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 Post subject: Re: AGM 17 December
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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askruffy wrote:
Thanks DocSherrin, definitely want to hear your and other TC members thoughts. Want to stress that this is a personal initiative of mine to get more in touch with our members - hopefully this will help me serve Carlton better in whatever way I can.


Thanks Ruffy - and I commend you on this initiative - but I'll leave it to the current and prospective Carlton members to have their say. I am neither, although I will continue to support the club in other ways. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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This would appear to be true, but rather than being cynical about it, why not take the opportunity to ask the questions we want answered?

If we don't we can hardly blame the board if there's a perception they watch the underlings from ivory towers.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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PLEASE MAKE SURE WE DO NOT RECRUIT KYLE REIMERS!!! :mad:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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camelboy wrote:
PLEASE MAKE SURE WE DO NOT RECRUIT KYLE REIMERS!!! :mad:


Don't worry, we were just being trolled.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2012-12-04/r ... ue-revival


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Thanks for taking the initiative Ruffy and welcome to TC.

My question/comment pertains to long distance members. Firstly, please ensure that AGM voting rights are reinstated for long distance/non-Victorian members - we spend just as much money in other ways, sometimes more so in having to purchase flights, accomodation and tickets outside of our (poorly-suited) membership package to demonstrate our commitment to the Club. To be counted as a member, have our money taken as a member then be excluded from voting as a member trvialises the importance of your interstate members, of which there are a sizeable number and are often ex-Victorian/season members.

My next comment/suggestion about long distance memberships pertains to the fact that for many, the games they purchase as part of their membership are worthless. As a QLD member last year, we had two games - Brisbane (at the Gabba) and Gold Coast (at Metricon). Both of these games I had to purchase tickets for at sizeable cost, as they aren't included in my package - only Victorian games are.

Can you see a problem with this? I sign up as a long-distance member because I can't see many Victorian games. I have two games in my home state and both I have to pay extra for??!! It defies logic. I propose a redemption-style coupon whereby the Club can reimburse long distance members for a GA ticket purchased in their home state and take that off their 3 game tally. As it stood in 2012, I paid for every game I saw - in QLD or otherwise - as a result of the Vic games being deemed 'blockbusters.'

Surely it's not only important to connect with your interstate members, which I don't think is done very well, but also to try and (via membership drives/appearances in the offseason, competitions which apply only to interstate members etc) to increase membership outside of Victoria? We feel pretty neglected; not only are there very few away games which apply specifically to each given group (usually 1-2 a season), our membership doesn't cover them and we effectivley pay $130 for a scarf it's too hot to wear, a couple of magazines (total cost $20 at the Carlton Shop) and a personalised card which is never required as we never need to scan it! More tempting to sign up as an overseas member with no games, since we get little to no value from that part of the package.

Obviously this can't be changed for the 2013 season, but food for thought when thinking of ways to increase revenue/memberships - make our money worth it and think of ways to make us feel more connected - we don't get training, all the functions or hardly any games but are just as passionate as any Victorian member.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I agree with a lot of what Scotty said.

But I dont think its within the clubs control to an extent with having to pay for access to interstate games (even as an interstate member) as the ticketing wouldnt be controlled by the club.

I know being in WA and how shit Subiaco is - that to even get the chance of getting a ticket , i need to be a member to even get access to purchase a ticket and then also have to jump on the phone at 9am on the day they are released to try and secure and purchase a ticket.

This is due to the limited number of seats Subiaco/Eagles/Freo/AFL release for visiting clubs.

But overall yes - us ugly, inconvenient, unable to vote, insignificant interstate members do pay a lot of money for very little value and return from the club.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Hi Ruffy...

This disconnect that the club has with its members.. what do YOU believe it stems from and what needs to happen?
Surely you guys have discussed this.

This board is expanding like an accordion at an Italian wedding... Do you believe we have a well functioning board atm?

Why is this club still functioning through benefactor handouts at this time?Surely you agree it cant be healthy and its a reflection of the administrations being impotent?

Fourth .. we do get board members coming on around voting time it just seems to me its quite fake.. mingling in with the common man.. and then disappearing with nothing changing... (that was more a statement to you .. and im hoping you have a different focus being here.. but time will be the judge of that ....
What are you hoping to learn here?

Last.. i havent been a member for a bit.. and i wonder if the club is looking at disgruntled people like me and how it feels it will bring me back to the members fold.. (and others like me) or is it happy forgetting a bout those who have lost the faith and justhoping to pick up others instead of keeping those like myself and adding to us with new blood.

Obviously for as long as the club continues to run itself in a very unlike Carlton (The way i knew Carlton- cutting edge /inovative/proud masculine in a true way...) and instead it remains stale.. false bravado ... taking the mickey out of its supporters... leaving the rank and file out of the picture as it embracing some kind of elitst types.. people like me will stay away...
I am not one.. there is an army of me...if people dont believe me they can check where we sit on the membership table and where we should sit on the membership table...

Its about you guys find an edge for this club...

The club is a drone.. it doesnt think.. it doesnt talk.. it doesnt do anything.. its flavour is given to it by the people around the club... players.. members.. supporters.. sponsors..but al that is piloted by its board and administration.

I see an average club... and thats because the regime is average....stale

My questions and thoughts.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:28 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Hi Raphael,

I am a member as is the rest of my family, however from the large number of ex-members that we seem to have I would have thought the club would be better served with their direct telemarketing efforts calling lapsed members and asking them to renew rather than calling existing members and asking them to buy a ticket in the $200 Club Raffle.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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AGRO wrote:
Hi Raphael,

I am a member as is the rest of my family, however from the large number of ex-members that we seem to have I would have thought the club would be better served with their direct telemarketing efforts calling lapsed members and asking them to renew rather than calling existing members and asking them to buy a ticket in the $200 Club Raffle.


Great questions.

Thanks for joining TC Ruffy. Hopefully we can give you some ideas and our perspective on how the club is travelling.

Earlier in this thread a former board member made this post

Stephen M wrote:
Under the new system, there is no longer a process of having to be "registered" to vote. The new membership application form provides the necessary consent in terms of liability in the event of a winding up (to $50) and once a person pays for their membership or agrees to do so by instalments, that person is a registered member and entitled to vote if they become at least an 11 game member. A direct debit arrangement has been in place for at least the last year so hopefully this will result in a greater number of automatic renewals. Otherwise, it has always been a mystery as to why our membership renewals are so far behind other clubs. Personally, i think there is a view that "all will be right" because we are a wealthy club with many wealthy benefactors - which is far from the case. For some reason, we seem to have many apathetic supporters who don't purchase memberships. I well accept that there are also aggrieved supporters who won't take out membership for principle reasons, such as is the case with some long distance supporters.


Is this an accurate reflection of how the board sees supporters? As being apathetic and having an "all will be right" attitude?
Is it really a mystery why membership renewals are behind other clubs? If so, what are we doing, as a club, to encourage supporters to join earlier?
Do we have a realistic strategy to attract supporters and turn them into members? By realistic, I mean one that doesn't centre around us recruiting a new coach and getting off to a good start to the season.
What are we doing to make supporters feel valued and a real part of the club?

Recently we had an issue with an advertised training session, where supporters were encouraged to attend, starting early and finishing 10mins after the advertised start time. Has this been discussed at the club and has any action been taken to ensure it doesn't happen again? Does the club understand the effect things like this have on supporters and their 'apathetic' attitudes?

Thanks again for taking the time to join and hopefully answer as many questions as you can. We understand your time will be limited and you're also taking questions on other forums.

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 Post subject: Re: AGM 17 December
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Hi Ruffy,

Thanks for coming on. My questions have already been asked by others, particularly TrueBlueBrad.

I dare say you don't have time to go back and read this entire thread, but I wanted to draw your attention to some posts that I found interesting in the lead up to the AGM and election....

Stephen Moulton recently posted (see page 3 of this thread) the following-

Stephen M wrote:
...it has always been a mystery as to why our membership renewals are so far behind other clubs. Personally, i think there is a view that "all will be right" because we are a wealthy club with many wealthy benefactors - which is far from the case. For some reason, we seem to have many apathetic supporters who don't purchase memberships. I well accept that there are also aggrieved supporters who won't take out membership for principle reasons, such as is the case with some long distance supporters.


Here is how some posters (ie. Carlton supporters) responded to Stephen's comments-

Robert Heatley wrote:
...there is a perception that the club is all about the wealthy benefactors. I've been a member since I was 6 years old, I'm now 46. If I miss out on a seat at an Etihad sell out game or heaven forbid don't get a ticket to our next grand final, no one at Carlton will give a stuff. Right now Carlton is not the appealing proposition it once was - we are getting shown up for success principles by Geelong and Sydney (for crying out loud) I hate our supposed home ground, and I don't like the fact that we don't have a Carlton reserves team. I hate how we allow ourselves to be perceived in the media as tankers (the simple answer to that is to lock some of these journalists in a room and force them to watch all our games from 2002 to 2007 and see how crap we were from round 1 each season!) and how we lose the battle on 3rd party deals of which there are 80 odd, but we only hear about the Judd one. I want us to be professional but proud - defend us, promote us, but with better language and actions than "we are Carlton flower the rest".


bluegirl72 wrote:
...your post just affirms what many of us already think or know.
You guys are out of touch. You have no clue why we don't have more members, and worse, that old Carlton arrogance comes through in the way you blame 'apathetic supporters'. Really?
That's no way to talk to the life blood of the club now is it?
If people feel disenfranchised, and excluded, maybe it's because the club gives out the message that only wealthy benefactors are important. We're not apathetic. We follow the club despite its wretched attitude toward it's own members, it's crappy treatment of long term volunteers, and it's own staff.
We overlook the under performing and over serviced board room group, and a president who keeps telling us we've voted him in, when we haven't had a chance to vote for him until now.

You have a lot of work to do, if you want to really make everybody I AM CARLTON. Right now, that slogan is just a joke to many. We used to feel a part of this club. If you need the every day fans, and the Interstaters, then come down off your bloody high horses, get out of the Corporate boxes, and make the regular members feel like it's their club again. for real!!! geez.


Blue Vain wrote:
Some supporters want to feel included and appreciated. Others are just happy to pay their 100 bucks and go along to the footy. Until we can tap into the requirements of all the supporters and attempt to cater to their requirements, we're behind the 8 ball.
You dont have to meet the expectations of everyone but its negligent not to know their expectations.

Firstly, the club needs to understand that the supporters are not "apathetic". That is an excuse for a board that has failed to put the machinations in place to connect with the latent supporters and convert them into members.
It appears to me that we have a philosophy of replacement instead of renewal. Too many lapsed members are not followed up. Too many lapsed corporate supporters are not followed up. The strength of some of our opponents is they value all their members and make them feel included.
They dont advertise training sessions to see the new coach and finish the session 10 minutes after the advertised time. They dont get security guards to throw members out of training sessions. They set targets and put initiatives in place to achieve them instead of hoping it will happen.
They understand that content supporters equal increased merchandise sales, increased membership and more than often, membership retention.

Our recent 50 thousand supporters goal is a perfect example. Swann made the grand announcement about reaching 50 thousand but what initiatives did we put in place to achieve it? Even on this site many supporters were saying "if we win games, the supporters will come". That's not a plan. That's not an initiative.
Did we follow up lapsed members with phone calls? Several lapsed members I know weren't contacted. You only need 1 supporter out of a couple of hundred to re-sign to make it worthwhile. :?

Personally, I've previously supported the club in many of their initiatives. Family room, Kouta club, Blue suits, corporate boxes, match day functions for 20-30 people. Especially in the dark years when no-one wanted to know us.
In the past couple of years I've stopped doing it because I'm disappointed with the direction of the club.
If it was my business and a client dropped his annual contribution from 20k+ to $1200.00 per year, I'd want to know why. I'd follow it up and find out how we can offer better service.
I'd be assessing my own performance instead of making excuses about apathy and benefactors. It doesnt happen.

I appreciate the efforts of everyone who has given time to the board. Its a thankless job that eats into the time of people who have families and businesses and have chosen to help the club instead. But that doesnt mean we should accept less than ideal performance. Our board is stale and tired. It needs a huge shake up and infusion of young, energetic people who want to make a difference.
Thats where the apathy exists IMO.


I wanted to bring these posts to your attention as a way of highlighting the growing frustration and disconnection many of us are feeling towards our football club and those that represent it. I have been a continuous member for 20+ years (including 4 years when I was living overseas and saw no games but kept my full membership going as a way to support the club) and I am seriously considering cancelling my (Captain's Club) membership in 2013.

Ruffy, I can't tell you how much I love the club and how desperately I want to see us become the on-field and off-field power in the AFL that we were in the VFL. But there are many like me who are walking away....and the club doesn't seem to care. In fact, the perception coming back from the club is that we are 'apathetic'. Well, if there is any apathy I would say it's from the club towards its members.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Stamos wrote:
camelboy wrote:
PLEASE MAKE SURE WE DO NOT RECRUIT KYLE REIMERS!!! :mad:


Don't worry, we were just being trolled.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx


:thanks:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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thanks so much for your post aboynamedsue. :thumbsup:
Much appreciated.
it would be great if we do get a response and see some positive changes toward ongoing, past, and future members.
We never heard back from Stephen M after voicing our opinions.
I can' help but feel cynical about your appearance here at this time Ruffy.
However, I'm always hopeful that positive change can occur at our club, and as camel says, maybe something good can come from your listening in across a few forums.
cheers.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:15 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Ruffy, there has been a lot of talk from the club about it's dislike of the away jumper. Will it be replaced?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Welcome Ruffy.

The club continually states a goal to increase membership. I have not been a member for the last 3 years, I won't bore you with the reasons why. However, in that time I have fielded a grand sum of zero phone calls from CFC asking me to rejoin/why I lapsed, etc. Focusing on this area is surely an easy win for the club?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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An appropriate lapse in engagement...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Oh...and who the @#$%&! let that Sherrin idiot back in...? :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:03 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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GWS wrote:
Oh...and who the !@#$%& let that Sherrin idiot back in...? :lol:



I thought he got life, with no parole :grin:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:03 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Welcome Ruffy.

The club continually states a goal to increase membership. I have not been a member for the last 3 years, I won't bore you with the reasons why. However, in that time I have fielded a grand sum of zero phone calls from CFC asking me to rejoin/why I lapsed, etc. Focusing on this area is surely an easy win for the club?


This seems to be an alarmingly familiar tale.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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ColourMan wrote:
GWS wrote:
Oh...and who the !@#$%& let that Sherrin idiot back in...? :lol:



I thought he got life, with no parole :grin:


He had the decency to ask for a reprieve. Unlike a few others who continually slime their way back in through deceit and denial. :hitcomputer:

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