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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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kezza wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
I think we are playing a very dangerous game this trade period. You cannot possibly have 90% of the list "available at the right offer".
As much as I realise this list has under-performed and have serious question marks on them collectively and individually, this is utter madness and destroys footy clubs!

Agree totally.


I suggest you think of the players as less a family and more a workplace.
Those left behind are happier when those who aren't pulling their weight are moved on and subsequently new people come on board who do pull their weight.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm
Posts: 2123
Is it really any different to how it has always been?

Most years, most players on every list would be "available" at the right price. There just isn't a lot of movement because the idea of player movement as a part of the game is not as readily accepted in the AFL by players and supporters as it is in other sports.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:26 pm
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Interesting to see Gibbs & Kreuzer not feature in the latest facebook cover page!!! Have they given away the fact they could be traded??? I may be off the mark, but interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:43 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
Wangers wrote:
Interesting to see Gibbs & Kreuzer not feature in the latest facebook cover page!!! Have they given away the fact they could be traded??? I may be off the mark, but interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks.


I think that's the most likely reason.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
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aramari wrote:
Wangers wrote:
Interesting to see Gibbs & Kreuzer not feature in the latest facebook cover page!!! Have they given away the fact they could be traded??? I may be off the mark, but interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks.


I think that's the most likely reason.


Or they're dead.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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You should see what comes up when you read the Facebook status updates backwards...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:43 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 2125
Doc Sherrin wrote:
Feels more like a club now than it has for a long, long time. Embrace change MS.


Yeah, I am not sure Doc, feels more like corporation than a club, a middling company with average decision makers desperate to cover over the cracks. I may be accused of staying in the past, but I loved the club from when I first followed my father's allegiance, and they have rewarded me greatly, I have been at the MCG for all 8 flags since 1968, but we are in the dying days of a great and unique competition. We are now aping Euro soccer where players run the game. Our strength was our clubs and now it is turning into a grubby business of buy and sell. Free Agency has handed the power to players and their slimy managers. The players should realise that they are extremely privileged and that privilege is based on a competition built around clubs for 150 years from the VFA to the VFL to the AFL. Any player who reckons thay are not doing well should talk to a cricketer how much is the 300th best Victorian cricketer getting paid? He'd be paying subs, the 300 best AFL player would be on about $300k.

Once it is controlled by player/managers the game loses what made it great and what made fans love and support it in such numbers. Why bother with drafting and development, just go down the bottom for a few years build up draft picks, swap them for established players, bring in 15 FAs over a few years and maybe you'll win a flag. The corporation will be successful, the brand will be noticed, the shareholders should be satisfied, but the supporters may have ceased to care. I used to love the team and the game. Now it doesn't hurt that much if we lose and will hurt less as players come and go like one hit wonders in the charts.

I am sure I will be told to get with the program or eff off, in which case I'll choose the latter.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 15008
Synbad wrote:
kezza wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
I think we are playing a very dangerous game this trade period. You cannot possibly have 90% of the list "available at the right offer".
As much as I realise this list has under-performed and have serious question marks on them collectively and individually, this is utter madness and destroys footy clubs!

Agree totally.

If a farmer wants or needs a particular crop does he plant one seed and hope it sprouts or multiple hoping at least one takes root.?

Crops aren't people with feelings.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:01 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Location: Free Beer!!
Wangers wrote:
Interesting to see Gibbs & Kreuzer not feature in the latest facebook cover page!!! Have they given away the fact they could be traded??? I may be off the mark, but interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks.


Yes, you're onto something. KRUEZER & GIBBS TRADED!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 7357
gerry atric wrote:
Doc Sherrin wrote:
Feels more like a club now than it has for a long, long time. Embrace change MS.


Yeah, I am not sure Doc, feels more like corporation than a club, a middling company with average decision makers desperate to cover over the cracks. I may be accused of staying in the past, but I loved the club from when I first followed my father's allegiance, and they have rewarded me greatly, I have been at the MCG for all 8 flags since 1968, but we are in the dying days of a great and unique competition. We are now aping Euro soccer where players run the game. Our strength was our clubs and now it is turning into a grubby business of buy and sell. Free Agency has handed the power to players and their slimy managers. The players should realise that they are extremely privileged and that privilege is based on a competition built around clubs for 150 years from the VFA to the VFL to the AFL. Any player who reckons thay are not doing well should talk to a cricketer how much is the 300th best Victorian cricketer getting paid? He'd be paying subs, the 300 best AFL player would be on about $300k.

Once it is controlled by player/managers the game loses what made it great and what made fans love and support it in such numbers. Why bother with drafting and development, just go down the bottom for a few years build up draft picks, swap them for established players, bring in 15 FAs over a few years and maybe you'll win a flag. The corporation will be successful, the brand will be noticed, the shareholders should be satisfied, but the supporters may have ceased to care. I used to love the team and the game. Now it doesn't hurt that much if we lose and will hurt less as players come and go like one hit wonders in the charts.

I am sure I will be told to get with the program or eff off, in which case I'll choose the latter.


I'm with you Gerry..................just cant get with the program.But im gonna learn to live with it,and i certainly aint gonna eff off.Stick around Gerry.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:15 pm
Posts: 4842
gerry atric wrote:
Doc Sherrin wrote:
Feels more like a club now than it has for a long, long time. Embrace change MS.


Yeah, I am not sure Doc, feels more like corporation than a club, a middling company with average decision makers desperate to cover over the cracks. I may be accused of staying in the past, but I loved the club from when I first followed my father's allegiance, and they have rewarded me greatly, I have been at the MCG for all 8 flags since 1968, but we are in the dying days of a great and unique competition. We are now aping Euro soccer where players run the game. Our strength was our clubs and now it is turning into a grubby business of buy and sell. Free Agency has handed the power to players and their slimy managers. The players should realise that they are extremely privileged and that privilege is based on a competition built around clubs for 150 years from the VFA to the VFL to the AFL. Any player who reckons thay are not doing well should talk to a cricketer how much is the 300th best Victorian cricketer getting paid? He'd be paying subs, the 300 best AFL player would be on about $300k.

Once it is controlled by player/managers the game loses what made it great and what made fans love and support it in such numbers. Why bother with drafting and development, just go down the bottom for a few years build up draft picks, swap them for established players, bring in 15 FAs over a few years and maybe you'll win a flag. The corporation will be successful, the brand will be noticed, the shareholders should be satisfied, but the supporters may have ceased to care. I used to love the team and the game. Now it doesn't hurt that much if we lose and will hurt less as players come and go like one hit wonders in the charts.

I am sure I will be told to get with the program or eff off, in which case I'll choose the latter.


Eff off!

No, you are right but while we wait for the others to catch up, I hope the club makes a few trades. :wink: However, I was hoping to upgrade our draft status so we could 'draft and develop' rather than a shake up of faces in which my club could be any club. It's a souless business that makes choosing sides pointless.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:32 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
Enough of the Martin Flanagan "footy's lost its soooouuul" sob stories! This is ridiculous. Man the @#$%&! up and deal with it!

If you don't like professional sport, go follow the ammos FFS.

Players were moving clubs for money 100 years ago. Barassi moved to Carlton nearly 50 years ago! Peter Moore moved to Collingwood over 30 years ago.

What nonsense!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:52 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
kezza wrote:
Synbad wrote:
kezza wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
I think we are playing a very dangerous game this trade period. You cannot possibly have 90% of the list "available at the right offer".
As much as I realise this list has under-performed and have serious question marks on them collectively and individually, this is utter madness and destroys footy clubs!

Agree totally.

If a farmer wants or needs a particular crop does he plant one seed and hope it sprouts or multiple hoping at least one takes root.?

Crops aren't people with feelings.

You're living in the past.
Stay there and you can watch us slide further down the ladder.
Like it or hate it it's different now and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:14 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:58 am
Posts: 2130
gerry atric wrote:
Doc Sherrin wrote:
Feels more like a club now than it has for a long, long time. Embrace change MS.


Yeah, I am not sure Doc, feels more like corporation than a club, a middling company with average decision makers desperate to cover over the cracks. I may be accused of staying in the past, but I loved the club from when I first followed my father's allegiance, and they have rewarded me greatly, I have been at the MCG for all 8 flags since 1968, but we are in the dying days of a great and unique competition. We are now aping Euro soccer where players run the game. Our strength was our clubs and now it is turning into a grubby business of buy and sell. Free Agency has handed the power to players and their slimy managers. The players should realise that they are extremely privileged and that privilege is based on a competition built around clubs for 150 years from the VFA to the VFL to the AFL. Any player who reckons thay are not doing well should talk to a cricketer how much is the 300th best Victorian cricketer getting paid? He'd be paying subs, the 300 best AFL player would be on about $300k.

Once it is controlled by player/managers the game loses what made it great and what made fans love and support it in such numbers. Why bother with drafting and development, just go down the bottom for a few years build up draft picks, swap them for established players, bring in 15 FAs over a few years and maybe you'll win a flag. The corporation will be successful, the brand will be noticed, the shareholders should be satisfied, but the supporters may have ceased to care. I used to love the team and the game. Now it doesn't hurt that much if we lose and will hurt less as players come and go like one hit wonders in the charts.

I am sure I will be told to get with the program or eff off, in which case I'll choose the latter.


I understand your viewpoint. There is a limit to this Free Agency period before it comes distasteful. I think the end result of free agency is that it will make the stronger clubs stronger. We already have a two tiered competition-expect it to get more two-tiered eg Sylvia to Fremantle.

The Paul Chapman delisting I find more distasteful than any free agency trade though. Treating a champion of the game like what Geelong has done is not what I want to see. Where is the respect for him from this club?



There are still good stories in the game...even if they all end up being about the champion team (which leaves Carlton eating its dust) Hawthorn.

This loyalty to Max Bailey from the Hawks was admirable.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-05/b ... out-on-top

The fact of the matter is that we either embrace the Hawthorn/Sydney model of success (ie utilising trades/free agency) or we all end up secretely wishing we were Hawthorn/Sydney supporters. Carlton is a mediocre side. Anything to lift it beyond being mediocre I am in favour of.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:01 am 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 906
aramari wrote:
Enough of the Martin Flanagan "footy's lost its soooouuul" sob stories! This is ridiculous. Man the @#$%&! up and deal with it!

If you don't like professional sport, go follow the ammos FFS.

Players were moving clubs for money 100 years ago. Barassi moved to Carlton nearly 50 years ago! Peter Moore moved to Collingwood over 30 years ago.

What nonsense!


True, but I take it you meant to say Moore moved from Collingwood over 30 years ago, which is also true and relevant to your point.

Free Agency is what it is, a players chance to move on after giving at least decent service to the club. Sure there will be times when a club may be hard done by, but there's no hesitation in showing a player the door when it suits and I don't reckon the clubs can have it both ways.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:38 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 15008
Synbad wrote:
kezza wrote:
Synbad wrote:
kezza wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
I think we are playing a very dangerous game this trade period. You cannot possibly have 90% of the list "available at the right offer".
As much as I realise this list has under-performed and have serious question marks on them collectively and individually, this is utter madness and destroys footy clubs!

Agree totally.

If a farmer wants or needs a particular crop does he plant one seed and hope it sprouts or multiple hoping at least one takes root.?

Crops aren't people with feelings.

You're living in the past.
Stay there and you can watch us slide further down the ladder.
Like it or hate it it's different now and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

I know its different now. I do hate it, its just the way i feel.
I have been going to the footy for 37 years, for the first time my love of footy is not was it once was.
I want success, we all do.
Doesnt mean we have to like it, time will tell what toll this has on supporters. Shane Crawford wrote a good article today in the paper about his sons reaction to Buddy leaving. This whole free agency thing could go pear shaped for the AFL and the players, without the supporters there will be no TV rights deal and no money.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:40 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
tap in 79 wrote:
gerry atric wrote:
Doc Sherrin wrote:
Feels more like a club now than it has for a long, long time. Embrace change MS.


Yeah, I am not sure Doc, feels more like corporation than a club, a middling company with average decision makers desperate to cover over the cracks. I may be accused of staying in the past, but I loved the club from when I first followed my father's allegiance, and they have rewarded me greatly, I have been at the MCG for all 8 flags since 1968, but we are in the dying days of a great and unique competition. We are now aping Euro soccer where players run the game. Our strength was our clubs and now it is turning into a grubby business of buy and sell. Free Agency has handed the power to players and their slimy managers. The players should realise that they are extremely privileged and that privilege is based on a competition built around clubs for 150 years from the VFA to the VFL to the AFL. Any player who reckons thay are not doing well should talk to a cricketer how much is the 300th best Victorian cricketer getting paid? He'd be paying subs, the 300 best AFL player would be on about $300k.

Once it is controlled by player/managers the game loses what made it great and what made fans love and support it in such numbers. Why bother with drafting and development, just go down the bottom for a few years build up draft picks, swap them for established players, bring in 15 FAs over a few years and maybe you'll win a flag. The corporation will be successful, the brand will be noticed, the shareholders should be satisfied, but the supporters may have ceased to care. I used to love the team and the game. Now it doesn't hurt that much if we lose and will hurt less as players come and go like one hit wonders in the charts.

I am sure I will be told to get with the program or eff off, in which case I'll choose the latter.


I understand your viewpoint. There is a limit to this Free Agency period before it comes distasteful. I think the end result of free agency is that it will make the stronger clubs stronger. We already have a two tiered competition-expect it to get more two-tiered eg Sylvia to Fremantle.

The Paul Chapman delisting I find more distasteful than any free agency trade though. Treating a champion of the game like what Geelong has done is not what I want to see. Where is the respect for him from this club?



There are still good stories in the game...even if they all end up being about the champion team (which leaves Carlton eating its dust) Hawthorn.

This loyalty to Max Bailey from the Hawks was admirable.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-05/b ... out-on-top

The fact of the matter is that we either embrace the Hawthorn/Sydney model of success (ie utilising trades/free agency) or we all end up secretely wishing we were Hawthorn/Sydney supporters. Carlton is a mediocre side. Anything to lift it beyond being mediocre I am in favour of.

Chappy was probably asked to resign and therefore have a dignified exit, similar to what we should do with Scotland. If he doesn't accept the easy option, then the hard one has to follow.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:54 am 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4773
Some players don't know when too stop though. Ie Chapman, Didak, Pods, Cross

You had your turn, retire gracefully, especially if you already won a premiership.

Some of these young kids don't get a chance as they don't have a long time to prove themselves and develop.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:59 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25267
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I really dont want to lose Robinson.
We'd miss his grunt, and that's exactly what we need and what he would be targeted for.

If it would take him and Pick 12 for Boyd I'd do that in a heartbeat.

We're after Reid. That's Good. So he's rumoured to cost us Pick 12 and Lucas. so Boyd and Patton are out of the picture.

I reckon there's still a deal to be made for Staker and Dockerty and that might include a player or 2 and a pick.

Hampson is the interesting one and secured on contract but the Hawks and Tigers havent got anything to give us for Hammer...who I rate and want to retain. So what then? GWS have Mummy now and missed on Buddy so Pick 1 and Hampson doesnt look so good for Boyd as it did a few weeks back.

Its a weird world. This month is going to make my head spin.

I want change and really upgrade the quality of the list we rather tham gambling with picks for the future.
Just this year, and we need to set up ourselves for FA opportunites in the future too.

Would love to snag Patton/ Boyd. Straighten us up for 10 years.
Would love to get Reid to give us the KP we're craving for now. If not Reid at least a Staker type (who I was dead against a month ago).

The above are handy replacements for Mitchell, McCarthy. Laidler and Davies.
Gives us plenty of flexibility with Hendo and Waite. Set.

Thomas and Shaw would give me an orgasm....free up Tuohy/ Simpson into the midfield, along with Thomas.
Our midfield already looks better with Thomas Tuohy/ Simpson/ Walker in there.

Dockerty and Adams would be handy smalls for the future too...and Dockerty sounds good to go.

If we could get Thomas, Shaw, Reid, Boyd, Dockerty and Adams and lost a mix of Hammer Robbo Yarran Lucas Laidler Duigan Rnd 1, 2, 3 picks in the draft, I reckon we'd have done very well to improve our list for 2014-16.

I want an injection of class, power, height and midfield ability. I want it all.

if we could get all those with what we have to offer it'd be the heist of the millenium.


The point is that this list turnover for improvement is doing my head in.

I want want want but I aint going to get get get.

Do we improve the list with better players than those moved on or do we go for kids?
Een if we want to improve our list how the @#$%&! are we going to get half a dozen good players onto our list in 2014?

Conundrum. I'm hating this period of limbo land...thank go there's the Bondi Roosters in a Rugby Leagur GF today. Unfortunately I've got Hawks supporters coming over...and they are going to tell me how good they'll be despite losing their star player to Swans. I wish we could say that.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:02 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25267
Location: Bondi Beach
gerry atric wrote:
Doc Sherrin wrote:
Feels more like a club now than it has for a long, long time. Embrace change MS.


Yeah, I am not sure Doc, feels more like corporation than a club, a middling company with average decision makers desperate to cover over the cracks. I may be accused of staying in the past, but I loved the club from when I first followed my father's allegiance, and they have rewarded me greatly, I have been at the MCG for all 8 flags since 1968, but we are in the dying days of a great and unique competition. We are now aping Euro soccer where players run the game. Our strength was our clubs and now it is turning into a grubby business of buy and sell. Free Agency has handed the power to players and their slimy managers. The players should realise that they are extremely privileged and that privilege is based on a competition built around clubs for 150 years from the VFA to the VFL to the AFL. Any player who reckons thay are not doing well should talk to a cricketer how much is the 300th best Victorian cricketer getting paid? He'd be paying subs, the 300 best AFL player would be on about $300k.

Once it is controlled by player/managers the game loses what made it great and what made fans love and support it in such numbers. Why bother with drafting and development, just go down the bottom for a few years build up draft picks, swap them for established players, bring in 15 FAs over a few years and maybe you'll win a flag. The corporation will be successful, the brand will be noticed, the shareholders should be satisfied, but the supporters may have ceased to care. I used to love the team and the game. Now it doesn't hurt that much if we lose and will hurt less as players come and go like one hit wonders in the charts.

I am sure I will be told to get with the program or eff off, in which case I'll choose the latter.


Well put GA.

I feel the same, but can't let go...I want to though.

I love footy and Carlton is my club. I guess I'm stuck with that.

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