I think his name was Joel (you might have been using an alias…) but he said that a wise man said to him that: “To fully understand a problem, one must first unsuccessfully implement a solution."
Perhaps he had the same supervisor or his person was quoting the same person that your supervisor was.
Btw, I think this quote equally applies to the club more broadly.

Surely, keeping Teague would have been the most risky?
And which coach comes without risk? I Clarkson and Lyon would have sorted us out pretty quickly but I also thought Pagan and Malthouse were sure fire winners at the time. And Blight to StK (which btw had an eerie similarity to the way we were desperately pursuing Clarkson).
There are no guarantees.
We pretty much went through the same process with a similar result to Collingwood which everyone is raving about. They also went after Clarkson and Lyon before going through their process which ended up with McRae beating Kingsley, much like ours delivered Voss over Kingsley.
McRae and Voss were teammates. McRae may have great strengths but I am certain that Voss wins out on the leadership front. And we certainly need leadership in our next coach!
It may all go pear shaped but I’ll tell you one thing: if you are after an upgrade, can’t do much better than:
Out: LoGiudice, Liddle, Teague
In: Sayers, Cook, Voss

Agree 3 big ins and cook is judd like appointment to be honest !!
I’m only a mad passionate Carlton supporter and I’m excited what cook track record is like , surely the whole inner sanctum of the club should be feeling that same excitement that cook can heal a lot of bridges at this club

_________________
#sayerscouldbetheman!!

Call it blind optimism, or maybe notable observation, the former probably, but anyway…

A couple of comments from Voss yesterday that stood out for me were:

Q. Due to missing out at Carlton before did you think twice about going for the job: No! [emphatic]…

…later, on radio he was asked a similar question and he replied: If you want it, go for it! [again, quite emphatically]

Q. Second time around, is there a bit of wanting to prove that you can do the job: Yeah, there's a bit of that [he was a bit cagier here, but I thought it was telling that he didn't shy away from it]

--

So, a bit of theory partly based on the above. If the team is a reflection of the coach, then maybe the playing group will be better served with Voss than other appointments, precisely because of his previous "failure" coaching the Lions.

Voss had to work hard to win the job, twice, three times! If you want it, go for it. Don't worry about what others think or say, just do!

Voss has admitted he wants to prove his doubters wrong. Our list has talent, but hasn't been able to deliver to its potential on a consistent basis. We *need* to prove our doubters wrong, and that's just the Carlton doubters, let alone anyone outside the club. We've all been hanging on for success for so long, there's probably not much more failure and disappointment we can take as supporter group.

So, when Voss walks in the door the players know how hard the coach had to work to get the job. They know he has failed, taken that on the chin, set about bettering himself and now he has the opportunity to prove he can do it. And they know they will have to reflect those attributes to get success. Winning won't just follow simply because of the coach. All of them will have to work bloody hard to achieve success.

If Clarkson walked in the room, maybe, the players would think, wow, how easy is this gonna be, the best coach of our generation is here and all we have to do is wait: success is guaranteed!

Of course, this theory is overly simplified, but another comment from Voss to sum up: You won't suit every club or every group. Sometimes it's about timing, and finding the right fit at the right time (part of which could be the likes of Sayers and Cook and all the support we hope that brings).

GO BLUES!!!

_________________
Click here to follow TalkingCarlton on twitter
TalkingCarlton Posting Rules

Kingsley is a great tactician
He has good relationships with all players
He didn’t get the job because he isn’t a big name

If he had Voss’ reputation or record he wouldn’t get a look in at another club

On the flip side BV he has at least eaten some humble pie gone back as an assistant
Went through an interview process

So hopefully he has learnt
But as you said before a coach must be innovative
You become a dinasour very quickly if you don’t keep re inventing yourself

I think we had a better chance of being innovative with Kingsley
See what happens once again

Wouldn’t get a look in elsewhere is your story Keogh

Regardless who got the job, the telling will be in how the coach allows themselves to be supported in a way that knowingly compliments their strengths and weaknesses.

I sense the spirit of unity that the club is embarking upon. This will include unity and team balance within the football department and coaching panel.

On that note, a glimpse of Voss story will be experienced once the coaching panel has been announced.

Good comments Camel. I'm warming to him and I think there is definitely an advantage to having someone who had a crack, got knocked down and is still keen to learn how ot be better for an oppurtunity should it arise.

And as for innovation, game plan etc. I watched the Sir Alex documentary recently and just marvelled at the fact that his true role is to manage. To manage people and get the very best out of them. He was renowned for his discipline and standards, yet relaxed them for Cantona who revelled under the leeway he was given (well until a moment of madness!).
You can have the greatest game plan, strategy or innovatin, but if you can't manage the players to be the very best, then the rest is for nought.

I'm liking that we are hearing lots about his ability to develop relationships with players.

_________________
Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow

I don’t read a lot of print media these days.
I did read a piece about how Carlton changes coaches CEOs etc with the expectation that automatically things will be better.
But the past 6 coaches have been sacked before their contract was up.
Not to mention all the unstable nature of the joint.

IMO I’m entitled to have an opinion.
That’s what this website is about.
I would have preferred Kingsley because tactically IMO he would be a better option

We have Voss so what I want to see the following
1 address the onfield leadership issues which has been a problem for so long
2 address the mid field depth
3 develop a game style that is successful and can stand up to finals pressure
4 not give up picks for overrated players
5 make every player accountable by dropping them if they are soft and don’t put the team first regardless of how much money they on or how long their @#$%&! contract is

One thing we can all agree on here
We heard all the crap we heard yesterday 6 other times in 20 years.

At the moment all it is is talk
Wins or losses actually mean little to me
You have to recognize the problems first learn then implement the changes with
ACTION
At the moment it’s the same
Just different names
Start by naming Weitering captain
No @#$%&! brainer
Cripps isn’t captain material
Make Walsh his deputy

Plan to play Charlie Curnow Kemp JOS through the middle
Tell Martin Williams McGovern Setterfield Dow you won’t get a game if you don’t harden up
Play kids more and don’t let them rot in the reserves because your paying someone 850000 in the seniors who isn’t fit enough
Don’t play unfit players
You want me to keep going

ACTION
At the moment it’s the usual shit

You can sense all you like my friend
We all sensed before about this place
Action that’s what I want to see

Clearly someone read the post and used it as their own then.

A childhood friend of mine, Joel, took his own life a few years ago. If I were to use an alias it certainly wouldn't be Joel out of respect for the guy.

_________________
Orandum est ut sit mens sana in corpore sano. Fortem posce animum mortis terrore carentem, qui spatium vitae extremum inter munera ponat naturae, qui ferre queat quoscumque labores.

Keogh with all due respect if we had of appointed Kingsley you would have been saying how we should have employed Voss coz Kingsley is another untried coach like Teague and Bolton before him blah blah blah.
Everyone can read you like a book Mr Hindsight.
The appointment was ratified and signed off by Cook so I'll trust his judgement over yours every day of the week.
I'm apprehensive but I'm getting behind the club and Sayers and backing Vossy in to get the best out of our list.

6 months before round 1.

Just like you have an inkling that its the same, or Kingsley is a better tactician, I get an inkling based on the facts that better high end talent has taken over roles held by their predecessors.

Mine is not really just an inkling. I knew before he came, but now I CAN see ACTION that proves Sayers is better than MLG, Kernahan, Smorgon and Collins who were Presidents for the last 2 decades.

I don't need to explain why Cook is better than Liddle, Trigg, Malouf.

Williams as footy director is talking standards, is talking straight and has a plan of what he is going to put up with or not, but also seems more committed to success than Judd, Gleeson and Kernahan.

Now for the coach. Kinsgley aside, because I can't find any evidence of Kingsley having done the stuff Voss has done.

Voss has already mentioned in his maiden presser, values previous coaches did not mention, and the word "contest" sounds to be he is more uncompromising with regards to his expectation of his players in winning the contest. I've seen and heard of a willingness he's instilled in the Port players as proof he's better than coaches of the past. If there is any confusion around this, and what contest means, our 'soft' players can actually refer to what he implies by "contest" and Power brand of footy by looking at footage of the way he played, and his selfless style. He sets the the tone moreso than Teague, Bolton, Malthouse and Pagan ever did....I admire Ratten for the same qualities Voss possessed, but the Board and club back then wasn't anywhere near as good a position as they are today.

I know we are already better off with these 4 appointments.

Now, instead of being a glass half empty fella for the next 6 months, surely you can see we are in a better place than we have in the last decade, and Carlton is not the same as before if you respect the people as individuals and what they bring to help carlton improve, than the titles they hold and their predecessors held.

Voss will make players better people and players. I dare say tougher and more fierce for longer.

Yesterday Sayers took liberty to mention that after the players and staff heard from Vossy and Cooky for the first time in a zoom call before the presser, they chanted hysterically "VOSSY VOSSY VOSSY...." followed by " COOKY COOKY COOKY...". There was a collective, a sense of unity, that we haven't fallen apart as the media and some Carlton haters have spruiked. The players are starved of success and a game plan that will give them that. They have all been told from Sayers and Williams that everyone in the club has to lift to achieve high performance output next year, and that's already started.

Give them a chance...give them at least till half way into 2022. You might enjoy it.

The past has hurt all of us including an ability to believe, but like London said, there's a sense of spirit and unity in the club yesterday....the reset to improve has started with the new regime...its not just one or two changes, its a mass change with quality people who thrive on getting Carlton to the Finals.

I'm putting money on us making finals with or without Cerrra, Hewett and even without Williams and Gov. Next year its about a collective of those who desire success, not pay packets and individual accolades regardless whose captain.

Its different already keogh. Enjoy

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I’m looking forward to our winning a Grand Final by 5 goals and some Posters still arguing about “If we had selected player X instead of player Y, we would’ve won by more” etc

_________________
Our tradition demands success!

Maybe i am sensing Keogh and thanks for alerting me to our common ground as i appreciate now that you were only sensing yourself when claiming Voss wouldn’t get a job elsewhere.

And yes, we also have common ground in our frustration over the past.

Perhaps we could find some further common ground by allowing things to now unfold. Let’s together let go on that tight grip of past wrong doings and for a moment in time play with the possibilities of the club getting it right this time. We have action.

Timing

Be interested now to see if things change form here. What the pattern has been last decade with our coaches has been a good first year, which is their best, then gets worse from there until the players stopped working hard for them and they are sacked. Best years with Malthouse, Bolton and Teague were the first, the latter's case the 6-5 finish then got worse, just less worse with Teague. Only exception to that was Ratten, who tended to keep getting better for a few years.

file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/13/03/DB3718A8-1696-43AB-B657-182A3C842759/Carlton%20coach%202021%20Blues%20appoint%20Michael%20Voss%20as%202022%20coach%20to%20replace%20David%20Teague%20%20Herald%20Sun.png

It’s a love fest between champions

_________________
#sayerscouldbetheman!!

I’m want the club to succeed a lot.
As Jim said there is a honeymoon period with anything new

And there is always an embracing of the new

As I said let’s see what unfolds.

Let’s hope Voss and Cook stay for a long journey
Any organization can’t have a good culture when guys are being sacked every couple of years.

The club must stabilize
And I want to see something onfield that will become success which I mentioned in my dot points

Meh, i thought it was pretty lame

resign Sam Walsh - well, awww der
Take the pressure down - oagree to an extent in terms of external messaging but whats wrong with expecting the best?
Be transparent about clarko - who cares, he didn't get the job.
GET THE RIGHT GROUP AROUND VOSS ... AND FIX THE LEAKY BOAT - absolutely
DEVELOP THE RIGHT RELATIONSHIPS - agreed
NAIL THE TRADE PERIOD ... AND GET THE LIST TO FINALLY FIRE - same could be said for every other club

_________________
Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow