It nearly missed his foot but keep sticking up for the club

I'm failing to see where it nearly missed his foot, especially with this 8k footage.

I hope the club is well and truly alert to the next time someone shanks a kick pre-game.
They should be dropped immediately.



https://x.com/realRick_AUS/status/2044922310717780120

Everyone has a part to play in this, including Elijah.
It's a football club, not a military unit, the players have a fair degree of autonomy.
Stop using him as your scapegoat to rag on the coach because you don't like him.
It just shows your ignorance to the situation and Elijah.

Want to try that again in English?

Perhaps you are alluding to our salary cap punishment, maybe not, but if you are, then that is a totally different kettle of fish because salary cap violations are a form of cheating. No one could reasonably claim Carlton was trying to cheat by playing Elijah, especially considering it left us effectively one player short for most of the game.

In fact, I don't know on what grounds the AFL would sanction the club; wouldn't it be a Worksafe matter? Perhaps you could argue sending on a bloke with concussion is in the same basket, but it's still different because there are fixed rules about head injuries but none against mental illness; if Carlton claimed that from their intimate knowledge of Elijah's condition and habits, they reasonably thought he could play his way out of his funk, what gives the AFL the authority to say that was a sanctionable misdiagnosis? Again, one for Worksafe.

I don't know enough about all this to know what an appropriate outcome is, but I find the masochism of some Carlton fans utterly bizarre, though not surprising given their posting history.

i think you're the ignorant one mate.

when commentators like Isaac Smith are worried watching elijah run around looking lost and disorientated and being erratic. to the point isaac was trying to find a phone number for someone within carlton to alert them he's in trouble and to get someone down there to get him out of there.

isaac smith can spot this. as well as a what, a few hundred? a few thousand supporters? that all thought something was wrong and felt uneasy about him and his state.

you would think someone at our club, and particularly from coaching would have protected elijah (from himself) and got him out of there. to what degree elijah suffers, the club would be aware, and you'd like to think someone in the coaching group would be looking out for a kid like elijah.

if this was geelong, or hawthorn do you actually think it gets to this? i honestly don't, and mostly in part to the fact both scott and mitchell are highly connected to the group and in tune with all.

i actually remember stengle who struggles with mental health, being pulled by scott before a game, maybe 2024, or 25.


to think elijah's in hospital now and doing it really tough. and to what degree this latest health concern could have been avoidable had he simply not been allowed to put on boots thursday night and run out; or taken from the ground when it was clear (to others like Isaac Smith) that he was under the weather?

... well the club will have to answer all of that and live with themselves.

The salary cap breaches in 2000 and 2001 and what happened on Thursday night are similar
Both show the club in both instances showed zero accountability

Let’s revisit the fine and loss of first and second draft picks in 2002 and 2003
Prior to this the club had been caught with their hands in the cookie jars 3 times prior
No accountability no concern on what the consequences

Fast forward to Thursday night 24 years later
Club flowers up no accountability
It’s 4 days later and nobody owning up for their part in this complete negligence.
But here is the difference and how really dumb this club is
How many at the game Thursday
How many people have a video with a phone
How people will video something unusual
How many cameras at the ground and how much video footage is there to show of Hollands behaviour being unusual and nobody affiliated with Carlton doing anything about it
This is worldwide news
News travels fast these days with technology
Tonight on AFL 360 footage was shown of Jordan Russell trying to talk to Hollands whilst not one player who are on the other side of Russell doing anything
This club has treated Elijah terribly

As I said no accountability

Just like in 2002
The difference is this form negligence is out in the open for everyone to see

Let’s imagine for a minute that Carlton did pull him off the ground and forced him to sit out the match on the bench or in the rooms, possibly despite Elijah insisting that he was ok to continue and would work his way through it.
Imagine all the pictures of him in the bench and the innuendo on social media, imagine what Caro would have said about us loosing by a kick when we had a player on the bench who “looked uninjured and ready to play”?
Imagine how Elijah would have felt and how he might have spiraled by such handling?

There are no clear rules on how to handle such a situation and it’s laughable to think the AFL know enough to be able to fine or penalise the club for doing one thing over another.

Perhaps this is no different to the way we’ve been handling him all year? Who noticed his behaviour last week when he had 15 possessions? Was it really that much different to this week?

Oh but he “fluffed a kick during warm up”, and he “looked funny onfield”. It’s a shameless pile on, and now he’s in hospital because the entire things has been blown completely out of proportion.

There’s absolutely no comparison, the salary cap rules are very clear and detailed, show me the same detailed rules on how to handle a player with a history of mental health issues? You don’t have a clue, the afl don’t have a clue, past players like Isaac don’t have a clue, and the media don’t have a clue. You’re all just making it up as you go along. And shitting all over poor Elijah.

Completely agree sinbagger.

I don't know how Derek Randall was permitted to face Lillee & Thomo in the 80s. Most fidgety nervous sportsman I've ever seen

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#DonTheStash

he didn't just fluff a kick. or look funny. that's really minimising what elijah is going thru and how badly the club let him down. crusader said it best: anyone who's been around bipolar, knows mania when they see it.

to think the whole club knows elijah can really struggle, and didn't pick up on it - or worse, they did pick up on it and let him play regardless and in doing so fed him to the wolves; is pretty shabby behaviour. the afl will make their findings, and penalise us to something in line with this shabbiness. and it's much deserved.

cfc could have easily said elijah is suffering from illness, food poisoning or has a back problem and kept him in the rooms. they lie about the injury report every other week, and have done so for 30 years.


anyway ... i'm so done with this convo. i hope elijah suffers no longterm ill effects from thursday night. that is the first and foremost thing. the club is already shot and a laughing stock, this just puts us further in it.

Same here
I hope Elijah will be ok
Glad he is in proper care and that side of his life is private
As for Carlton I hope the AFL throw a massive brick at them

The support networks he has in place can talk him through the aftermath. He would be capable of of having a conversation.

When they’re in the grips of an episode, the only thing you can do is subdue them. Your choices are physical or chemical. If you think you can get through to them, you’re in for a surprise.

I’m only watching from afar, but I think Elijah is either (inexplicably) undiagnosed, or full of shit when it comes to his treatment. It was only going to work if he committed to it fully.

I was kidding myself to believe that the whole point of terminating his previous deal was to put together some kind of full service management package. It was only going to work if the club put the balls in.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

A bunch of arrogant, elitist know it alls who think they’re the sole authority on all things Carlton.

One in particular has made some laughably deluded predictions over the last 18 months which have seen the total, horrific opposite outcomes, yet continue to double down on their toxic positivity towards all things Carlton.

And they have the audacity to try and silence those who ask questions and actually notice that things are very, very bad at the club right now.

Steve Smith would go close.

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Jagga

And i thought the media hysteria was bad

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Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

How can all you bagging the club not understand the the psychologist cleared Elijah to play in every game this year and also cleared him to stay on the ground last Thursday night.

The club Psychologist.

Not the head coach, not the line coaches, not the players, not the GM, not the bootstudder. The psychologist.

You are all expecting the coaches and players to override the psychologists professional diagnosis. Just think on that.

As I said in the other thread, the AFL can get other psychologists to examine the club psychologist's diagnosis, but they can't fine the club for following the psychologists advice, unless they find the club psychologist behaved unethically and people at Carlton knew it. That a long bow to draw.

I assume you're having a pop at Bondi primarily, but I am also one who makes consciously optimistic predictions that don't work out. Perhaps there's something about being outside the Melbourne bubble that gives us a less doom-spiralled mindset - sinners is also inclined towards positivity, and Sydders... well, he's a special chap isn't he - but I feel that supporting a football club is an act of faith and loyalty, and it does me no good to wallow in cynicism and self pity - there's enough of that in the world.

In either case, no matter how passionately we argue for a bit of positive balance, nor how dismissive we can sometimes be to the glass 3/4 empty set, no one is trying to silence anyone else. You can't possibly believe this place lacks negativity, surely?

Exactly.
And for all of those questioning his mannerisms and his composure in those videos going around, I think you need to re-familiarise yourself with Elijah's interview.
Plus aside from the above information we have seen in the media, we all don't know exactly what went on, so how can we jump to such matter of fact conclusions.
Like I said earlier, now is the time for support not finger pointing, especially from our own.
There is enough external people looking to bring us down to make themselves feel relevant, we don't need to do it internally.
Let's judge the club afterwards.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/1960468/interview-elijah-hollands-speaks-on-return-to-carlton-list?videoId=1960468&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1771790414001

If the club psychologist examined and cleared Elijah to play the CFC has done its due diligence by providing expert care for the player as required.
If the specialist’s professional assessment was documented and clearance to play given to the player the club cannot be harshly penalized. The rest is media frenzy and speculation.
Elijiah’s case is delicate and needs expert specialist care, A long break from footy May be in order with the objective to reset his lifestyle.

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Go Blue Boys

if the club pysch did do that, he no longer has a job and cfc (as his employer, and ultimately responsible for duty of care) will have a significant fine. maynard said after the game, that if he saw someone struggling like elijah clearly was, he'd have overruled anyone on saying they're fine to continue.

leaders do those kinds of things.


the main thing is elijah's health and support from here. footy is such a drop in the ocean and means little at the end of the day. he's got the rest of his life to live. i hope he's receiving that as a message right now.