like you dont get is.. you can still have victories and lose games of football... you can get games under kids belts.. you can teach kids to go about their footy in a correct manner.. you can have them enjoying their footy.. instead of playing a guy like Lance for example who wont take/ is uncapable of playing a lead role in a footy side.. theyre not gaining anything.. and he might.. help win an extra game or two...Big deal.. it makes no difference.....!!!!!! psyche wise... but if you get the extra couple of early players in the draft they can be drafted on talent and competitiveness... leadership.. sure you can have some later in the draft but why just rely on those when you get the best ones?????

But you lose Murphy and Kennedy and instead get say Dowler...

Or you lose Deledio/Franklin /Griffen but you get Russell/Hartlett...

Its all about the quality of footballer you get... the deafetist attitude is irrelevant because were being deafed anyway..

Or am i missing something sumo?????

Do you wear the St Peters cricket gloves????*interested*

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Enough of the viciousness Synbad, all this guy is saying is that he barracks for his Club to win. Thats a beauiful simple statement that we all want in truth. I assume.

All you seem to be saying is that you want to win but you want to make sure we win bigger down the track and the best way to do that is by getting better players now. Thats fine for you but you are coming from a different perspective. You have a different timeframe.

I really enjoyed 2004 even though I knew we were the one club that needed priority picks and top talent more than anyone else, even if just to try to partially cover the penalties we got. And now we live with that because we had some joy for a year.

You clearly dont mind losing more now to win more later and thats good for you but it doesnt mean your way is more correct and it doesnt mean a win now means less.

Either way we are a long way away from a premiership and this hurts you, I reckon, from reading your stuff. But some of us would take wins at the moment. I want more wins this year because I am a fan.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Viciousness????

Sumo sounds old enough to handle what i said just like its water off a ducks back when he says i should go suport Richmond,

But there is nothing worse than a cowering football club.. intent on mediocrity just so the supporters win an extra 2 games..

Thats not the Carlton we were.

We were a club that everybody feared and we were always in the hunto to pull off yet another flag..

wont be doing any of that if were hoping number 73 is the next Riewoldt/Judd/Brown .....

We need to build a platform for the next 10 yrs.. not live week to week as it comes...


You need to build foundations to see something great and with that takes time..

Flying by the seat of your pants is just petty............

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in the end none of it matters. Some day we will win a flag ( or not and we all die bitter in dark lonley bars on the edge of the world asking some dumb piano player to play the Lilly for us, 'play it Sam, play the Lily for me one more time') and that will become the next shining moment to sweep away this darkness. And another flag and another until we remember little of these times for these times are not the times memories are built upon. they drive the good times but are soon forgotten just like that song 'come on baby let the good times roll, come on baby let it lose my soul...'


ahhhh I cannot wait for this club to rock and roll again!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

rock and rolling and playing Lily one extra time are two different things....

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yeah I know I couldn't find the right word, and that one seemed long enough so I used it!

Believe it or not Synbad, people know what you're trying to say. After all, it's in every second thread!

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

and doing both is a wonderous thing

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Edit - double post.

Did you watch What About Bob the other week Synbad? Do you reckon we're sort of using baby steps already, with using our early draft picks now, and not relying on late picks. So that lesson is learned.

Do you think weve stopped trading for retreads? Not yet, but at least we're giving up pick 60 and 80 rather than Picks 16 and 31. So that lesson is being learned.

I reckon we're on the right path its just going to be a slower trip than you would like. Ill be happy watching Murphy and Kennedy and Russell on their journey. (PS im with Tyrant though, Im not happy about Longmuir but thats another story)

Although I do wish our pick 73 was a Riewoldt. We jut have to rely on Fisher becoming an above average player over the years.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

I want to have it in 2 of three threads ok???

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No wuckers, if you've got the time to do it.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club