True Rexy, they vary. The key differentiator is probably the quality and experience of the list in question.

The list that Matthews inherited at Brisbane had already had finals exposure, and had been playing together for a few seasons as I recall. The platform was there for the success they had.

Under Clarkson, Hawthorn invested heavily in the draft and had played the key players all together for approximately 3 years. It could at this stage be said that they stole that flag. They have made only 2 finals campaigns under Clarkson. Who knows, had the rushed behind rule we know have been in place in 2008, they may well have lost to the Cats.

We are developing our depth and have alist I think will be challenging strongly between 2012-2020.

"The Ox is slow but the earth is patient".

True Rexy, they vary. The key differentiator is probably the quality and experience of the list in question.

The list that Matthews inherited at Brisbane had already had finals exposure, and had been playing together for a few seasons as I recall. The platform was there for the success they had.

Under Clarkson, Hawthorn invested heavily in the draft and had played the key players all together for approximately 3 years. It could at this stage be said that they stole that flag. They have made only 2 finals campaigns under Clarkson. Who knows, had the rushed behind rule we know have been in place in 2008, they may well have lost to the Cats.

We are developing our depth and have alist I think will be challenging strongly between 2012-2020.

"The Ox is slow but the earth is patient".[/quote]

Brisbane were wooden spooners in 1998. Matthews started in '99.

Clarkson Dunstall and Brereton gutted the hawks list at the end of '05 and had a flag 3 years later.

I like Ratts' intent, but the jury's out on his method, IMO.

Collingwood, Brisbane and Hawthorn weren't coming from as far back as Carlton.

I'm not running with anything Jimmae.

i'm sick of the supposed carlton members/supporters calling for ratts' head. do you people think the game plan against richmond, brisbane, adelaide, geelong and collingwood was that bad. we were competitive in all these games, obviously the game plan was ok as we won 3 of these. the only game that was an absolute shocker was again Essendon*. yeah we could have made a couple of positional changes earlier against the pies, i.e. white off dawes. we could have held the "ball up in the air" (i.e. slow the game down) towards the end of the third quarter. there are lots of shoulda, coulda woulda in hindsight. it's easy being a coach in the stands or at home in your lounge rooms. believe it or not that side that ran out on sunday was one of the youngest teams of all the 16 clubs, younger than the melbourne's! the team's doing alright. reality is collingwood will finish top 3, we'll finish 6, 7, 8 or 9.

when the team becomes totally uncompetitive like we were 3 or 4 years ago, then i'll have second thoughts about ratten. back him in.

My read on the game was that structure hurt us more than personnel.

The contrast was quite telling, apart from 20 minutes when we were on top in the centre clearances, the Pies zoned us very effectively and consistently created number mismatches i.e 2 on 1 etc all around the G. They then forced the turnover and broke off on the break.

When we got the footy they forced the ball to low risk field positions more often than not and then they ganged up on us. We had no answer once the ball was turned over and they scored many goals with zero pressure. ie Fast break footy. When we tried to avoid the 'trap' we tended to over possess the ball and made mistakes, hence the possession count going our way.

We were tactically out manoeuvred. Not on game day, but as a playing strategy.

I am not sure our coaches are on top of some of the finer detail of zones, how and when to use them and what skills are required to shift/adjust the zone when there is ball movement.

What we did show is that if you can win the clearances particularly from the centre you are hard to stop. Hard to do this all day!

The previous week we got the Cats on an off day and they didn't add the pressure which is a vital ingrediant to their strategy. We were good, but we snuck away with one!

I am generally happy with the endeavour and the accountability demanded from senior players which have got away with average for too long. However I would like to see some innovation and risk management in our game plan.

CB

And who's to say that Collingwood didn't come up against us on an off day?

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Collingwood, Brisbane and Hawthorn weren't coming from as far back as Carlton.

I'm not running with anything Jimmae. [/quote]

That's debatable.

Only Carlton doesn't have off days.

We have a poor coach when we don't win.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

And a genius when we do...

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

No, when we do the oppossition had an off day.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

No.

Just an aside on Ratten and his team, we seem to place extreme importance on individuals playing a role rather the role itself.
When Paul Roos was asked about Seaby he mentioned that the role can be filled by Pike or Mumford etc.
Coaching numerous players to play specific roles is how I suspect you improve without every first round draft pick.
We got Brock Mclean, either because we identified a role for him and his skillset or we just wanted an upgrade on Hadley, Browne, Ellard and Bentick. The problem is upgrades cost money and cap space and do nothing to address other deficiencies.

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Green Shooter

To be fair, it was our most crying need coming into the off-season.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

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Fix up the kick-ins and red-time goals, and I'll have him for 10 years

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

All teams leak red-time goals and, to be fair, I think we are getting better at that rubbish keepings off footy. We just have to hope the red-time goals we do concede become less frequent.

Kick ins are still a bit of a worry. Esp when we go short to an easy option but then don't provide a second step to keep momentum going.

Tonight, though, our quick ball movement was bloody fantastic at times.

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The quick ball movement is our strength and we were able to do it for most of the night and capitalise...which meant any red time goals did not have a major effect....tactics were spot on tonight...it goes to show that its not so much the ins and outs week by week but how we plan...

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Have we sacked him yet? TC - a site full of douche bags.

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TC suffers from the social media illness - the death of respect and constructive discourse by keyboard.

Welcome to the douche bag club Mikkey...

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Juddy have you intentionally neglected to mention that the mindset of the players had little to do with the victory.

Regards Cazzesman

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