There is a post in the Talking Players forum saying that Waite's back condition wasn't known until mid this year.

So we have:

1 player recovering from cancer (Rowe)
1 player with a serious back condition unknown until this year (Waite)
3 players with broken bones (Carrazzo, Murphy, Simpson)
2 players with structural knee issues (Laidler, Hampson)

That's some seriously shit luck.

4th chook I referred to that analysis done by the AFL rather than any other because I thought it had merit and would be more objective than fans doing their own analysis l consider that both have outperformed us this year with a similar amount of injuries not sure who they had in our best 22- bald fact - west coast have won 3 more games and the bush 4 more than us
We are 12th with little prospect of finals looking at it objectively both west coast and collingwood will play finals

Injuries are a contributing factor but not a predominant factor - given only about 3 people on our list mclean collins betts it could be argued could lay claim to improving this year I would think that would indicate why there has been a diminution of output this year
How is the performance of the following senior players this year (who havent been out injured too often this year) judd scotland gibbs jamison gartlett russell thorton curnow joseph compared to last year

Before they were injured was the form of waite yarran knockers simpson better than last year - maybe murph and hendo before they were injured were as good as last year

Lets hope our players aren't as meek as many of the our "supporters" are.....

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Feelgood Hit of the Winter - GHRP-2, GHRP-6, CJC-1295, AOD-9604, Humanofort and Hexarelin

$20k on Richmond tomorrow, thats what I think of our chances.

All I hope is our kids do well, thats all that matters now.

His injury issues were clearly evident before this year even started.

Extremely poor management from the club.

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Rich have won 2 of their last 6 games, only beat Melb and GWS (12pts) and lost to Gold Coast but you are confident they will thrash us. Save your money.

It's a fantasy comp

I only ever bet $2 of real money a week.

and that was my point - it's typical light media 'analysis' - As I stated in my previous post, we have actually had a lot more long term injuries than the pies/WC once you consider the entire list. That is a fact - if you believe otherwise feel free to go through the injury reports of all 3 teams for the season.

The point is, that having your depth players available to come into the team and contribute is a very important component to having a successful season. Do you disagree with the statement that we've had a lot more long term injuries to non-first 22 players than either WC and pies? - If so, make an effort to state why you believe this to be the case (rather than I read a shallow media piece so it must be true)

rowe, mitchell, casboult, davies, white, bell & ROK - all mature bodied, non-established in first 22 players and all that might have been expected to contribute to the team at some point this year. Do you disagree with this?

Or perhaps you are suggesting that long term injuries to rowe, mitchell, casboult, davies, white, bell & ROK are all useless because they've never done much/never will amount to anything and would not have been able to provide any meaningful contribution to the team this year had they been not had injury interrupted seasons? (as some people seem to suggest around here)

Or perhaps you are suggesting that carlton having 9 long term injuries to non-22 players (including bray/buckley) is the same as WC and collingwood having 3-5 medium-long term injuries to non-first 22 players?




What about
- watson?
- mcinness?
- hampson? (taking contested marks, hitting the scoreboard etc)
- robinson? (statistically the same as last year but in the absence of murphy/carazzo - suggested by some as possibility for BnF)
- bower? (had a shit 2011)

You could even mount a cases for
- ellard (less games but has averaged 5+ more possessions/game 14.6-19.
- joseph? (11 games thus far, 11 in total last year, will play more games - slight improvement in game stats)
- curnow (12 games thus far, 12 in total last year, will play more games - slight improvement in game stats)
- armfield (15 games thus far, 15 in total last year, will play more games - slight improvement in game stats)



So lets address them
Judd - do you forget shoulder issues from pre-season? or reports that he was carrying an niggle for part of the year/desperately needed the bye? (take your pick - news reports, rattens press conference, rumours here). Furthermore, has he really been that down? (given the extra load from carazzo/murphy absences)

Judd - up until round 16 (2011 v 2012)
games with < 20 possessions - 2011 - 1, 2012 - 2
games with < 25 possessions - 2011 - 6, 2012 - 6
games with >30 possessions - 2011 - 5, 2012 - 4

Lets not forget that Judd is currently having 4 weeks off (so will return with a fresh body IF we can push for finals) - compare that to last year where he finished the year with 3 sub 20 possession games in our last 4 games for the season.

Scotland - wondering what you expected from his this year? - he is actually averaging more possessions (+1.1/games) and tackles (+0.9/game)

Gibbs - yup he is down on last year. Only slightly though. He is also playing a different role and has been asked to fill a lot more gaps due to injuries in the back half.

jamison - A huge drop off from last year and I wouldnt have mind seeing him out of the team on occasion. But I'm wondering whether you'd forgotten about his back (pre-season, couldnt play until rd 3) and the reported ongoing shoulder issues

garlett - A huge drop off from last year and probably should have been dropped at one point. Speculation but perhaps fatherhood at such a young age has had an impact on his preparation for the game?

Russell - Dropped off from last year a fair bit.

Thornton - dropped 3 times this season so down from last year though its worth mentioning that last time he was apparently 'dropped' he was actually out injured with a glut strain (missed several weeks in the ants as well).

Curnow - statistically the same (slight improvement) and will play more games than last year. Was great at the start of last year, then rubbish post shoulder.

Joseph - statistically the same (slight improvement) and will play more games than last year.



waite - yes, he was as good as last year. In fact, he was arguably better this year than last. Is actually up in possessions (+.7/game, only the 3rd time in 10 seasons with 15+/game), marks (+1.4/game - career high 8.3/game) and goals (+0.5/game, again career high). In 2011, waite kicked 3 goals once and it took hi til rd 15 to do so - in 2012, he did it twice in the early games (bags of 3 & 5).

Yarran - his first 2 games were good actually. In rd 3 & 4 he had 13 & 12 possession games before succumbing to a toe injury. Whether he has been good compared to last year would depend on whether you take into account the corresponding period last year (first 3-4 rds, which included a 4 possessions game) and the exact point as to when his toe issues first arose, rd 3 or 4, how far through the game etc). I dont think its unreasonable to say that he was comparable to last year

warnock - actually STARTED the year injured with double shoulder ops and didnt resume in the VFL until several rds in... - I dont think its unreasonable to suggest that having both shoulders operated on might affect a ruckman?

simpson - was statistically identical when compared to last year (-0.1 possessions, -0.7 marks, +0.2 goals, same tackles - all/game basis). So again comparable.

murphy
2012 (pre-injury) - first 7 games he averaged 28.9 possessions/game (includes 1 game of 17 possessions, 2011 average was 29.1), had the same goal average as 2011 (take behinds into account and 2012 has a higher shots of goal average) but was down by 0.5 tackles/game. Again, comparable

hendo - has first 5 games of the year (15 possessions, 6 marks) were better than his 2011 averages (11.5 & 4.7 respectively). He then struggled for the next 3 games (drops to 9 possession, 4 mark average) before finally missing with injury. Do you think it might be remotely possible that he was carrying an injury during those 3 games? Even if you took those 3 games into account, henderson has actually performed better than last year (+1.5 possessions, +0.6 mark averages compared to 2011)

So Frank, in light of the above perhaps you should consider reassessing our injuries and the performances of certain players?

So overall.. you are mounting a case we are a better side than last year... minus a few injuries.

Ok...

first , id like to ask if we are playing the same kind of game as last year .. if youre looking at st atistics.
Next how is the effectiveness if all those guys statistics???
Are they more effective with the ball or less effective???
Cos you keep using the words "better than last year" and stringing that with some statistics.

It really is about who is more effective not what statistics they get....

Anyway... keep at it.....

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I havent done that at all - I addressed specific players performances in response to franks questions. Feel free to keep trying to put words into my mouth to suit your agenda though



We havent been able to maintain last year's game plan because we've had a significant run of injuries to both our top 22 and many of the depth players that have affected the team has been structured this year.

You clearly dont accept that we've had significant injuries to our depth players as you consider them all shit due to not having played enough games/shown enough for you.

Rather than asking random questions and then ignoring answers - feel free to try and contribute to discussion.

Look we cant play last years game plan because the game is different today.
Its a rugby scrum in the middle of the park with numbers around the ball.....


anyway... keep at it.... youve convinced yourself... thats one ...

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Enter Tom Bell.

missed around 8 weeks with a back injury - buts thats ok - he was shit b/c he had never played any games before...

Now that he has played a couple he is not so shit

Bell and others have only got a game out of absolute necessity and that's what's disappointing....

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Bell didnt play VFL until mid may due to a back injury. Given the number of byes in the VFL system, how could we have realistically picked him much earlier?

Do you honestly believe he would have gotten a game if not for injuries? Based on our selections history?....I'm not sure if you do but I don't....

_________________
"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

The fact we lost a host of KP forwards (backups included) all at once is the biggest contributor to where we are at currently.
Whether we like it or not, injuries played a big part of what happened to us in 2012.
Yes, I've been critical of our coaches structures, moves as well but we are all experts in our little minds!
Casboult is showing what can be done right now with having one big man who can contribute, not even play well but contribute forward of the centre!
As for not playing Bell and the like until we had too ..... jesus that's just a silly statement. Sorry but really silly.
Hopefully we can get some back over the next 2 weeks and play finals.

Ellard has previously forced his way into the team on the basis of good form in the 2's. As did curnow, as did mcinness. Even mclean forced his way into the team on the basis of a sustained run of good form.

So what makes you think he wouldnt have had a look in at all?

If anything, we've tried to hold off on selecting the older mature bodies this season (russell/bower)

Reckon what's silly is recycling Bower Russell and co when we already know what they offer....injuries have been a blessing in that we may know more about our list depth sooner rather than later....

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Money well spent