20 years of ineptitude

SnickerS · **Joined:** Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:35 pm **Posts:** 1472

idle wrote:

Never going to happen. Its a pipe dream and nothing more. Sorry but no one from an internet forum will have any influence on what happens at Carlton - period.

As has been stated many times in this thread, people are slowly turning off. Membership purchasing is now being questioned by members, and the next generation of real supporters will be who?

This is what ultimately will be the downfall of the club. For the diehard's the writing is on the wall, for the average fan the next few years will be the wake up call. We are simply seeing the signs earlier than the average supporter that things at Carlton are not good. For way too long now we've put our trust in the club, from the president down, we've been more than patient supporting our club as they've asked - buy a membership, come to the games and shop @ Carlton. Loyal diehard lovers of Carlton have followed the clubs wishes with the belief their small contributions will go some ways to getting this club back up top where it belongs.

But its another season, another absolutely sh*thouse performance and the diehards at least are saying ...again? You've got to be kidding me! So they step back and take a good long look at the club. Enough with the blind faith that things are in good hands. Quite simply if we are to believe what the club have sold us over the last few years ...They Know We're Coming! Really? / No Passengers! okay ... / I Am Carlton and that means what exactly? I am gullible, accept that my team can deliver inept performances continually and I'll just cop that year after year after year? I don't think so.

Eventually slogans, excuses, 150 year celebrations, alignment of the planets, whatever isn't going to cut it. Improvement is the ONLY thing supporters want to see. Port supporters can see improvement. Hell you'd need to be blind barry not to see how Port have improved. I don't care if they've been secretly working in underground bunkers for the last 10 years to produce improvement - my question is why haven't we?

I'm completely over any talking head from Carlton telling me we're doing our best blah blah blah ...I simply want to see, at the game, with my own eyes, we are improving. Not a gift against Richmond that was handed to us by the AFL last season. For a brief moment I bought it, hook line and sinker. Then Sydney woke me up, and I've been awake ever since. 2014 season comes around and I, like every Carlton supporter out there eagerly awaits their beloved boys to show us improvement. After that Port game I was numb! Absolutely bloody numb. Why? I could see NO difference from last season, or the season before that, or the season before that ...

Premierships? Give me a break. Finals? One can dream. Just improvement. That is all I ask. To know my club is improving. That I have some hope. Because right now, the way I am feeling, I seriously doubt we'll even make the eight this year. And if that doesn't leave an absolutely disgusting taste in your mouth, then you've probably already given up hope.

This post sums up everything.

Wake me up when things start improving.

grrofunger · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:01 pm

SnickerS wrote:

idle wrote:

Never going to happen. Its a pipe dream and nothing more. Sorry but no one from an internet forum will have any influence on what happens at Carlton - period.

As has been stated many times in this thread, people are slowly turning off. Membership purchasing is now being questioned by members, and the next generation of real supporters will be who?

This is what ultimately will be the downfall of the club. For the diehard's the writing is on the wall, for the average fan the next few years will be the wake up call. We are simply seeing the signs earlier than the average supporter that things at Carlton are not good. For way too long now we've put our trust in the club, from the president down, we've been more than patient supporting our club as they've asked - buy a membership, come to the games and shop @ Carlton. Loyal diehard lovers of Carlton have followed the clubs wishes with the belief their small contributions will go some ways to getting this club back up top where it belongs.

But its another season, another absolutely sh*thouse performance and the diehards at least are saying ...again? You've got to be kidding me! So they step back and take a good long look at the club. Enough with the blind faith that things are in good hands. Quite simply if we are to believe what the club have sold us over the last few years ...They Know We're Coming! Really? / No Passengers! okay ... / I Am Carlton and that means what exactly? I am gullible, accept that my team can deliver inept performances continually and I'll just cop that year after year after year? I don't think so.

Eventually slogans, excuses, 150 year celebrations, alignment of the planets, whatever isn't going to cut it. Improvement is the ONLY thing supporters want to see. Port supporters can see improvement. Hell you'd need to be blind barry not to see how Port have improved. I don't care if they've been secretly working in underground bunkers for the last 10 years to produce improvement - my question is why haven't we?

I'm completely over any talking head from Carlton telling me we're doing our best blah blah blah ...I simply want to see, at the game, with my own eyes, we are improving. Not a gift against Richmond that was handed to us by the AFL last season. For a brief moment I bought it, hook line and sinker. Then Sydney woke me up, and I've been awake ever since. 2014 season comes around and I, like every Carlton supporter out there eagerly awaits their beloved boys to show us improvement. After that Port game I was numb! Absolutely bloody numb. Why? I could see NO difference from last season, or the season before that, or the season before that ...

Premierships? Give me a break. Finals? One can dream. Just improvement. That is all I ask. To know my club is improving. That I have some hope. Because right now, the way I am feeling, I seriously doubt we'll even make the eight this year. And if that doesn't leave an absolutely disgusting taste in your mouth, then you've probably already given up hope.

This post sums up everything.

Wake me up when things start improving.

[youtube]jVO8sUrs-Pw[/youtube]

bluedog · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:07 pm

Wham>>>>>>>>>>Green Day

grrofunger · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:10 pm

yeah but when do we go go?

when september ends is when the footy ends

eh

made sense to me anyway

Pafloyul · **Joined:** Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:15 pm **Posts:** 4842

I wouldn't give two s***s for either of them or am I missing some relevant point?

bluedog · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:28 pm

grrofunger wrote:

yeah but when do we go go?

when september ends is when the footy ends

eh

made sense to me anyway

I did get that part of it. Just that, with everyone about to abandon HMAS Carlton, it looks like I might be going solo.

mikkey · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 pm **Posts:** 4129

Quote:

Never going to happen. Its a pipe dream and nothing more. Sorry but no one from an internet forum will have any influence on what happens at Carlton - period.

Well, there has also been a tendency that when more then typing posts was required, people cant be bothered which reminds me of December 2012 when the club invited people from Carlton to come to a evening feedback session and only very few showed up. The Club showed up with 2 Board Members, 2 GM's, Membership Manager and a handfull of other staff. I thought it was a pitty not more people showed up as it was a good session. However, I assume that the club people were a bit underwhelmed by the lack of interest to participate . Does not help if you want influence. I also know that the GM for membership etc is open to have a coffee with people who want to give feedback. Sometimes it takes more then using a keyboard.

grrofunger · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:33 pm

bluedog wrote:

grrofunger wrote:

yeah but when do we go go?

when september ends is when the footy ends

eh

made sense to me anyway

I did get that part of it. Just that, with everyone about to abandon HMAS Carlton, it looks like I might be going solo.

i won't leave you hanging on like a yoyo

Synbad · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:41 pm

mikkey wrote:

Quote:

Never going to happen. Its a pipe dream and nothing more. Sorry but no one from an internet forum will have any influence on what happens at Carlton - period.

Well, there has also been a tendency that when more then typing posts was required, people cant be bothered which reminds me of December 2012 when the club invited people from Carlton to come to a evening feedback session and only very few showed up. The Club showed up with 2 Board Members, 2 GM's, Membership Manager and a handfull of other staff. I thought it was a pitty not more people showed up as it was a good session. However, I assume that the club people were a bit underwhelmed by the lack of interest to participate . Does not help if you want influence. I also know that the GM for membership etc is open to have a coffee with people who want to give feedback. Sometimes it takes more then using a keyboard.

so with those thAt went... what happened???
u were one... what initiatives did they take on board???

mikkey · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 pm **Posts:** 4129

Synbad wrote:

mikkey wrote:

Quote:

Never going to happen. Its a pipe dream and nothing more. Sorry but no one from an internet forum will have any influence on what happens at Carlton - period.

Well, there has also been a tendency that when more then typing posts was required, people cant be bothered which reminds me of December 2012 when the club invited people from Carlton to come to a evening feedback session and only very few showed up. The Club showed up with 2 Board Members, 2 GM's, Membership Manager and a handfull of other staff. I thought it was a pitty not more people showed up as it was a good session. However, I assume that the club people were a bit underwhelmed by the lack of interest to participate . Does not help if you want influence. I also know that the GM for membership etc is open to have a coffee with people who want to give feedback. Sometimes it takes more then using a keyboard.

so with those thAt went... what happened???
u were one... what initiatives did they take on board???

Well, you did not show up as were all those regulars here who are most negative. It was a feedback session. Doc and I did post quite a bit about it at the time. But some o the things discussed (even so as I mentioned that 10 0r 11 people from 3-4 forums is not impressive) were a few of the digital stuff / developments the club was working on and we gave feedback to. Some examples I remember: We made it very clear that the treatment of the long distance members was unacceptable and that has been fixed. We talked about moving more games to the MCG and they are trying (its 15 months ago) also things like more involvement and the ghost of PP idea was discussed and encouraged.

It is however clear that ONE meeting nobody shows up to wont be earth shifting. The key is to communicate directly with people at the club (and push them to have more fan group interactions) etc.

Lets be frank here - do you think that key people have time to read these forums? Are there really more then 30-40 regular posters (i havent counted but that my gut feel) and how much does that influence compared to others? We all agree that Sticks is a problem, but try to go to a function.......

The tone here has also become so negative and fatalistic that I think a few people cant be bothered posting here. I myself both read and post less on TC. The last few days a combination of frustrations has got me posting a lot, but I wont do much more. Let me be very clear that I am disappointed with the lack of improvement and the lack of more cut through initiatives to improve the hop factor. I just dont like the nuclear option and the constant talk of not following CFC anymore. I rather see discussions of realistic changes and how they can be achieved. And not being a member is not a way to make changes.

Just my 2 cents.

Cretylus · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:25 pm

mikkey wrote:

Synbad wrote:

mikkey wrote:

Quote:

Never going to happen. Its a pipe dream and nothing more. Sorry but no one from an internet forum will have any influence on what happens at Carlton - period.

Well, there has also been a tendency that when more then typing posts was required, people cant be bothered which reminds me of December 2012 when the club invited people from Carlton to come to a evening feedback session and only very few showed up. The Club showed up with 2 Board Members, 2 GM's, Membership Manager and a handfull of other staff. I thought it was a pitty not more people showed up as it was a good session. However, I assume that the club people were a bit underwhelmed by the lack of interest to participate . Does not help if you want influence. I also know that the GM for membership etc is open to have a coffee with people who want to give feedback. Sometimes it takes more then using a keyboard.

so with those thAt went... what happened???
u were one... what initiatives did they take on board???

Well, you did not show up as were all those regulars here who are most negative. It was a feedback session. Doc and I did post quite a bit about it at the time. But some o the things discussed (even so as I mentioned that 10 0r 11 people from 3-4 forums is not impressive) were a few of the digital stuff / developments the club was working on and we gave feedback to. Some examples I remember: We made it very clear that the treatment of the long distance members was unacceptable and that has been fixed. We talked about moving more games to the MCG and they are trying (its 15 months ago) also things like more involvement and the ghost of PP idea was discussed and encouraged.

It is however clear that ONE meeting nobody shows up to wont be earth shifting. The key is to communicate directly with people at the club (and push them to have more fan group interactions) etc.

Lets be frank here - do you think that key people have time to read these forums? Are there really more then 30-40 regular posters (i havent counted but that my gut feel) and how much does that influence compared to others? We all agree that Sticks is a problem, but try to go to a function.......

The tone here has also become so negative and fatalistic that I think a few people cant be bothered posting here. I myself both read and post less on TC. The last few days a combination of frustrations has got me posting a lot, but I wont do much more. Let me be very clear that I am disappointed with the lack of improvement and the lack of more cut through initiatives to improve the hop factor. I just dont like the nuclear option and the constant talk of not following CFC anymore. I rather see discussions of realistic changes and how they can be achieved. And not being a member is not a way to make changes.

Just my 2 cents.

I understand your sentiment....

But my angle is quite simple

It is far healthier for the supporter and the club to be honest and realistic about what the club has done and how it plans to move forward.

You only need to look at the Bombers fans to see the level of self serving delusion - this isn't a healthy and positive attitude to have,

I am not sure if you have ever browsed the BomberBlitz forums - but most of the posts pertaining to the Drug Doping saga are totally off the planet.

Having said that, its a little fatalistic for members to give up on the whole season purely based upon a first round loss. (although the way we lost highlights a disturbing pattern that has developed over the past decade)

Rexy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am **Posts:** 28227

When the current constitution allows for continuous board appointments nothing will change as they're not accountable to members.

You want accountability, change the constitution to stop appointments and real change has a chance to filter through all levels of the club.

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 6330

After watching the saints last night that's what this club needs. Accepting that an era has passed and playing kids with a game style that will be successful employed by a coach who should have held a senior position years ago.
Curran Saunders Dunstan Wright Templeton Ross Newness are going to be 200 game players

Cretylus · **Posted:** Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:17 am

Rexy wrote:

When the current constitution allows for continuous board appointments nothing will change as they're not accountable to members.

You want accountability, change the constitution to stop appointments and real change has a chance to filter through all levels of the club.

Yes I remember the AGM that voted in that resolution. It was when Pratt was president.

It used to be the case that a board appointed director must go the members at the next AGM to have his or hers directorship position voted upon.

The new resolution enabled a board appointed directorship to complete the remaining years of a director who just retired.

I was the only member present that rose his hand in objection (even some of my friends at the time told me to lower my hand)

This is what we are dealing with at our clubs, and probably at most clubs. Sheep mentality.

I recall another AGM at carlton when Elliott was president, and they increased the number of directors possible at the club to 20. They never explained why this was being done. Plans were that north melbourne and carlton were going to merge and the club wanted room for 6 or 7 north melbourne directors to join our board. I remember sticks attending in a track suit and Elliott saying to him, "these are good resolutions sticks, you would vote for them". How could 150 or so members reject any of the resolutions? Very politically sneaky in my opinion.

But apathetic and disinterested sheep get what they deserve don't they.....baaaahh

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 17961

mikkey wrote:

In the end the frustration for many is that after black Friday we made a bad job of rebuilding the team - crucially drafting wise and trading wise. Not at least getting to a prelim by last year but instead a downward trend for 2 years has probably been too much for many. I do however think ppl are overreacting. We have drafted better the last 2 years - and we need to continue that. We still have a reasonable team which with luck on the injury side can play finals. We must however recognize that the premiership window is most likely shut and manage the list accordingly. The slitting the wrist / nuke the club and start from scratch stuff is just so over the top.

Yeah, sure. You know what the "frustration is for many' :lol:

You wouldn't have a clue what my frustrations are with Carlton. It's got so little to do with how the team are performing. It's about what we have put in place to allow the players and the club in general to perform. Acceptance of mediocre administrators, acceptance of mediocre board members. Acceptance of mediocre football staff. People being placed into positions because they make the incumbents feel more secure in their positions.
The same mistakes being repeated over and over again.

Perhaps you should consider that you wouldn't have a clue what others are frustrated by.

Synbad · **Posted:** Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:34 am

apart from that mikkey.. you went along and you were blown off by them
nobody cared about what you had to say...
ultimately it was an exercise to pretend.... of all that brainstorming you people did together... what was one initiative that was conceived?

you think you know this cllub and how it works better than me???

im busy.. either working.. doings something else...i dont have time for carlton navel gazing.
i come on here .. type what i think.. and thats it
if it awakens others from their being asleep on the wheel.. its good.
if not.. im at least getting it off my chest somewhere
i didnt awaken u... ur still carrying on like its my fault...

heres something for u to consider
either your satisfied with the club or youre not...!!.. its not really about how you direct the ills of the footy club to me... im not tied into the way its run at all.... as a matter of fact i dont even buy a membership
dunno how you can twist this on me... but im flattered ... just its unwarranted credibility
im just someone who warns .. this club is not going anywhere except downwards.. and has been for a while.

debate that all u like.. just dont blame me for why the footy club has been a big rock.. that was broken into a smaller rock.. thats been busted up into smaller pieces and now is slowly rturning into dust... get a hose on it soon... hise around... and it will turn into silt.. and will not have anything in common to what it used to be

but dont get smarty farty with me about it.... i didnt do it..

harker · **Joined:** Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am **Posts:** 2345

keogh wrote:

After watching the saints last night that's what this club needs. Accepting that an era has passed and playing kids with a game style that will be successful employed by a coach who should have held a senior position years ago.
Curran Saunders Dunstan Wright Templeton Ross Newness are going to be 200 game players

...........Yeah right. It always starts like that but things happen along the way.

Odds of all those guys playing 200 games are..............large....very large.

Cretylus · **Posted:** Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:55 am

Synbad wrote:

debate that all u like.. just dont blame me for why the footy club has been a big rock.. that was broken into a smaller rock.. thats been busted up into smaller pieces and now is slowly rturning into dust... get a hose on it soon... hise around... and it will turn into silt.. and will not have anything in common to what it used to be

but dont get smarty farty with me about it.... i didnt do it..

It's ALL your fault Mr S

camel · **Posted:** Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:32 am

Geez just when I thought my life was crap enough by itself I read through this thread.

TBH I let this thread be because there's just no real point reading over much of the same stuff we've been discussing for years.

There's no genuine engagement, worse nor is there any reason to be engaged other than the broader cultural way we live our lives, ie: winter's coming so it's time to follow the footy.

The sad thing is that there is an undeniable care that almost all Carlton supporters have for the club. The level of that care varies individually, and it always will. The club appears to be relying on that base level and doing nothing to be proactive to ensure the diehards are valued or that it can attract sustainable future support.

You've heard it all before, don't need me repeating it.

@#$%&! I hope we beat Richmond.

@#$%&! I'm stupid.

harker · **Joined:** Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am **Posts:** 2345

camelboy wrote:

Geez just when I thought my life was crap enough by itself I read through this thread.
TBH I let this thread be because there's just no real point reading over much of the same stuff we've been discussing for years.
There's no genuine engagement, worse nor is there any reason to be engaged other than the broader cultural way we live our lives, ie: winter's coming so it's time to follow the footy.

The sad thing is that there is an undeniable care that almost all Carlton supporters have for the club. The level of that care varies individually, and it always will. The club appears to be relying on that base level and doing nothing to be proactive to ensure the diehards are valued or that it can attract sustainable future support.

You've heard it all before, don't need me repeating it.
@#$%&! I hope we beat Richmond.
@#$%&! I'm stupid.

Most of the diehards (myself included) are also the die-soons.

I thrive speaking to young Carlton supporters as the olds ones are largely................tired.

20 years of ineptitude

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