How about the adults back then?

Not at carlton too much - we just hated duds rather than the money (Marcesani? anyone?) but clubs like melbourne that were struggling then their supporters did worry about big names on big money. peake for geelong is another i recall a mate of mine bagging (a cats supporter) cos he was on big money , had a big rep and was just a player.

Has been happeneing since the 70's i reckon but like many things it happens a lot more now 'cos they are all on good money.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

c'mon guys. it all relative.....i reckon there were days in the 60's when we bagged ronald dale because he cost us a couple of thousand to cross from the demons.........and i am damn sure captain blood jack dyer occassionally got hell from tiger supporters in the 40's - and he was only being paid shillings.....

and i can remember big nick getting canned from the boundary line for costing the club a refrigerator for being lured from marysborough.......

supporters love to bag...money is just another angle and an easier target than "i know who your mother is sleeping with"

Ronald Dale is worh every red cent George Harris offered him.
Lance isnt worth a cracker on his output over the last four years.
Same with Campo and Lance.*scratch and Kouta*
Im not just talking about what they have offered on the field.
You can pay players / people big money and they can make a profound difference.

Or you can pay blokes like ours and they will bring you a low standard.

Dont get me wrong... im not against money paid out.
Im against fortunes given out to blokes that are unable/ or have no idea what it takes to make a difference.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Money wasnt a fixation previously because we trusted the club to handle the finances properly.
We expected the board and president to act in the best interests of the club and supporters.
Life would be simple if their was no salary cap restrictions and AFL audits of our TPP but that is no longer the reality.

A lot of supporters now want proper management and no longer romantically sit in the stands waving the flag oblivious to all the financial issues.
If a player is asking for top dollar, I expect him to deliver exemplary results because every cent of the TPP that he's hogging is unavailable to other players.
As supporters, members and sponsors, we should rightly expect competent financial management and full disclosure of where our money is going.
If a players wants more than his share, I expect more than his share of results.

If they cant deliver top shelf, dont expect top shelf money.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Look, if Lance was paid $250k over the last 4 years .. and he had kept himself fit with ALL his limitations i dont think he would be such a target.
At the end of the day in that time we have had TWO WOODEN SPOONS.. and the people leading the club must take some responsibility to where were at.

You cant collect $500,000 plus and be unfit or ineffectual.

Campo is another example..
Kouta is another.


It just trickles down the through the playing group ...

If these players showed something... anything to the kids coming through instead of bitching about team orders wed be better off.

The kids like Waite Betts Walker dont know anything about AFL when they come to a club.. they dont know whats expected.. they dont know what AFL coaches are like...the only thing they know is some of the players(because most times they arent Carlton supporters).. and whether Pagan is a good a coach or not should make no difference to the kids as they enter the club.
They shouldnt know any better...

It gets really tricky if the coach has been signed up for a number of years... and the senior players dont do whats expected and instead moan and bitch!!!.. *softcocks*... then the kids who are really doing an apprentiship start questioning within their minds if the coach can coach.

Worse still.. because these overpaid bludges are LAZY,... as well as poisoning the minds of the kids and not setting standards at training and around the club (if theyre not up to it on the field)..theyre bludging...!!!... which means that Walker/Wiggins/Sporn has to leave his man to chase Campos or Koutas who have been allowed to run free... which leaves their own man attended.. and confidence gets shot.. and the structure just gets eroded.
So then the kids arent coming along the way youd hope.. but its not their fault!!!.. its the fault of the players sucking the money and using the coach or ënjoyment" as an excuse instead of rolling up their sleeves and doing what theyre paid to do.

Thats why i want those blokes out..

Theyre letting down the club and theyre letting down their younger teammates because theyre deflecting the blame elsewhere!!!!

Campo is a disgrace... Lance better pull his finger out.. and Kouta should retire after next year.
He clearly has no fire in the belly.

Nothing worse than seeing overpaid players running around with no fire in the belly for a contest.

Especially when you watch the likes of Carazzo Walker Waite Fisher slugging their guts out.

i dont want them to just say "Ive had it im not going to try cos noone else is"

I know in three years we will be back big time...!!!

I dont want the kids tainted by the poison of selfishness and laziness in the meantime.

Glad were bringing in young kids with a sense of passion and work ethic.,

Beats the spoilt old chumps anytime..

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Sounds like the Club's been cashing cheques the players can't handle.

Not hearing many solutions here. Just the same old whinging.

Here's my solution...divide the salary cap by the number of players on the list...simple. Stops supporters whinging, all the players get paid the same, and everyone is happy.

Like in everyday life you get paid what youre worth.

Id love to get those blokes together and ask them if they have done everything they possibly can to prepare themselves to the best of their ability?

Id love to hear their answers to that..

Kouta not worth 1 mill
Lance not worth what he has been getting paid for the last four years.. and what he has negotiated again this time.
Campo.. a master of pulling the wool over peoples eyes.. and the best bit is he did it to Sheedy too.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

In every aspect of life though, you'll get the big mouth know it all who'll talk himself up as a hotshot king of kings...and then...delivers squat...whilst some quiet bloke in the corner who hadly says a word can trump everyone in the room.

That's not a solution, just a reactionary, reflexive spiel with little or no consideration as to how or why things are done the way they are, and provides absolutely no substantiation of any thought of how things could be done better, if in fact they can.

Yes but sometimes the quiet one thinks he is quiet but says too much and exposes himself as a bigger of fool as the one with the big mouth... and adds absolute nothing to the debate but think he does... everybody else who listens to the loud mouth pretending to be quiet in the corber can see this... usually the 'quiet' loudmouth outsmarts him(herself)self when he/ she looks for cryptic hairsplits... thinking theyre adding something but instead they add FA!!!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

He who protests the loudest is usually hiding something.

I'm confusing you for a comedian?

I've told you I was so you can shove your doubts. Maybe because my Dad worked in a Bank and was aware of such things? Maybe whoever took you to the football didn't? Maybe you can't remember? You've read the threads in here where london said it was around in the 1960's. We don't sit around and try to assess every single player. But those known to be on a lot are analysed in a different way, much the same thing happend in business, in your workplace, all over th place.

As you pointed out verbs I agree with one aspect of your post - that Whitnall's pay is abig reason for all of our moaning as you put it. But it's also leadership requirements, performances out on the field. You may say 'he came 3rd in the Nicholls' and you would be right. But the way I saw 2005 was that Whitnall started very very slowly and was moved to defence because he was failing as a forward. the obvious exception was that game against the Swans where Whitnall and Waite were the forward line, as Fevola had a big off day. Waite played up at entre half forward and Whitnall was the full forward, and he could have won it for us if he wasnt moved to the ruck and we had some better delivery to him in the third quarter.

This gets me back to the premise of the thread - where is Whitnall at in his career. There are a few of the standard Whitnall arguments in here but the real concern is to me that if he isnt a permanent forward we have a very expensive loose defender.

You talk about solutions to the problem (which you say is a modern problem) but the simple solution is for high priced players to perform and provide value. Clubs where this happens are happy, clubs where it doesn't happen aren't. On the other hand if there were incentive based contracts you could probably contract around it but with a salary cap a club risks breaching for cap for really good performance.

_________________
Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

And no I chose the eighties because I said 20 years ago when I started following football.

You can have your views about how you remember it but I remember it differently. Who is right if you both remember it differently?

And fixation on money as you put it isnt always going to bring negativity. that sounds like a personal view of yours that you have raised in a number of posts. Hird is very expensive for a footballer but do you hear anyone complaining about him? If Kouta was on say $500k rather than whatever he is on, do you think anyone would complain? its about overpayments against underperformance?

_________________
Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Stick to whinging Verbs.
It's more logical than your solutions.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Kouta had a better year than Buckley, Voss and Hird. Those guys would be the closest to what Kouta is on. Unfortunately our fans have become more feral than those clubs.

You're kidding, aren't you?

If Kouta had a better year thatn those guys, you would expect that we wouldn't have finished the year on 4.5 wins.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Has Kouta had a better last four years than those guys???

Three years???

Two years????

See we can get down to an individual game and say "and thats why he desreves the money he is on"

And i say to you.. "and thats why were last and have been the worst performed team over thosde four years"

Were carrying guys for a long long longt time who are on alot alot alot alot of money..
and havent performed!!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

When it comes to those guys The Game is talking fractions.. only for last season.

I dont give a brass razzoo what players at other clubs that are struggling are doing.. im ONLY interested in how were getting held back!

Plus Kouta is on more than those guys and has delivered less over his career.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

You don't think he is doing pretty well considering the injuries he has had that have been the direct result of other players. It's not like he was injury prone.

No I'm not kidding. Even if we had the Kouta 2000 model we'd still be last cause guys like Wiggins and Livingston are in the team.