Travis Cloke for $5m over 5yrs: NO!!!

The Rhino · **Joined:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm **Posts:** 6923

GWS wrote:

All those players mentioned above are A grade midfielders and no club in it's right mind gives up an A grader for two "potential" good players unless the player has chosen to leave and they have no choice (see Judd & Ablett).

Paradigm shift in list management. I anticipate clubs may be keen to try and get something in return for their players rather than lose them for nothing, as well as be prepared to be more brazen with their recruiting strategies with certain barriers removed. I wonder how much other sporting codes took from the Dwight Howard debacle in the NBA this off-season.

Then again, I may just be motivated by the idea of getting Franklin ahead of Cloke, and see Murphy as a means to an end there.

Quote:

Any suggestion that Murphy's not A grade is absurd considering he's won the coaches award last year and finished equal 9th in the Brownlow.

Out of interest can anyone remember the last time a club voluntarily off loaded an A grade midfielder for a couple of pics?

To answer both - Woewodin was traded two years after winning the Brownlow, and on the scrap heap two years after that. Travis Johnstone to Brisbane for Jack Grimes would also be another one. I don't think he's A-grade. To split hairs - a very good B/B+ player, but a lack of flags, lack of games that you can point to and categorically claim that Murphy dominated from start to finish, or a Brownlow separate him from the absolute elite.

Quote:

If there are still flaws in Murphy's game (which there are - like all players) then that's a coaching issue and hopefully we now have a coach who will look at those and do something about them.

The guy's just turned 25 so his next 3 years should be when his strength peaks.

Lots to look forward to.

Agreed - but still think the money saved, and potential to add two players into an area we lack depth in (young midfielders), all the whilst using that money to have a genuine crack at Franklin or whoever the next best free agent is offers more in the long run. Having said that, if it is apparent that Franklin is out of reach, and the second best free agent available is not a better alternative than Murphy, I happily concede the idea that he's better off on our list, than not.

DocSherrin III · **Joined:** Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm **Posts:** 17210

JohnM wrote:

DocSherrin wrote:

If we've accomplished anything - we've (and Freo) probably forced Collingwood's hand in giving Cloke another year. He'll sign with the Pies before too long and the Carlton Football Club will not have a player called 'Travis' represent it at senior level for the 149th year in a row.

And long may this streak continue.

Travis Johnstone, Travis Tuck, Travis Cloke. Something happens to your kid when you name him Travis, and it ain't good.

Although it does come from the French word traverser or "to cross over"...so there you go Damian Barrett...Travis is French for 'to cross over'...flesh that story out on the Footy Show.

DB: 'Gary - Carlton are believed to have gone to the extraordinary steps of hiring a French language consultant'...
GL: 'A what?'
DB: 'A french language consultant... and what she has uncovered has...and I'll quote a senior Carlton official here 'Got Jeanne Pratt a little bit excited'.
Billy: Ooh
DB: 'It surrounds the Travis Cloke saga that's been dragging on for most of the season, and this is a Footy Show exclusive...with the assistance of Madame Tarczon...'
GL: 'Madame Tarczon?!'
DB: 'Madame Tarczon....the Blues have discovered that the meaning of 'Travis' is 'to cross over'. Now, having made this public this afternoon it's sent Collingwood President Eddie McGuire into what can only be described as a psychotic frenzy, and that's led to him calling an extraordinary press conference. Gary - we believe Collingwood will hold a press conference tomorrow at 10am - the reason for that press conference, we understand, is to announce they've signed former Carlton player Matthew Lappin to a 15 year contract extension.
Billy: 'Skinny!'
DB: 'On hearing this, Carlton have called their own press conference for tomorrow morning where they will unveil Des Fothergill as their 'small forwards coach'. Now, Fothergill has been dead for 16 years, but we've checked with AFL chief operating officer Gillon McLachlan as recently as an hour ago, and there's nothing in the rules preventing a club hiring a deceased person.'
JB: 'Quite extraordinary developments there Damo...we certainly couldn't afford Madame Tarczon down at North Melbourne'
Billy: 'You had no problem paying for Madame Tarczon at the Christmas party last year Jimbo'!

Cue Audience laughter. Cue footage of Bill streaking through Munich. Cue Gary laughter. Cue Gary crying on stretcher.

woof · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am **Posts:** 4919

The Rhino wrote:

woof wrote:

Boak just signed a two year deal making him the highest paid player at PA .... ''reported'' to be 700k a year.
I reckon you have no idea.

Boak's contract, signed under the circumstances of free agency is apples to Murphy's oranges. That's still an overall investment and commitment of 1.4 mill to Boak as opposed to 1.5 mill to Murphy.

Boak with unrestricted free agency at the end of that deal will probably go also, potentially leaving Port with nothing to show for their investment. Not to mention the extra money Port can afford to pay him with no-one else within cooee of being worth anything above 500k compared to similar amounts for Kreuzer, Gibbs, Waite, Judd, Betts and then potentially Yarran and Cloke as well.

Are you happy with the performance of that $1.5 million investment compared to other market alternatives?

You do realise that Boak is getting 1.4 over two years and Mark is getting 1.5 over 3 years.
I am happy that he is in a Carlton jumper and you said there was a big difference in $$$ which is utter rubbish.

The Rhino · **Joined:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm **Posts:** 6923

Fair point - slight over-estimation there (although I stand by the other two). Having said that - come 2 years time when both are out of contract, can't see Boak getting much more, other than perhaps in line with TPP increase. Murphy will probably command much more, on the weight of no Judd and veteran list eligibility alone.

In that time - Boak will have played 2 seasons with Port, assuming they haven't folded or relocated, for probably a mid table finish at best both times. Murphy will have probably had 2 good to very good years, maybe an All Australian, maybe a good finish in the Brownlow. I'd be surprised if there's a flag involved. Not much difference in the wash up.

JohnM · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:26 pm

DocSherrin wrote:

JohnM wrote:

DocSherrin wrote:

If we've accomplished anything - we've (and Freo) probably forced Collingwood's hand in giving Cloke another year. He'll sign with the Pies before too long and the Carlton Football Club will not have a player called 'Travis' represent it at senior level for the 149th year in a row.

And long may this streak continue.

Travis Johnstone, Travis Tuck, Travis Cloke. Something happens to your kid when you name him Travis, and it ain't good.

Although it does come from the French word traverser or "to cross over"...so there you go Damian Barrett...Travis is French for 'to cross over'...flesh that story out on the Footy Show.

DB: 'Gary - Carlton are believed to have gone to the extraordinary steps of hiring a French language consultant'...
GL: 'A what?'
DB: 'A french language consultant... and what she has uncovered has...and I'll quote a senior Carlton official here 'Got Jeanne Pratt a little bit excited'.
Billy: Ooh
DB: 'It surrounds the Travis Cloke saga that's been dragging on for most of the season, and this is a Footy Show exclusive...with the assistance of Madame Tarczon...'
GL: 'Madame Tarczon?!'
DB: 'Madame Tarczon....the Blues have discovered that the meaning of 'Travis' is 'to cross over'. Now, having made this public this afternoon it's sent Collingwood President Eddie McGuire into what can only be described as a psychotic frenzy, and that's led to him calling an extraordinary press conference. Gary - we believe Collingwood will hold a press conference tomorrow at 10am - the reason for that press conference, we understand, is to announce they've signed former Carlton player Matthew Lappin to a 15 year contract extension.
Billy: 'Skinny!'
DB: 'On hearing this, Carlton have called their own press conference for tomorrow morning where they will unveil Des Fothergill as their 'small forwards coach'. Now, Fothergill has been dead for 16 years, but we've checked with AFL chief operating officer Gillon McLachlan as recently as an hour ago, and there's nothing in the rules preventing a club hiring a deceased person.'
JB: 'Quite extraordinary developments there Damo...we certainly couldn't afford Madame Tarczon down at North Melbourne'
Billy: 'You had no problem paying for Madame Tarczon at the Christmas party last year Jimbo'!

Cue Audience laughter. Cue footage of Bill streaking through Munich. Cue Gary laughter. Cue Gary crying on stretcher.

Far too entertaining for the footy show.

GWS · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:28 pm

Woewoedin's Brownlow was a joke then and still is.

No-one with multiple brain cells ever rated him an A grader.

Don't think he would have won the AFLCA's award that year if they'd had one.

GWS · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:31 pm

DocSherrin wrote:

Although it does come from the French word traverser or "to cross over"...so there you go Damian Barrett...Travis is French for 'to cross over'...flesh that story out on the Footy Show.

DB: 'Gary - Carlton are believed to have gone to the extraordinary steps of hiring a French language consultant'...
GL: 'A what?'
DB: 'A french language consultant... and what she has uncovered has...and I'll quote a senior Carlton official here 'Got Jeanne Pratt a little bit excited'.
Billy: Ooh
DB: 'It surrounds the Travis Cloke saga that's been dragging on for most of the season, and this is a Footy Show exclusive...with the assistance of Madame Tarczon...'
GL: 'Madame Tarczon?!'
DB: 'Madame Tarczon....the Blues have discovered that the meaning of 'Travis' is 'to cross over'. Now, having made this public this afternoon it's sent Collingwood President Eddie McGuire into what can only be described as a psychotic frenzy, and that's led to him calling an extraordinary press conference. Gary - we believe Collingwood will hold a press conference tomorrow at 10am - the reason for that press conference, we understand, is to announce they've signed former Carlton player Matthew Lappin to a 15 year contract extension.
Billy: 'Skinny!'
DB: 'On hearing this, Carlton have called their own press conference for tomorrow morning where they will unveil Des Fothergill as their 'small forwards coach'. Now, Fothergill has been dead for 16 years, but we've checked with AFL chief operating officer Gillon McLachlan as recently as an hour ago, and there's nothing in the rules preventing a club hiring a deceased person.'
JB: 'Quite extraordinary developments there Damo...we certainly couldn't afford Madame Tarczon down at North Melbourne'
Billy: 'You had no problem paying for Madame Tarczon at the Christmas party last year Jimbo'!

Cue Audience laughter. Cue footage of Bill streaking through Munich. Cue Gary laughter. Cue Gary crying on stretcher.

Not particularly believable Doc.

You've got Billy Brownless speaking three times and not using the word "frothy" once! :beer:

The Rhino · **Joined:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm **Posts:** 6923

GWS wrote:

Woewoedin's Brownlow was a joke then and still is.

No-one with multiple brain cells ever rated him an A grader.

Don't think he would have won the AFLCA's award that year if they'd had one.

Of course it was a joke. Kouta was robbed. However no less relevant than Murphy finishing 9th last year. Collingwood still ended up paying fairly close to A-grade rates (perhaps irrelevant to the multiple brain cell idea just the same) for a player who was in the WAFL two years later.

mjs · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:41 pm

GWS wrote:

DocSherrin wrote:

Although it does come from the French word traverser or "to cross over"...so there you go Damian Barrett...Travis is French for 'to cross over'...flesh that story out on the Footy Show.

DB: 'Gary - Carlton are believed to have gone to the extraordinary steps of hiring a French language consultant'...
GL: 'A what?'
DB: 'A french language consultant... and what she has uncovered has...and I'll quote a senior Carlton official here 'Got Jeanne Pratt a little bit excited'.
Billy: Ooh
DB: 'It surrounds the Travis Cloke saga that's been dragging on for most of the season, and this is a Footy Show exclusive...with the assistance of Madame Tarczon...'
GL: 'Madame Tarczon?!'
DB: 'Madame Tarczon....the Blues have discovered that the meaning of 'Travis' is 'to cross over'. Now, having made this public this afternoon it's sent Collingwood President Eddie McGuire into what can only be described as a psychotic frenzy, and that's led to him calling an extraordinary press conference. Gary - we believe Collingwood will hold a press conference tomorrow at 10am - the reason for that press conference, we understand, is to announce they've signed former Carlton player Matthew Lappin to a 15 year contract extension.
Billy: 'Skinny!'
DB: 'On hearing this, Carlton have called their own press conference for tomorrow morning where they will unveil Des Fothergill as their 'small forwards coach'. Now, Fothergill has been dead for 16 years, but we've checked with AFL chief operating officer Gillon McLachlan as recently as an hour ago, and there's nothing in the rules preventing a club hiring a deceased person.'
JB: 'Quite extraordinary developments there Damo...we certainly couldn't afford Madame Tarczon down at North Melbourne'
Billy: 'You had no problem paying for Madame Tarczon at the Christmas party last year Jimbo'!

Cue Audience laughter. Cue footage of Bill streaking through Munich. Cue Gary laughter. Cue Gary crying on stretcher.

Not particularly believable Doc.

You've got Billy Brownless speaking three times and not using the word "frothy" once! :beer:

I though that it was "froffy" in Bill's lexicon :lol:

BigKev · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:56 pm

AGRO wrote:

keogh wrote:

I say no to the Cloke deal. We give up too much for him.

That's why we are in this pickle now.

We gave up too much for Judd
We gave up too much for McLean
We gave up too much for Warnock

That's the beauty of free agency we actually don't have to give up any players or draft picks to trade for Cloke - all we sacrifice is salary cap space, but all the same I don't think we should go after him.

Agree. The problem as I see it is that to get him we'd have to make an offer that Collingwood are not prepared to match.
If the offer was at all reasonable, they'd match it and keep him.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 17951

Just admit you were wrong Rhino.
It's a lot more time effective than trying to justify a crazy comment. :wink:

The Rhino · **Joined:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm **Posts:** 6923

Which I'm sure you'll also be doing in due time re: Malthouse?

Not sure how having an opinion on something that probably won't ever happen can be considered right or wrong...

Pafloyul · **Joined:** Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:15 pm **Posts:** 4842

The Rhino wrote:

Which I'm sure you'll also be doing in due time re: Malthouse?

Not sure how having an opinion on something that probably won't ever happen can be considered right or wrong...

We'll have a clearer view in roughly three years time when and if a premiership happens.

On a similar note, what exactly is a 'rebuild' and how do you even do it without bottoming out? People seem to think of list management in black and white terms (definitely no pun intended). The Saints, for example, probably thought they were 'set' with the likes of Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Hayes, Ball and even the Clarke brothers and Farren Ray. Look how that turned out. The last thing we want to do is get smug about our playing list.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 17951

The Rhino wrote:

Which I'm sure you'll also be doing in due time re: Malthouse?

Not sure how having an opinion on something that probably won't ever happen can be considered right or wrong...

Mate, I tell you what.
If Malthouse doesn't act like a silly old buggar. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. :lol:

As for your comment. I'm not saying its wrong. I'm saying its ridiculous. :wink:

But of course, thats just my opinion!

The Rhino · **Joined:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm **Posts:** 6923

Pafloyul wrote:

The Rhino wrote:

Which I'm sure you'll also be doing in due time re: Malthouse?

Not sure how having an opinion on something that probably won't ever happen can be considered right or wrong...

We'll have a clearer view in roughly three years time when and if a premiership happens.

On a similar note, what exactly is a 'rebuild' and how do you even do it without bottoming out? People seem to think of list management in black and white terms (definitely no pun intended). The Saints, for example, probably thought they were 'set' with the likes of Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Hayes, Ball and even the Clarke brothers and Farren Ray. Look how that turned out. The last thing we want to do is get smug about our playing list.

I think a rebuild and bottoming out are pretty much one in the same, save for teams who get lucky with a lowish draft pick coming good.

It'd be easier for a team like Melbourne to rebuild/bottom out, as they've got so much shit on their list like we did in 07, that no-one wants to trade for, at the age close to retirement age, or earning what they're worth - @#$%&! all.

If the next couple of years pre-Judd retirement goes pear shaped, we've got plenty of players who are probably paid more than what any other club would pay for them, plenty who would attract little to no interest from clubs, and not many in that bracket ready for retirement.

Our list is frighteningly similar to that of Essendon* around 2003/4.

camel · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:38 pm

HE'S COMING!

camel · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:39 pm

NO HE'S NOT!

DocSherrin III · **Joined:** Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm **Posts:** 17210

Sounds like you're watching some decent Ron Jeremy footage Camel!

Siegfried · **Joined:** Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm **Posts:** 2862

Blue Vain wrote:

The Rhino wrote:

Which I'm sure you'll also be doing in due time re: Malthouse?

Not sure how having an opinion on something that probably won't ever happen can be considered right or wrong...

Mate, I tell you what.
If Malthouse doesn't act like a silly old buggar. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. :lol:

Of course he's going to act like a silly old bugger. Always has, always will. The question is only whether he can transform our team, and help transform our Club, into a well oiled, well run, disciplined, genuine contender.

Blueboy_Dan · **Joined:** Sun May 08, 2005 1:09 am **Posts:** 5245

So umm any info on Cloke? Thread has gone completely off topic...

Travis Cloke for $5m over 5yrs: NO!!!

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