I think no one here is going to be impresse by random wins against top opposition anymore, they are false dawns. Until there is consistent effort and stop putting in absolute shockers every 2-3 weeks we deserve no respect whatsoever. Outside the club we didn't gain much this year for that reason and that's fair enough.

Unless we bounce back and win our next 3 nothing has changed

What you people must understand is that other clubs never rated Sentanta, so they always put their worst player on him and even then most of the time they run off him and what was even worst is that he is always chasing goals by attracting his man to the area where the ball is being kicked and this way when our player leading to the ball suddenly finds an extra player competing for the ball with him and when the opposition punch the ball away he tries to rove to the loose ball, now that the other teams woke up to him, they started to tag him more and that why in my opinion he starting to straggle, even in years gone past when Carlton played him in defence, every time Carlton Players got the ball, they often bypassed him and looked for other player, I think that did tell me that even the players had not have much confidence in him.

I like that bluekettle .... yes we are straggling at the moment

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NG
S M C , S F L

Are we soft?
....we have never played a hard brand of football, other than during our premiership years. An oxymoron? Perhaps it is, because when did any soft side win a premiership?
However, with the collective talent we have had at the club over my 40+ years, we should have achieved more than 8 premierships.

and rightly so...he just does not have any idea on how to play footy....it's really that simple..not his fault..

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Even worse, Ratten never even stopped Sentanta from attracting his man to the area where the ball is being kicked, surely he must have picked this up.

Like Brian Lake.

He had an incredible run at the start of the season where we kept getting sides minus one or two key defenders - like the Pies game and Geelong game -

I said right from the start of this year it would take 8-9 rounds for the gloss to wear off and the very worst thing he could do was attract attention to himself - and right on queue it happened

we should have persisted with Kruezer forward with Hendo - by now we would have had the makings of two very good forwards

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

KROOTSA [geez I miss the big fella] will only pinch hit at CHF.. we need to trade for a gun forward,

I disagree, all good in hindsight. I mean Hendo has played more games than he hasn't and Kreuze is so good around the ground it would be a waste to have him up forward too much.

We do miss him massively. Jacobs impresses, Warnock looks as lost a trade as the McLean one at this stage. At least he is younger and a big man who has some time on his side.

Mentally? Yes.

Physically? Depends on our mentality.


For mine Setanta was given two jobs.

1 - Drag your man out of the forward 50.

2 - Create a contest, and bring the ball to ground for our small forwards (I remember reading a stat that Setantas' helpers score three more goals a game when he's in the side compared to when he's not).

For the first half of the season this plan worked very well.

Once teams figured this out, Setantas' man zoned off of him, and went third man up.

The problem lies with our midfielders not realising this (probabally more not having the composure to lower their eyes, cheers Spud), and using it to our advantage by spotting up Setanta.

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I AM DISENFRANCHISED

I swear since I started this thread we've become even softer. All the commentators keep saying Judd needs more protection but the problem is Murphy wants his protection, Gibbs wants his protection etc.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

when they start going into contests they can get protection until then they can HTFU!

The theme of this thread as a lot of others on Talking Carlton generally seems to be that Ratts is

A.
- too soft
- too matey
- not enough of a bastard
- doesn't have the mongrel in him

B.
Therefore, it is his fault

- apart from a few exceptions, the players skills are kaput
- mentally they are as soft as dog pooh
- their courage woudn't stand up in a kindergarten fight

I don't know Ratts personally, but the way the team is going A. seems a reasonable assumption.

However, the team are grown men and have to take some responsibility for their own individual performances. Therefore to blame Ratts for some of the things I have grouped under B. is not fair to him.

Sure, blame Ratts for that which is in his control such as the game plan which I agree is non existant and team work ethic which I also agree is non existant (Murphy, Gibbs, Walker?).

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"Get ready, Teddy - you're on": Ron Barassi half time 1970 Grand Final

We can blame Ratts for many things, gameplan, coaching moves, selection, trading etc. but he was one of the toughest players to play for our club and would not be responsible for our boys shirking the issue. They only need to look in the mirror to see where that blame lies.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Maybe they shirk because they haven't learnt to earn their position in the side - There are a shit load of players who have been given game time just because we have tried to get games into our youth and haven't really had to earn their spot in the side . They have been picking on potentail for a few years now instead of picking players who showed form
Murphy- Gibbs - Yarren Garlett- Betts- Hampson- Jamison- Joseph - Kruezer - Lucas - Bower - Setanta - Scotland - Houlihan- Walker Armfield and even Russell since Ratts took over have never had to earn their place in the side . You can see what the recent efforts of Grigg and Warnock the difference it makes when they have to force their way in
There seems to be this urban myth out there that once we have a core group at 100 plus games everything will fall into place - That will only happen if they have worked hard to get to 100.

It has come about through supporters and the club losing patience and demanding that our early draft picks be played every week we had enough of the crap and demanded to see the future


Pagan actually tried to hold some back as he did with Russell and Harlett and Edwards but everything for him came unstuck when he promoted Gibbs to the leadership group - Have a feeling that created an us and them with in the playing group and then things really turned to shit when Leading teams come on board and replaced some of the us's with a few of the them's

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

The SOFTEST Carlton list in my time following the club (since 70's)

Need to recruit some battering rams - ala Rooke, C.Brown, Hayes, Boyd.

Also players should be taking a leaf out of Judd and Simpson's book - get your own hard ball.

Need at least 5 on the list.

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

David Parkin called Hawthorn "mummy's boys" on year. 3-4 years later they win a flag playing "unsociable football".
I think we are still recruiting the nice, silky skilled running player who likes to recieve the ball and run.
We should prioritise players who hit the packs hard, not to the extent that we end up with 15 Wiggos but if there are 2 or 3 players hard to split, take the hard nut rather than the one with a nicer kick when unopposed.

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T E A M

You wonder who in the coaches box can teach them hardness at the ball except for Ratten

A lot of softness sitting up there let me tell you
Lappin
Bradley
Harvey
Montgomery
Riley
Capuano

Handbag Hilton

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I think that's a harsh call SB.

I think the term softness has more to do with a mental lack of attention to our work rate.