Greatest HBF

GWS · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:17 pm

The Rhino wrote:

As someone who never saw Doull play - my understanding of him was as a key position defender, and figure with a few of some of the names mentioned here (Roos, Sexton), query what the criteria of half back flanker as opposed to a centre half back would be?

With Southby at full back and Swan McKay at centre half back Doull was free to roam across half back and up onto the wing. Definitely a flanker for the bulk of his career. Only really took on the KP job after Swan and Southby retired. Which means he may well have played 100 games as a KPP but 250 more as a flanker. He was a very good KPP but he was played there by necessity and we missed his creativity there I reckon.

I don't remember him being beaten as a flanker (he got done a couple of times in his last couple of years as an undersized KPP) and his ability to set up players further down the ground was sublime.

Just one Carlton player with that sort of skill level would take us a fair way back up the ladder.

The Rhino · **Joined:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm **Posts:** 6923

Thanks guys

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:36 pm

Cool calm and collected was Doull . He never looked flustered and always seemed to move in slow motion but no one laid a finger on him . Rhys Jones had the same sort of ability.
Different game back then and the HBF was a different role.
In more modern times I would have thought Andrew Macleod would have been up there with the best or even Nigel Smart.
Still none as good as Doull

AGRO · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:37 pm

GWS wrote:

The Rhino wrote:

As someone who never saw Doull play - my understanding of him was as a key position defender, and figure with a few of some of the names mentioned here (Roos, Sexton), query what the criteria of half back flanker as opposed to a centre half back would be?

With Southby at full back and Swan McKay at centre half back Doull was free to roam across half back and up onto the wing. Definitely a flanker for the bulk of his career. Only really took on the KP job after Swan and Southby retired. Which means he may well have played 100 games as a KPP but 250 more as a flanker. He was a very good KPP but he was played there by necessity and we missed his creativity there I reckon.

I don't remember him being beaten as a flanker (he got done a couple of times in his last couple of years as an undersized KPP) and his ability to set up players further down the ground was sublime.

Just one Carlton player with that sort of skill level would take us a fair way back up the ladder.

I'll humbly take issue with you there GWS, early on in his career, talking 71 and 72, 73, 74, he was always named as our Centre Half Back.

He played in n the designated Centre Half Forwards (Royce Hart etc :wink:

)

Geoff Southby was of course full back and David McKay sometime went down back to pick up the taller resting ruckmen picked, and he did that more often after Vin Waite retired, however generally McKay played as a ruck rover, floating half forward.

Bruce Doull was definitely holding down Centre Half Back and didn't really start playing the HBF role til we recruited Val Perovic in 1981.

:wink:

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:42 pm

Another thing about Doull you always know your a great when you create a rule change.
Doull was the reason we now have a 50 metre penalty.
He was a master at slowing the game down and giving away a 15 metre penalty which allowed his fellow backs to man up.
Think it went from 15 to 30 then to 50

Princes Park Whistler · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:54 pm

GWS wrote:

I don't remember him being beaten as a flanker

Frank Marchesani

moshe25 · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am **Posts:** 11671

GWS wrote:

The Rhino wrote:

As someone who never saw Doull play - my understanding of him was as a key position defender, and figure with a few of some of the names mentioned here (Roos, Sexton), query what the criteria of half back flanker as opposed to a centre half back would be?

With Southby at full back and Swan McKay at centre half back Doull was free to roam across half back and up onto the wing. Definitely a flanker for the bulk of his career. Only really took on the KP job after Swan and Southby retired. Which means he may well have played 100 games as a KPP but 250 more as a flanker. He was a very good KPP but he was played there by necessity and we missed his creativity there I reckon.

I don't remember him being beaten as a flanker (he got done a couple of times in his last couple of years as an undersized KPP) and his ability to set up players further down the ground was sublime.

Just one Carlton player with that sort of skill level would take us a fair way back up the ladder.

Well, almost true, but not entirely. He started as a ruck rover, then settled in defence as a HBF. Nicholls put him at CHB on Royce Hart for the 1972 GF (it was essentially his second year as a regular in the team). He thrashed Hart who was the best CHF going around and arguably the best ever (with apologies and concessions to Carey and Brereton), and this, along with Percy Jones playing the game of his life rucking all day, and Walls playing superbly at CHF, set up the win for Carlton.

Thereafter, Doull played HBF, CHB and FB depending on the opposition and on injuries to Southby and Curly Austin. In the early 80s, when we got Perovic (a winger from St Kilda) and played him at CHB, it released Doull to play more as an attacking flanker. Unfortunately, his last game was in the 86 GF at FB on Dunstall who torched him. It was one of his 2 or 3 poor games (out of 259 or so).

adelaideblue · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:06 pm

Yes guys those that you mention were good and Bruce Doull an outstanding centre half back. But just a few years earlier John James was our champion half back flanker. If my memory is correct his peformance in that position earned him a Brownlow Medal.

Cheers for now Adelaideblue :wink:

moshe25 · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am **Posts:** 11671

Hehe, Agro. GMTA.

gerry atric · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am **Posts:** 2125

Mark Robinson is a moron. How does he get a gig in the media when he can't string together a coherent sentence and all his articles sound like they have been put through Google translate. Indicates how laughably woeful the footy media is. Bruce Doull was the best half back I have seen and that was back in the days when there was no team defence, it was one on one. He played on and beat some of the best players of all time - Hart, Quinlan, Blight, Carmen etc. 4 b and fs, 3 seconds in b and f, Norm Smith. He is not in the team of the 20th Century for nothing.

Robbo writes barely intelligible crap, we shouldn't bite but it is hard not to.

camel · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:12 pm

Just think in 20 years time TC will be discussing the likes of Paul Bower, Simon White, Zach Tuohy and the unrealised potential of Karl Norman.

adelaideblue · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:18 pm

Further re John James, "our greatest half back flanker".

There is an excellent article in http://www.blueseum.org on John James and yes he did win the 1961 Brownlow Medal along with 3 CFC best and fairest, pus other awards.

Cheers for now Adelaideblue

sinbagger · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:20 pm

Sydney Blue wrote:

Cool calm and collected was Doull . He never looked flustered and always seemed to move in slow motion but no one laid a finger on him . Rhys Jones had the same sort of ability.
Different game back then and the HBF was a different role.
In more modern times I would have thought Andrew Macleod would have been up there with the best or even Nigel Smart.
Still none as good as Doull

I remember one time that idiot from the bumbers tried to rile him up by stealing his headband, Doull calmly took a spare out of his back pocket and kept playing :-)

aboynamedsue · **Joined:** Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm **Posts:** 6047

camelboy wrote:

Just think in 20 years time TC will be discussing the likes of Paul Bower, Simon White, Zach Tuohy and the unrealised potential of Karl Norman.

Bootsma, Davies, Browne, the list goes on & on....

moshe25 · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am **Posts:** 11671

sinbagger wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

Cool calm and collected was Doull . He never looked flustered and always seemed to move in slow motion but no one laid a finger on him . Rhys Jones had the same sort of ability.
Different game back then and the HBF was a different role.
In more modern times I would have thought Andrew Macleod would have been up there with the best or even Nigel Smart.
Still none as good as Doull

I remember one time that idiot from the bumbers tried to rile him up by stealing his headband, Doull calmly took a spare out of his back pocket and kept playing :-)

What about that night game when Geoff Ablett took his headband and Doull took one look at him and Ablett shat himself. He hightailed it with Doull chasing him. Classic.

aboynamedsue · **Joined:** Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm **Posts:** 6047

gerry atric wrote:

Mark Robinson is a moron

Nobody here will argue with you on that, but he got us talking about him. And that's all he wanted.

Just ignore him and he might go away.....

moshe25 · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am **Posts:** 11671

Oh, and as good as he was, he was one of three second BOGs to win NS medals in our flag teams.

- Peter Francis should've won in '79, but Harmes did that thingy on the boundary line, and being Norm Smith's grand-nephew, they gave it to him.
- Fitzpatrick was far and away the BOG and most influential player in '81, but it was good that Doully won one.
- And then the greatest injustice of all. Wayne Johnston was BOG in '82 with daylight second, and Maurice Rioli got it, probably because his name was Rioli - starting many years of over-hyping people with that name!

gerry atric · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am **Posts:** 2125

moshe25 wrote:

Peter Francis should've won in '79, but Harmes did that thingy on the boundary line, and being Norm Smith's grand-nephew, they gave it to him.
- Fitzpatrick was far and away the BOG and most influential player in '81, but it was good that Doully won one.
- And then the greatest injustice of all. Wayne Johnston was BOG in '82 with daylight second, and Maurice Rioli got it, probably because his name was Rioli - starting many years of over-hyping people with that name!

Good argument for all those. Wayne Johnston could have won 79/82/87. Harmes move to the centre turned the game in 1979, good as Peter Francis was. I thought Fitzy, Marcou and Doully were best in 81, happy for Doull to have it. Would have been good to see Johnno win it in 1982, he certainly deserved one at least. I loved Wow Jones game. He intimidated a much more talented ruckman Mark lee out of the game, and when the Tigers tried to be tough he was way way tougher than them.

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:07 pm

Was Robbo involved in that debacle last year that re-assessed the team was f the century and replaced Big Nick with Simon Madden?

AGRO · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:25 pm

TruBlueBrad wrote:

Was Robbo involved in that debacle last year that re-assessed the team was f the century and replaced Big Nick with Simon Madden?

You needn't of asked, Robinson will have all Carlton players out, once he's finished doing his Ministry of Truth 1984 hatchet job. :roll:

Greatest HBF

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