Overall there's been a definite shift from "wanting more money/opportunity" to "wanting a premiership". As usual, we're still behind the trend and aiming for what worked 5-6 years ago.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

I think we focus too much on our duds and are quick to lionise anything that Syd, Geel, Haw do.
Most teams pick duds and most teams let players through who turn out to be guns.

All top 30 picks have talent and skills. Whether they turn out to be guns depends on a multitude of things which are difficult to know at the time of the draft. Depends on things such as internal drive, club's ability to develop, standards set by coaches and other players at training and on match day etc...

Below, I have listed out some top 30 duds picks from Carl, Haw, Syd & Geelong from 2005-2010.
I then list some players that all clubs missed until at least pick 20.
I think it shows that Carlton has not done as badly as is often made out - IN TERMS OF RAW PICKS. (I think we can do a lot better in terms of development and setting standards... which is where I think the top teams really carve us up):

Carl dud top 30 picks since 2005: Bower, Hampson, Lucas, Watson
Haw dud top 30 picks since 2005: Ellis, Thorp, Muston, Dowler, Brent Renouf, Schoenmakers,
Geel dud top 30 picks since 2005: Varcoe*, Trent West, Menzel*, Smedts, Djerrkura, Mitch Brown, Smedts
Syd dud top 30 picks since 2005: Lewis Johnston, Daniel O'Keefe, Veszpremi, Brett Meredith, Jed Lamb,

* If Varcoe was at Carlton, we would have ruled him a dud long ago, Menzel keeps getting injured (could say similar thing about Bailey but, given he just won a Premiership.....)

Guns picked from pick 20: Fyfe, Ibbotsen, Rory Sloane, Chris Mayne, Ballantyne, Lindsay Thomas, Bernie Vince, Andrew Swallow, Tippett, Josh Kennedy (Haw/Syd - wouldn't have been picked top 30 if not for Father/Son), Todd Goldstein, Zaharakis, Sam Reid, Tayte Pears, Jack Steven, Westhoff, Jackson Trengove (PA), Jack Reddden, Dayne Beams, Hannebury, Steven Motlop, Bastinac, Carlisle, Gunston,

AND, it is possible that Watson still develops into a good footballer, as could Lucas and Hampson.
Mostly, I've ruled the duds based on how we would have treated them if they were picked by Carlton...

NRS nominee ladder over last five years:
1. GWS: 11
2. Adelaide: 10
2. Melbourne: 10
4. Collingwood: 9
5. Essendon*: 8
6. Richmond: 7
6. Brisbane: 7
8. Bulldogs: 6
8. West Coast: 6
8. Hawthorn: 6
8. Gold Coast: 6
12. Geelong: 5
12. Fremantle: 5
12. Sydney: 5
15. Port Adelaide: 4
15. North Melbourne: 4
17. St Kilda: 3
17. Carlton: 3

Geez, didn't even expect that many...

EDIT: Yarran and Garlett in 2010
AJ in 2009

So yeah, our "in the last 5 years" list is a bit skewed...

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Aaron Joseph

17th Prem, you are a hard taskmaster. Jed Lamb, dud????

We'd have him in a heartbeat.

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We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.

a lot of players been floated around in upcoming trade. A lot of discussion as to who we should be going for.
I bet we end up with scraps as most of these players have been linked to other clubs already.

Smedts? Gun in the making.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Slightly misleading.
You need to show the whole picture. Draft picks 1-5 pick themselves . They should be excluded from discussion. Excluding those picks and realising that trading takes away many picks, and also that we had a compromised draft, yields a different interpretation.
2005 murphy, kennedy, bower ...... Bower fail.100% fail
2006 gibbs hampson grigg (for me grigg a bust)......hampson grigg. 100% fail
2007 kreuzer no further pick judd to carlton not possible to rate
2008 yarran, no further pick warnock to carlton......hard to assess not a clear 100% win though.
2009 lucas, no further pick Mclean to carlton ....... Lucas fail 100% fail
2010 compromised draft only 1 pick Watson....... Watson fail. 100% fail
2011 compromised draft only 1 pick Bootsma............jury out too early
2012 compromised draft only 1 pick Menzel........... Seems a win. Barring injury. 100% win

Premiership 17,

I was a Hughes supporter until 2 years ago & I was wrong. Arguing that we have recruited well falls into declaring that the operation has been a success but the patient has died. It does not matter how you cut it, our list is a shambles and our result this year was propped up by luck and aging stars

BOG v Richmand Final
Judd - 30 years old
Waite - 30
Betts - 26
Simpson- 29
Gibbs - 25
Henderson - 24
Avg age = 27.3

Only 2 of those players were recruited in the draft proper. Menzel was the only drafted recruit that got a game that day who has been drafted since 2009.

That's right, although we probably should have gone after Gunstan. Hawthorn were always on the cusp and had a solid core of champions already set in place. We have less premiership worthy players and some of the top tear are under-performing. I bet Hawthorn fans were happy enough with their list where it stood and had no culture problems to top it off.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I thought we did, and were basically told to GAGF.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

An interesting case study would have been if Thornton went to Hawthorn all those years ago. Lucky we saved him!

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Get comfortable being uncomfortable

Always a little suspicious about clubs who can constantly stay near the top.

Is there ever a story about Geelong and the Hawks and salary cap pressure?

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Nope, but plenty about how players are willing to take pay-cuts to stay together.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

By whom were we told where to go and what did we offer Adelaide?

*Edit*

Don't worry, it was probably Gunstan himself that wasn't keen but I don't know how all that worked.

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I don't remember the particulars, but I recall we were out of the race very quickly.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Re Jed Lamb & Billie Smedts, happy to include if you're happy to remove Lucas from our list of duds..., ito be consistent (see 2013 comparison below).
My point is that we are overly critical of our own and overly praising of others.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying we shouldn't be critical and ruthless in our pursuit of excellence (and effort!) but it is not always roses on the other side of the fence either.

Averages for 2013
Lucas: Kicks 9.6, Handballs 8.5, Disposals 18.1, Marks 4.4, Tackles 2.1, Goals 0.5, Dreamteam 69.9
Lamb: Kicks 6.0, Handballs 3.8, Disposals 9.8, Marks 2.2, Tackles 2.1, Goals 0.7, Dreamteam 44.9
Smedts: Kicks 5.8, Handballs 5.0, Disposals 10.8, Marks 3.1, Tackles 3.1, Goals 0.9, Dreamteam 53.9

Lucas played 17 games, Lamb 12 and Smedts 13. Neither of them played finals.

Yeah, I thought it might have been a refusal to part with our first rounder but it might have been Gunstan himself that wasn't keen.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Gunstan's dad is high up at the bombers right?

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