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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:38 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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BV if we kicked straight late it would've been a massacre. We did kick more pts than North.

I would drop Army this week, give him the Robbo message.

Agree with your thoughts on Graham coming in, probably for Cachia, but replacing Scotland might be an option also.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:42 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Blue Vain wrote:
Carrazzo is playing OK. Like most of our midfield rotation, he's doing defensive roles. His job on Swallow was successful and he kept Swallow to 20 possies.
At some stage hopefully Mick will realise you cant keep tagging all the opposition players and be a successful team.
Gibbs on Ziebell was a farce. Sorry but Ziebell hasnt been that good.

Hopefully against GC we'll tag Ablett with Carrazzo, O'Meara with Curnow and let the others actually run a proper midfield combination.
At the moment Murphy and Judd are our only midfielders with a mindset of winning the ball.
Not only does it limit our ball winning, it gives the opposition the upper hand in the midfield structure. If Cachia cant contribute with purely tagging, drop him and bring in Graham.
Put Simpson back to the attacking wing as he has rediscovered his form and confidence after having his jaw smashed last year. Some of his marks were ultra courageous Fridaty night. It will also release Scotland back to his defensive wing role.
We have to see if he can cut it still as he's struggling minding a man. Perform or make way for someone else time for Scotland.

My team, bring in Robbo and Graham. Forget the bullshit forward tag for Robinson and place him, Graham and Gibbs into an offensive midfield rotation.
I forward tag (Armfield), 2 midfield tags (Ablett, O'Meara) and actually go out to win the ball.

Lets be honest, if North had kicked half straight when they dominated the game, they would have beaten us easily.
We cant expect to win many games winning 290 possessions. Once again we won the contested possessions but got smashed at the uncontested. Release some of the tags.


are they really tags or is mm trying to instil a man on man mindset?

weve only really known how to run one way so maybe still too hard for our players to grasp when to run forward v when to run back & theyre playing safe as a consequence.

just a theory


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:49 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2058
Blue Vain wrote:
Carrazzo is playing OK. Like most of our midfield rotation, he's doing defensive roles. His job on Swallow was successful and he kept Swallow to 20 possies.
At some stage hopefully Mick will realise you cant keep tagging all the opposition players and be a successful team.
Gibbs on Ziebell was a farce. Sorry but Ziebell hasnt been that good.

Hopefully against GC we'll tag Ablett with Carrazzo, O'Meara with Curnow and let the others actually run a proper midfield combination.
At the moment Murphy and Judd are our only midfielders with a mindset of winning the ball.
Not only does it limit our ball winning, it gives the opposition the upper hand in the midfield structure. If Cachia cant contribute with purely tagging, drop him and bring in Graham.
Put Simpson back to the attacking wing as he has rediscovered his form and confidence after having his jaw smashed last year. Some of his marks were ultra courageous Fridaty night. It will also release Scotland back to his defensive wing role.
We have to see if he can cut it still as he's struggling minding a man. Perform or make way for someone else time for Scotland.

My team, bring in Robbo and Graham. Forget the bullshit forward tag for Robinson and place him, Graham and Gibbs into an offensive midfield rotation.
I forward tag (Armfield), 2 midfield tags (Ablett, O'Meara) and actually go out to win the ball.

Lets be honest, if North had kicked half straight when they dominated the game, they would have beaten us easily.
We cant expect to win many games winning 290 possessions. Once again we won the contested possessions but got smashed at the uncontested. Release some of the tags.


agree

we will be shown up badly playing so many negative roles against the best teams

also need to focus on building a premiership team, not one that can beat middle of the road teams

bring in Graham


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:25 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Blisstonia.
doofdoof wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Carrazzo is playing OK. Like most of our midfield rotation, he's doing defensive roles. His job on Swallow was successful and he kept Swallow to 20 possies.
At some stage hopefully Mick will realise you cant keep tagging all the opposition players and be a successful team.
Gibbs on Ziebell was a farce. Sorry but Ziebell hasnt been that good.

Hopefully against GC we'll tag Ablett with Carrazzo, O'Meara with Curnow and let the others actually run a proper midfield combination.
At the moment Murphy and Judd are our only midfielders with a mindset of winning the ball.
Not only does it limit our ball winning, it gives the opposition the upper hand in the midfield structure. If Cachia cant contribute with purely tagging, drop him and bring in Graham.
Put Simpson back to the attacking wing as he has rediscovered his form and confidence after having his jaw smashed last year. Some of his marks were ultra courageous Fridaty night. It will also release Scotland back to his defensive wing role.
We have to see if he can cut it still as he's struggling minding a man. Perform or make way for someone else time for Scotland.

My team, bring in Robbo and Graham. Forget the bullshit forward tag for Robinson and place him, Graham and Gibbs into an offensive midfield rotation.
I forward tag (Armfield), 2 midfield tags (Ablett, O'Meara) and actually go out to win the ball.

Lets be honest, if North had kicked half straight when they dominated the game, they would have beaten us easily.
We cant expect to win many games winning 290 possessions. Once again we won the contested possessions but got smashed at the uncontested. Release some of the tags.


are they really tags or is mm trying to instil a man on man mindset?

weve only really known how to run one way so maybe still too hard for our players to grasp when to run forward v when to run back & theyre playing safe as a consequence.

just a theory


Agree. Lyon went through the same thing with Freo last year.

Turned a bunch of flaky front runners into one of the best defensive units in the AFL.

Didn't happen straight away. Had them 6-7 after 13 rounds. Only hit the 100 point mark in one game, and at times looked like they'd completely forgotten how to score....

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Last edited by Blueboy74 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:27 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 2477
This could be a loss or a win

50:50

Gold Coast will win a flag before Carlton's next flag I am afraid to say.....


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:29 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3255
Blue Vain wrote:
Carrazzo is playing OK. Like most of our midfield rotation, he's doing defensive roles. His job on Swallow was successful and he kept Swallow to 20 possies.
At some stage hopefully Mick will realise you cant keep tagging all the opposition players and be a successful team.
Gibbs on Ziebell was a farce. Sorry but Ziebell hasnt been that good.

Hopefully against GC we'll tag Ablett with Carrazzo, O'Meara with Curnow and let the others actually run a proper midfield combination.
At the moment Murphy and Judd are our only midfielders with a mindset of winning the ball.
Not only does it limit our ball winning, it gives the opposition the upper hand in the midfield structure. If Cachia cant contribute with purely tagging, drop him and bring in Graham.
Put Simpson back to the attacking wing as he has rediscovered his form and confidence after having his jaw smashed last year. Some of his marks were ultra courageous Fridaty night. It will also release Scotland back to his defensive wing role.
We have to see if he can cut it still as he's struggling minding a man. Perform or make way for someone else time for Scotland.

My team, bring in Robbo and Graham. Forget the bullshit forward tag for Robinson and place him, Graham and Gibbs into an offensive midfield rotation.
I forward tag (Armfield), 2 midfield tags (Ablett, O'Meara) and actually go out to win the ball.

Lets be honest, if North had kicked half straight when they dominated the game, they would have beaten us easily.
We cant expect to win many games winning 290 possessions. Once again we won the contested possessions but got smashed at the uncontested. Release some of the tags.


Super post BV. Agree 100%. Need to go more on the offensive.

What it highlights is our lack of midfield depth and quality at the club. Poor recruiting.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:47 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
King Kenny wrote:
BV if we kicked straight late it would've been a massacre. We did kick more pts than North.



A massacre? 1 more scoring shot?

At half time we had 22 inside 50s for 9 scoring shots. North had 15 scoring shots to our 9 and they had 5 out on the full. All gettable shots!
They had 10 marks inside 50 to our 3 and they had the ball in their forward half 58% of the time.
I thought our efforts in the 3rd quarter were excellent and our forward structure worked very well but we were lucky to still be in the game.
You wont win many games with 22 inside 50s in the first half.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:55 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm
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WOW wrote:
Ponkstar wrote:
Curnow will run with Ablett this week I think.


O'Meara is the other danger

He is the next Judd

GC will be scary now.


EfA

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:01 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm
Posts: 7359
Blueboy74 wrote:
doofdoof wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Carrazzo is playing OK. Like most of our midfield rotation, he's doing defensive roles. His job on Swallow was successful and he kept Swallow to 20 possies.
At some stage hopefully Mick will realise you cant keep tagging all the opposition players and be a successful team.
Gibbs on Ziebell was a farce. Sorry but Ziebell hasnt been that good.

Hopefully against GC we'll tag Ablett with Carrazzo, O'Meara with Curnow and let the others actually run a proper midfield combination.
At the moment Murphy and Judd are our only midfielders with a mindset of winning the ball.
Not only does it limit our ball winning, it gives the opposition the upper hand in the midfield structure. If Cachia cant contribute with purely tagging, drop him and bring in Graham.
Put Simpson back to the attacking wing as he has rediscovered his form and confidence after having his jaw smashed last year. Some of his marks were ultra courageous Fridaty night. It will also release Scotland back to his defensive wing role.
We have to see if he can cut it still as he's struggling minding a man. Perform or make way for someone else time for Scotland.

My team, bring in Robbo and Graham. Forget the bullshit forward tag for Robinson and place him, Graham and Gibbs into an offensive midfield rotation.
I forward tag (Armfield), 2 midfield tags (Ablett, O'Meara) and actually go out to win the ball.

Lets be honest, if North had kicked half straight when they dominated the game, they would have beaten us easily.
We cant expect to win many games winning 290 possessions. Once again we won the contested possessions but got smashed at the uncontested. Release some of the tags.


are they really tags or is mm trying to instil a man on man mindset?

weve only really known how to run one way so maybe still too hard for our players to grasp when to run forward v when to run back & theyre playing safe as a consequence.

just a theory


Agree. Lyon went through the same thing with Freo last year.

Turned a bunch of flaky front runners into one of the best defensive units in the AFL.

Didn't happen straight away. Had them 6-7 after 13 rounds. Only hit the 100 point mark in one game, and at times looked like they'd completely forgotten how to score....

That's the way I see it as well... if sacrificing 2013 means we're a better team 2014, I'm all for it.

Kinda hard to accept when your starved of success and want to play finals but it needs to be done.

Five years of downhill skiing takes a lot of reprogramming.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:01 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
doofdoof wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Carrazzo is playing OK. Like most of our midfield rotation, he's doing defensive roles. His job on Swallow was successful and he kept Swallow to 20 possies.
At some stage hopefully Mick will realise you cant keep tagging all the opposition players and be a successful team.
Gibbs on Ziebell was a farce. Sorry but Ziebell hasnt been that good.

Hopefully against GC we'll tag Ablett with Carrazzo, O'Meara with Curnow and let the others actually run a proper midfield combination.
At the moment Murphy and Judd are our only midfielders with a mindset of winning the ball.
Not only does it limit our ball winning, it gives the opposition the upper hand in the midfield structure. If Cachia cant contribute with purely tagging, drop him and bring in Graham.
Put Simpson back to the attacking wing as he has rediscovered his form and confidence after having his jaw smashed last year. Some of his marks were ultra courageous Fridaty night. It will also release Scotland back to his defensive wing role.
We have to see if he can cut it still as he's struggling minding a man. Perform or make way for someone else time for Scotland.

My team, bring in Robbo and Graham. Forget the bullshit forward tag for Robinson and place him, Graham and Gibbs into an offensive midfield rotation.
I forward tag (Armfield), 2 midfield tags (Ablett, O'Meara) and actually go out to win the ball.

Lets be honest, if North had kicked half straight when they dominated the game, they would have beaten us easily.
We cant expect to win many games winning 290 possessions. Once again we won the contested possessions but got smashed at the uncontested. Release some of the tags.


are they really tags or is mm trying to instil a man on man mindset?

weve only really known how to run one way so maybe still too hard for our players to grasp when to run forward v when to run back & theyre playing safe as a consequence.

just a theory


I agree.
We're getting smashed at the uncontested footy because our players are unsure when to run and spread.
I disagree about the concept of our players running one way though. The key is structural. They were being caught out because they are working hard to spread and create. (Which is what you want, hard running ball winners) Unfortunately our forward structure was unable to capitalise and the ball came out as fast as it went in. It also shows their opponents were refusing to chase and won the easy ball on the rebound. Its common at all clubs, (including Collingwood under Malthouse) not just ours.
With Henderson taking contested marks and Rowe giving a contest, we should have faith in our forwards to create a contest and lock the ball in.
Therefore the key should be to win more of the footy and give them more supply. You wont get that running defensive players all over the ground. And let's be honest, the players who are known for lacking a defensive game are still the ones allowed to run around on their own.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:12 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
This could be a loss or a win

50:50

Gold Coast will win a flag before Carlton's next flag I am afraid to say.....


Not so sure. GAJ, as sublime as he is, will start falling way in the next couple of years. It happens to all of them. Take him out of that side and they are just an exciting, emerging group but yet to have made their mark. THen there's the homesickness factor. Then there's the salary cap which will start to squeeze in a few years when they start paying overs to stop them going home to mum's cooking.

It all sounds great in theorybut the number of variables that get thrown up can put the best laid plans to rest

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:14 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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The have Martin to come in next year as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:18 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 6047
Hornet wrote:
Blueboy74 wrote:
doofdoof wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Carrazzo is playing OK. Like most of our midfield rotation, he's doing defensive roles. His job on Swallow was successful and he kept Swallow to 20 possies.
At some stage hopefully Mick will realise you cant keep tagging all the opposition players and be a successful team.
Gibbs on Ziebell was a farce. Sorry but Ziebell hasnt been that good.

Hopefully against GC we'll tag Ablett with Carrazzo, O'Meara with Curnow and let the others actually run a proper midfield combination.
At the moment Murphy and Judd are our only midfielders with a mindset of winning the ball.
Not only does it limit our ball winning, it gives the opposition the upper hand in the midfield structure. If Cachia cant contribute with purely tagging, drop him and bring in Graham.
Put Simpson back to the attacking wing as he has rediscovered his form and confidence after having his jaw smashed last year. Some of his marks were ultra courageous Fridaty night. It will also release Scotland back to his defensive wing role.
We have to see if he can cut it still as he's struggling minding a man. Perform or make way for someone else time for Scotland.

My team, bring in Robbo and Graham. Forget the bullshit forward tag for Robinson and place him, Graham and Gibbs into an offensive midfield rotation.
I forward tag (Armfield), 2 midfield tags (Ablett, O'Meara) and actually go out to win the ball.

Lets be honest, if North had kicked half straight when they dominated the game, they would have beaten us easily.
We cant expect to win many games winning 290 possessions. Once again we won the contested possessions but got smashed at the uncontested. Release some of the tags.


are they really tags or is mm trying to instil a man on man mindset?

weve only really known how to run one way so maybe still too hard for our players to grasp when to run forward v when to run back & theyre playing safe as a consequence.

just a theory


Agree. Lyon went through the same thing with Freo last year.

Turned a bunch of flaky front runners into one of the best defensive units in the AFL.

Didn't happen straight away. Had them 6-7 after 13 rounds. Only hit the 100 point mark in one game, and at times looked like they'd completely forgotten how to score....

That's the way I see it as well... if sacrificing 2013 means we're a better team 2014, I'm all for it.

Kinda hard to accept when your starved of success and want to play finals but it needs to be done.

Five years of downhill skiing takes a lot of reprogramming.

Correct Hornet. That's why I couldn't understand why some people were saying before the season that we should be top 4 in 2013.....

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:26 am 
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Geoff Southby
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doofdoof wrote:
are they really tags or is mm trying to instil a man on man mindset?

weve only really known how to run one way so maybe still too hard for our players to grasp when to run forward v when to run back & theyre playing safe as a consequence.

just a theory


I've thought that myself.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:30 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:17 am
Posts: 1053
Location: Deutschland
Blue Vain wrote:
King Kenny wrote:
BV if we kicked straight late it would've been a massacre. We did kick more pts than North.



A massacre? 1 more scoring shot?

At half time we had 22 inside 50s for 9 scoring shots. North had 15 scoring shots to our 9 and they had 5 out on the full. All gettable shots!
They had 10 marks inside 50 to our 3 and they had the ball in their forward half 58% of the time.
I thought our efforts in the 3rd quarter were excellent and our forward structure worked very well but we were lucky to still be in the game.
You wont win many games with 22 inside 50s in the first half.


Goes both ways though. If they had kicked straight early we might have been out of the game, but if we had kicked straight late on then we would have had a pretty comfortable win.

Not like North had a heap of inside 50s in the first half themselves. I think they had 28 to half time. At the end of the game, we had one more scoring shot, won by a point in a game that could have gone either way. We were a bit lucky to win, but if North had won I would say they were a bit lucky to win. I'll take the win thanks.

Anyway, I don't think this should be billed as a danger game for Carlton. Gold Coast at home are a better side than just being a danger game to the opposition. This is just a proper game against a pretty good side. Will need to be at or near our best to win. When you combine our loss last year to them and Collingwood's loss, I'm pretty sure we won't be complacent.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:31 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076
Blue Vain wrote:
King Kenny wrote:
BV if we kicked straight late it would've been a massacre. We did kick more pts than North.



A massacre? 1 more scoring shot?

At half time we had 22 inside 50s for 9 scoring shots. North had 15 scoring shots to our 9 and they had 5 out on the full. All gettable shots!
They had 10 marks inside 50 to our 3 and they had the ball in their forward half 58% of the time.
I thought our efforts in the 3rd quarter were excellent and our forward structure worked very well but we were lucky to still be in the game.
You wont win many games with 22 inside 50s in the first half.


What if!

We won, we took 4pts. Not my problem they choke.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:44 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
Yep, its hard to argue against the theorising and statistical data you've presented there. :thumbsup:

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:48 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Posts: 20076
Blue Vain wrote:
Yes, you've overwhelmed me with your theorising and statistical data there. :thumbsup:
How could I argue. :lol:


The stat that matters BV is the end result.

Now we move onto the GC with two wins behind us.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:55 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
Yep, let's hope for an improved performance and a percentage booster.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Collingwood did us a favour by losing to the Suns.
Some of the Gold Coast kids might get a bit ahead of themselves after a big win like that, and it ll force us to take Gold Coast more seriously now.

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