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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:20 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Anencephalic wrote:
So let me get this right.

Sack a coach after the result of one game? Since when does one swallow make a summer? Hey Collingwood lost to us by bigger margins and more often. Should they sack Buckley?

Sacking Ratten now would be giving Mick Malthouse huge leverage over us. Basically he would be the only option and he would then have Carlton over a barrel. His saying that it now or never and that Ratts should be sacked first would WEAKEN Carlton. Not to mention financially Carlton would be weakened dramatically.

I would hope the quick fix mentality has gone. Hopefully Sticks is true to his word and it is going to be a well considered process at the end of the season. If we are going to appoint MM instead of Ratts it would have to be a month after the end of the season for it to at least have the appearance of proper due process.


When did he say that? He said a review, nothing about a process. He hasn't even said we need a new coach yet.

Who says Ratten was sacked over one game? IMO he was gone long ago.

Who says Malthouse hasn't already done a deal? Maybe we are Malthouses only option and we have him over a barrel.

If you have any idea regarding Club finances you will know that this is not a backward step.

This is not about a quick fix. This is about getting the right person. The club now believes Ratten wasn't it. What do they do? Keep him anyway.

Too many people are making too many conclusions without knowing what is going on.

Let it play out. Things may well be going better than you think.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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ThePsychologist wrote:
BigKev wrote:
verbs wrote:
Set your watch folks.

2002
2007
2012


We learning yet?

Seems not. :sad:


Why not? 5 years to prove yourself seems pretty generous to me.


Malthouse needed 10 to get a flag at Collingwood. (which was 16 years between flags according to Sheedy).
Thompson ... was it eight at Geelong?
IMO Rattens performance was no where near deserving of an early dismissal, (assuming this is what has happened).


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:22 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I actually wondered something similar, that whoever Ratts told leaked it for whatever reason.

Don't think Jay Clark will be invited on any more club junkets though!

Ockham's Razor wrote:
What if Ratts was told last night - in order to allow him dignity of a farewell game & being told to as soon as a decision was made.

What if Ratts didn't react privately in a manner the club expected?

What if Ratts' trusted confidants advised the media?

What if The club was then over a barrel and tried to hose the speculation down today?

What if the frenzy developed a life of its own - the club then needed to call tomorrow's presser rather than wait til next week as planned.

What if a handshake deal was agreed to weeks ago and MM doesn't have the club by the balls?

What if MM's posturing is just part of the public face of the dance?

Maybe the club isn't as bad/ineffective/shortsighted in all areas as some are suggesting.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Stamos wrote:
Ockham's Razor wrote:
Hope you are wrong.

You are assuming that the appointments in 02 & 07 are as sound (or otherwise) as the one we are facing into?


Given that all the rumours point to us getting Malthouse without doing a proper review, how could you not make this assumption?
It smacks of Pagan.


Who says a proper review hasn't been undertaken?

As you say "all the rumours....". The reality of the developments isn't for public consumption.

The media fuel the public rumour mill, don't believe all that is written or said in the media. A review commenced quite some time ago.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Anencephalic wrote:
So let me get this right.

Sack a coach after the result of one game? Since when does one swallow make a summer? Hey Collingwood lost to us by bigger margins and more often. Should they sack Buckley?

Sacking Ratten now would be giving Mick Malthouse huge leverage over us. Basically he would be the only option and he would then have Carlton over a barrel. His saying that it now or never and that Ratts should be sacked first would WEAKEN Carlton. Not to mention financially Carlton would be weakened dramatically.

I would hope the quick fix mentality has gone. Hopefully Sticks is true to his word and it is going to be a well considered process at the end of the season. If we are going to appoint MM instead of Ratts it would have to be a month after the end of the season for it to at least have the appearance of proper due process.


I dont believe the decision comes after one game. It seems to me as though there are a number of issues during the season that warrants the club to make the decision that Rattens time is up. We probably will never know these exact reasons but I am certain that these decision makers have the insight and intelligence to do what is right for the CFC.

I don't believe someone who is interesting in becoming part of an organisation starts their relationship by holding the very same organisation to ransom.

Financially speaking, would you rather the club makes decisions based on money or would you prefer it to make decisions based on what they believe to be the successful path of the club? That to me is a smarter financial decision.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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No matter how u look at it...

ratts had a job at the club as coach for some years.....

and we gave him 2 more years before we came to the conclusion he wasnt any good.. and we should change him.

that was half the way into his first term of thsat contract...

so youd have to call that

bad judgement

and a waste of money

benefactors will pay... but maybe if they made the right choices... the benefactors could have been nice enough to put that cash towards the debt

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Get Brittain.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Ockham's Razor wrote:
Who says a proper review hasn't been undertaken?

As you say "all the rumours....". The reality of the developments isn't for public consumption.

The media fuel the public rumour mill, don't believe all that is written or said in the media. A review commenced quite some time ago.


Fair enough.
And if our new coach isn't Malthouse, I'll be mighty impressed.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:27 pm 
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formerly cj69

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BigKev wrote:
IMO Rattens performance was no where near deserving of an early dismissal, (assuming this is what has happened).


In a lot of ways its not about his performance so far.

The decision has to made that after 5 years as Senior Coach of the club is Ratten the best person to get us a Premiership?

It is a lot easier to go from last to 6-8th than it is to go from there to a GF. Big difference.

The club obviously felt that he had done his best but to go to the next level we needed someone else.

If MM comes in he will have the luxury of being able to build on what Ratten & others have established. A talented list, some finals experience etc.

Now its up to MM to go to the next step.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:29 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Synbad wrote:
No matter how u look at it...

ratts had a job at the club as coach for some years.....

and we gave him 2 more years before we came to the conclusion he wasnt any good.. and we should change him.

that was half the way into his first term of thsat contract...

so youd have to call that

bad judgement

and a waste of money

benefactors will pay... but maybe if they made the right choices... the benefactors could have been nice enough to put that cash towards the debt


Synners,

As you know things change over time, so do power bases on boards :wink:

Just because " the board" reappointed Ratts at a point in time, doesn't mean that a shift in power bases hasn't since occurred and a new direction has been taken.

Many agree that a change was needed, it's happening, let's look forward to more developments.

OR

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Hell, this is how it nearly always ends for AFL coaches, they know that. There's no good way to do it, just stick the knife in quickly and move on. It's just very sad when it's a favourite son being removed, nothing new there though. If I remember correctly Big Nick was retired from playing against his will.

I was more annoyed at the way Brittain was shafted and replaced with Pagan back in '02. When Pagan's tenure was then extended even before the current contract was up after one half decent season... Who was the last CFC coach to actually see out their contract? Parkin?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:32 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Ockham's Razor wrote:
Many agree that a change was needed, it's happening, let's look forward to more developments.

OR


I'm excited! :smoking:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:33 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Synbad wrote:
No matter how u look at it...

ratts had a job at the club as coach for some years.....

and we gave him 2 more years before we came to the conclusion he wasnt any good.. and we should change him.

that was half the way into his first term of thsat contract...

so youd have to call that

bad judgement

and a waste of money

benefactors will pay... but maybe if they made the right choices... the benefactors could have been nice enough to put that cash towards the debt


A lot can happen in the time Ratts got his extension to now. I would say unless you win a premiership, every decision can be seen as bad judgement. That makes a hell of a lot of bad judgement from every club, every year. That is the game we are in. You take a risk, make the call and try to have success. If it doesn't work out you start again but if you don't take risks you won't have the chance.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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We can be pretty confident Ratts' head won't be the only one to roll.

There are people pushing for more than a change of coach.

There is a recognition that the problems are deeper than that.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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Unfortunately there is no dignified way to sack a coach. It happens all the time in every sporting arena.

Was Brett Ratten the best coach available to take us forward? If the answer is NO then the board have made the right call.

I don't hear any Freo supporters sooking over Mark Harvey. Look at them now.

I can't believe that some people are comparing this to the Pagan era. Our list today as compared to 2003 is like night and day. As much as I love Ratts I don't think he had the ability to get the best out of every individual on a weekly basis. Sure we've had some great moments over the last few years especially at the MCG but we need to take that next step and become ruthless. A team of mongrels who play for the jumper and each other. Every single week not every second week.

Now is the time to bring in an experienced hard arsed coach.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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kennyhunter wrote:
We can be pretty confident Ratts' head won't be the only one to roll.

There are people pushing for more than a change of coach.

There is a recognition that the problems are deeper than that.


Do you agree with that?

Or do you believe that there is a over dramatic theme to all this?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Ockham's Razor wrote:
What if the Port game was a key point in the season :wink:


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/brett-rattens-tenure-began-to-look-shaky-after-port-loss/story-e6frexx0-1226459336436

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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kennyhunter wrote:
We can be pretty confident Ratts' head won't be the only one to roll.

There are people pushing for more than a change of coach.

There is a recognition that the problems are deeper than that.


Do you know any specifics Kenny?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:54 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Siegfried wrote:
kennyhunter wrote:
We can be pretty confident Ratts' head won't be the only one to roll.

There are people pushing for more than a change of coach.

There is a recognition that the problems are deeper than that.


Do you know any specifics Kenny?


If MM does come in the deal will be that he can appoint his own people.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:56 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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ThePsychologist wrote:
If MM does come in the deal will be that he can appoint his own people.


:sly: I'm not sure that applies to the board or the admin, though.


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