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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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moshe25 wrote:
GWS wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
As someone who never saw Doull play - my understanding of him was as a key position defender, and figure with a few of some of the names mentioned here (Roos, Sexton), query what the criteria of half back flanker as opposed to a centre half back would be?

With Southby at full back and Swan McKay at centre half back Doull was free to roam across half back and up onto the wing. Definitely a flanker for the bulk of his career. Only really took on the KP job after Swan and Southby retired. Which means he may well have played 100 games as a KPP but 250 more as a flanker. He was a very good KPP but he was played there by necessity and we missed his creativity there I reckon.

I don't remember him being beaten as a flanker (he got done a couple of times in his last couple of years as an undersized KPP) and his ability to set up players further down the ground was sublime.

Just one Carlton player with that sort of skill level would take us a fair way back up the ladder.

Well, almost true, but not entirely. He started as a ruck rover, then settled in defence as a HBF. Nicholls put him at CHB on Royce Hart for the 1972 GF (it was essentially his second year as a regular in the team). He thrashed Hart who was the best CHF going around and arguably the best ever (with apologies and concessions to Carey and Brereton), and this, along with Percy Jones playing the game of his life rucking all day, and Walls playing superbly at CHF, set up the win for Carlton.

Thereafter, Doull played HBF, CHB and FB depending on the opposition and on injuries to Southby and Curly Austin. In the early 80s, when we got Perovic (a winger from St Kilda) and played him at CHB, it released Doull to play more as an attacking flanker. Unfortunately, his last game was in the 86 GF at FB on Dunstall who torched him. It was one of his 2 or 3 poor games (out of 259 or so).


Fair call (same to Agro). I missed his earlier years.

BTW - it was 356 games... :razz:

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:30 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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I was fortunate enough to see Doull play many games. There have been a number of very good HBF's. We were lucky to have had quite a few over the years. McKay,Hunter, John James. Peter Motley would have been a ripper too. Doull was in a category all his own. I know I am probably biased but not in this instance. Doull was the greatest without exception.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:15 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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As good as Enright is, he isn't a patch on the great man Doully- so smooth, so quiet and so f#@king effective, not to mention brilliant!! My dear mate christened my first born Bruce in honour of the great one; years before Daniel (my son), I bought a beautifully maintained '75 Holden Kingswood HJ stationwagon and named it, you guessed it, Doully. Don't know if it ever cut the angles as well, but by Christ, it was smooth and reliable, not ot mention brilliant! :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:01 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Ang Christou. He'd kick the ball and the crowd would go BRUCE!


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:02 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:44 pm
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Robbo is slowly chipping away at us, rewriting history.
First Simon Madden to replace Nick in the AFL team of the century.
Now this shit, Enright as the greatest. Who was HBF in the AFL team of the century? Doully.
He'll have a crack at replacing Jezza next, then onto Diesel.
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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:06 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Funny that Corey Enright has never been selected as HBF in the All Australian team..

Anyway, in my time watching footy Enright has been the most consistent and accomplished HBF I've seen. Saw the back end of McKay, saw McLeod play some great footy from there and have seen Hodge dominate games from there, but overall as just a HBF Enright beats them because that's where he's actually played all his footy.

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:47 am 
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Ken Hands
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Doull was the greatest HBF. Full stop.

There is a significant gap between him and the others.
When Doull had the ball it was as if the players around him played in slow motion. It was surreal to watch.


On AFL 360 tonight they had Mike Sheahan on and Robbo said on air, that the first thing that Sheahan said to him when he walked into the studio and saw Robbo was , "What about Bruce Doull?"

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:26 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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I think slobbo is looking to delete Doull from the team of the century and replace with Enright. Just like the team he re-wrote minus SOS and Big Nick.
Trying to get as many Carlton players as possible out of his team of the century.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:12 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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Does anyone remember the game Parkin ( I think) moved Doull to the half forward flank ? Still killed it , but it was just wrong .


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:32 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Of course in Mark Robinson's revision of history, he will also drop Dick Reynolds and John Coleman from the AFL Team of the Century on the basis he never saw them play either.


:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:39 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Mots87 wrote:
I was fortunate enough to see Doull play many games. There have been a number of very good HBF's. We were lucky to have had quite a few over the years. McKay,Hunter, John James. Peter Motley would have been a ripper too. Doull was in a category all his own. I know I am probably biased but not in this instance. Doull was the greatest without exception.

I saw many games of Doull's and while I hate this cliche he could play tall and he could play small.

I saw him take on CHB easily when we had players down and also play on the likes of Leigh Matthews when Curly Austin was injured. He was the best and most versatile by far.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:56 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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It used to annoy the crap out of one of my filth supporting mates the amount of applause that eminated from the Harris & Heatley Stands after one of Doull's expertly directed spoils.

It used to shit him no end "all that applause for just punching the ball" he'd use to say.

If my mate was annoyed I was generally happy, and of course he was ver bitter and twisted over 79 & 81. :wink:

Unfortunately he's getting his own back now. :sad:

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 Post subject: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:00 pm 
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John Nicholls

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limestone wrote:
Does anyone remember the game Parkin ( I think) moved Doull to the half forward flank ? Still killed it , but it was just wrong .


I remember the time Dench and Doull were playing on each other, I think North were getting a hiding so they put Dench at FF in the last quarter to try something different. That was a strange sight....


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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moshe25 wrote:
Oh, and as good as he was, he was one of three second BOGs to win NS medals in our flag teams.

- Peter Francis should've won in '79, but Harmes did that thingy on the boundary line, and being Norm Smith's grand-nephew, they gave it to him.
- Fitzpatrick was far and away the BOG and most influential player in '81, but it was good that Doully won one.
- And then the greatest injustice of all. Wayne Johnston was BOG in '82 with daylight second, and Maurice Rioli got it, probably because his name was Rioli - starting many years of over-hyping people with that name!


Agree regarding '79 and '82, not '81 though. I remember at the time, late in the last quarter thinking that Bruce had to get the Norm Smith. I've a copy of the '81 GF, must drag it out and watch it again, Fitzy played a great game, but no, Doully easily for me.

I remember in '81 or '82 talking to Hugh Mitchell (former Essendon* player who was a special commentator at the time on I think ABC radio) he was a sales rep who called where I then worked. I said to him that the previous Saturday he'd sounded pretty impressed with Carlton. He just shook his head and said he'd never seen a half back line like Carlton's in Doull, Perovic and Hunter. Not just the way they defended, but the way they used the ball, how they always hit a target on the forward line.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:37 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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I've said this many times, but Fitzpatrick & Johnston have to be the unluckiest players to never win a Norm Smith.

Fitzy could have won in 79, 81 or 82. As dominant as he was in 81, I suspect he didn't get it that year because he was up against Collingwood's rookie ruckman (Moore being forced to play out of the goal square due to injury) and because Doull was something of a sentimental favourite. I don't think anyone begrudged Doull though, he thrashed Davis that day. Fitzpatrick's game in 82 is underestimated. He was hugely influential at CHF, especially in the premiership quarter. And in 79 he played a stellar game against the Brownlow medallist.

Johnno could easily have won the medal in 79, 82 or 87. Harmes was a worthy winner in 79, so I don't have a problem with that. Rhys-Jones got the job done in 87, but Dermie played injured and was impacted by Dunstall's absence. Then again, I guess Dermie was just about the number 1 player in the comp at the time. The real crime was Rioli being awarded it in 82. If you go back and watch that game, he was beaten soundly by Hunter. Rioli had a purple patch late first quarter/early second quarter, when Hunter was off concussed. Aside from that, Rioli had minimal impact on the match. He wasn't even Richmond's best player that day, let alone the best on ground. Johnno or Fitzy should have got it in 82, without a doubt.

I probably would have gone:
79- Harmes
81- Doull
82- Fitzpatrick
87- Johnston

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:49 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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I note Robbo has corrected himself tonight 'possibly the best half back of all time, besides Doull' or something to that effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:52 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Dont have any problems with your assessment of winners, all more than worthy,

Rioli's win in 82 was a travesty, I've got a funny feeling (but someone will know for sure) that Sun Journalist Tom Prior was on the judging panel that day, he was a certified Carlton hater.

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:52 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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AGRO wrote:
Dont have any problems with your assessment of winners, all more than worthy,

Rioli's win in 82 was a travesty, I've got a funny feeling (but someone will know for sure) that Sun Journalist Tom Prior was on the judging panel that day, he was a certified Carlton hater.


...and A grade [REDACTED].

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:56 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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I thought this was more exciting like who was the greatest of all the Wayne Hughes HBF?

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest HBF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:06 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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My memory of John James in 1961 was that he played most of the year in the Back Pocket. Brilliant player, but his kicking was ordinary particularly when he was kicking for goal. I remember him butchering several shots for goal in the 1962 GF. Bruce Doull was equally brilliant and his disposal was elite. His balance was superb and if I remember correctly he took judo lessons early in his career to learn how to fall correctly. I agree with others here that that prior to Val Perovic joining Carlton, Doull primarily played at CHB and I will never forget his job on Hart in the '72 GF. There have been some peerless players who have made the HBF a position of strength, some of whom have been mentioned, but in my humble opinion Doull was and still is the very best.


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