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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Whether you perceive that story to be true or not is up to you, but my experience suggests a lot of you are gullible fools.



You've come up with that one a couple of times of recent. What's the point of the statement other than to sling shit at fellow posters? :?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Pretty self-explanatory I would have thought...don't believe everything you read...certainly not on here.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:46 pm 
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Robert Walls

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top 4 as our expectation has to be a non negotiable ie making it to a preliminary final


....small steps of course...


..means expectation = 2012 premiership!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:53 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Blue Vain wrote:
Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Whether you perceive that story to be true or not is up to you, but my experience suggests a lot of you are gullible fools.



You've come up with that one a couple of times of recent. What's the point of the statement other than to sling shit at fellow posters? :?


Certain serial shit slingers on this site have had a green light for years to attack other posters...

Some wannabe 'insiders' here try a bit too hard..


Back on topic ... get Sanderson!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:00 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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budzy wrote:
Back on topic ... get Sanderson!!!!!!


Sanderson is certainly well credentialled, and thought of highly in football circles, but I'm not sure we have a position for him - our senior coaching panel is now seemingly complete after the signing of Barker. Will probably bob up at Essendon* or Collingwood.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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I posted this a few pages ago, but would there be any prospect of moving Riley or Bradley into the VFL coaching role (still vacant, I understand) and Sanderson or Laidley taking their spot on the senior coaching panel? I imagine it would make sense to have a VFL coach that is close to Ratten...

Or there might even be a chance that Sanderson is looking to boost his CV by coaching his own team - so could we lure him to the Bullants? Money would be a factor obviously (ie. the Bullants have none, so the Blues would have to cover it)...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:03 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Siegfried wrote:
Indeed. The rebirth came on the back of a man who was able to instill some confidence and process off field, and a raft of young kids who started to make an impact on the field, yielding some results.

The question in my mind is are we doing everything we can to set us up for a sustained period of excellence AND win Premierships AND become an off-field powerhouse (membership, financial, culture etc). Look at the previous Premiers and see how they got that so right - Brisbane, Sydney, Geelong and Collingwood. Hawthorn made difficult, major decisions on and off the field, much initially driven by a board member (Dunstall). It included a change of president, change of coach (with thorough selection process) and major financial initiatives that boosted coffers and membership.

I think what Josh is pointing out very strongly is what a lot of us have been saying on here for a while, that the systems we need to become a powerhouse are not where they need to be (eg the process that gave Ratten the job, twice extending Ratten's contract when it wasn't necessary, the process that would have given Voss the job had he wanted it, appointing a coaching panel with mostly no experience, giving favour to ex-Carlton people (look at Geelong's appointment of Scott, being a favourite son was irrelevant) etc). At the end of the day, it is the Board which is resposible for those decisions. Even if Swann makes a decision himself, the Board still needs to ratify such appointments. Had the Board not prematurely extended Ratten's contract, he almost certainly wouldn't be coach going into 2011. That says something.

Josh's passion comes from his frustration at what he sees as the shortcomings at the Club that have yet to be addressed. Ditto Synbad. I have always found Josh to be a very rational, reasoned poster. His passion and frustration is much more evident of late, and seems to have aroused the ire of some on here. I think I understand where that frustration is coming from, for I too share it. It is the knowledge that we have a golden opportunity over the next 5-8 years to win a Premiership, hopefully more than one. But we need to do everything right to make that happen, on field and off. If we don't get the right decision makers in place, to drive this Club the way it needs to be driven, we will turn around in 10 years time and be shattered that we had some of the best talent in the competition but couldn't win a flag. My father, who has been watching Carlton play for 70 years, does not believe we have the right people in place, starting with the President.

It is absolutely imperative NOW that we have the right people making the right decisions and implementing the right processes. There is an urgency now that wasn't there 5 years ago because now is the time we need to be capitalising and winning Premierships. I do not believe that Kernahan is the right person to be President, and I have stated that numnerous times on this forum since I joined in its previous incarnation. I have no idea about the rest of the indivuduals on the Board, other than it seems there are too many on it. But the Board as a whole has endorsed a number of decisions that I think were not in the best interest of the Club. Recent appointments of assistant coaches are IMHO much better decisions, so hopefully the Board is learning. But we no longer have 5 years to learn and get it right, we must get it right now.

As for the coach, this has been debated at length. I haven't seen anything in 3 years that tells me he has what it takes to get us to be a serious contended. I hope that changes. But right now, I have more confidence in what Melbourne is doing on and off field to win a Premiership and set themselves up, than what we are.

This is my view. It mirrors Josh's view, and Synbad's view, and the views of many others on here. My frustration is growing rapidly, because I don't want us to muck up a golden opportunity. It seems to me that Josh has the same frustration.


Great post Siegfried. In a nutshell, we are not building/developing/improving at a fast enough rate. Bottom line is that 5 years is a generation in football terms. I share the same fears. MUck up an opportunity and suddenly Judd is 30, a new coach, rebuild, a new game plan etc. We need to put in structures that make our changes as seamless as possible.....or before we know it, it will be 2015 and the circle has turned again.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Rexy wrote:
:lol:

Have to respectfully disagree woof. Due diligence, dot the i's cross the t's.


But there's no i or t in Swann or Cordy. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:30 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Oh noes, Judd will be 30 soon, the world will end ... elite mids never, ever, play beyond their 30th birthday. :razz:

I get the point, but if we get the ingredients right the rest should look after itself.

And if Judd stays fit there's no reason to expect he couldn't play until 33 and possibly beyond. By which time we'll be complaining that Murphy is 30 and Gibbs is not far behind.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:18 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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those advocating more change are like what I said before looking for the magic wand to cure or ills

How much upheaval do you want - How much more can the club and its supporters tolerate before it all becomes to hard and everyone just walks away

since 2002 onwards there has been drama after drama in this footy club and what it needs most is not Dean Laidley or Sanderson - It needs a sustained period of stability - Heads down bums up get down and dirty for 5-10 years to come .

The same people who were not happy under Elliott and Brittain soon grew tired of Collins and Pagan lost patience with Smorgan - were put back in their place when Pratt arrived and now are crawling out from under the wood work making all the same noises they did 8-9 years - And yet they hide behind a computor screen and the Carlton One ticket or the unofficail selection committee


since taking over fully the reigns in 2008 only 6 teams have a better win/loss ratio than Carlton and this is coming off 3 spoons in 5 years - that to me puts Ratts in the top section of all the coaches floating around

and it would most likely have been higher if he hadn't lost His key forward and His second best midfielder

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:16 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Sydney Blue wrote:
The same people who were not happy under Elliott and Brittain soon grew tired of Collins and Pagan lost patience with Smorgan - were put back in their place when Pratt arrived and now are crawling out from under the wood work making all the same noises they did 8-9 years - And yet they hide behind a computor screen and the Carlton One ticket or the unofficail selection committee


Really, who are they?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:03 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I think Sanderson would want the job that Richardson has.
He and Bucks are close, but at best he'd be 4th banana there next year. So I doubt he'd be at the Filth either.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:09 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Sanderson to Brisbane ? Voss needs someone to save his butt.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:09 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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murraycray wrote:
Sanderson to Brisbane ? Voss needs someone to save his butt.

sanderson needs to improve his CV not decimate it

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:08 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Sydney Blue wrote:
those advocating more change are like what I said before looking for the magic wand to cure or ills

How much upheaval do you want - How much more can the club and its supporters tolerate before it all becomes to hard and everyone just walks away

since 2002 onwards there has been drama after drama in this footy club and what it needs most is not Dean Laidley or Sanderson - It needs a sustained period of stability - Heads down bums up get down and dirty for 5-10 years to come .

The same people who were not happy under Elliott and Brittain soon grew tired of Collins and Pagan lost patience with Smorgan - were put back in their place when Pratt arrived and now are crawling out from under the wood work making all the same noises they did 8-9 years - And yet they hide behind a computor screen and the Carlton One ticket or the unofficail selection committee


since taking over fully the reigns in 2008 only 6 teams have a better win/loss ratio than Carlton and this is coming off 3 spoons in 5 years - that to me puts Ratts in the top section of all the coaches floating around

and it would most likely have been higher if he hadn't lost His key forward and His second best midfielder


sydney blue, that type of rational thought, is not welcome here.

i suggest a self imposed ban before you do your own head in trying to convinced the unwashed masses of the very things you have stated there, which i agree completly with.

sometimes i wonder just what people expect!! i dont think the club, coach, or players, could be asked to achieve anything more than they have.

every year a task has been set, and every year it has been achieved. i simply do not understand what more anyone could expect!!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:23 am 
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formerly Josh Kaplan

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Quote:
hose advocating more change are like what I said before looking for the magic wand to cure or ills

How much upheaval do you want - How much more can the club and its supporters tolerate before it all becomes to hard and everyone just walks away

since 2002 onwards there has been drama after drama in this footy club and what it needs most is not Dean Laidley or Sanderson - It needs a sustained period of stability - Heads down bums up get down and dirty for 5-10 years to come .

The same people who were not happy under Elliott and Brittain soon grew tired of Collins and Pagan lost patience with Smorgan - were put back in their place when Pratt arrived and now are crawling out from under the wood work making all the same noises they did 8-9 years - And yet they hide behind a computor screen and the Carlton One ticket or the unofficail selection committee


since taking over fully the reigns in 2008 only 6 teams have a better win/loss ratio than Carlton and this is coming off 3 spoons in 5 years - that to me puts Ratts in the top section of all the coaches floating around

and it would most likely have been higher if he hadn't lost His key forward and His second best midfielder


Up there with the worst post I have ever seen, a complete misunderstanding of why we have the worst record of any AFL club from the period of 2002 until now.
Who are these same people you refer to? Are they the ones who sat idly by in 2001 when the Elliott almost tore this club to shreds? What angers me is the penchant of so many on here who simply have not learnt from our mistakes. Perpetual accountability is the only way this club is going to get anywhere near #17.. That doesn't mean challenging every decision the club makes, but the fact so many on here are so terrified of reading a different take on the current state of affairs is quite sad.

My view is since Pratt's passing the club has been in a holding pattern. Memberships have plataeud (why a downward trend this season when we are supposedly on the up? Fevola?) , the want to make our mark on the industry has waned, and we are slipping back into a cosy acceptance of 'she'll be right.' Meanwhile, we finished our season at 11 wins and 12 losses. Dead average with minimal (albeit some key) injuries. To make matters worse, on talent alone, we completed the trade period with our list in slightly worse shape then it was when it started.

While the postscript will only be written in 12 months time, the necessity to continue to challenge this football club to be the best and most professional of all the 17 can never waver. It's only going to get harder and more competitive.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:06 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Josh Kaplan wrote:
Quote:
hose advocating more change are like what I said before looking for the magic wand to cure or ills

How much upheaval do you want - How much more can the club and its supporters tolerate before it all becomes to hard and everyone just walks away

since 2002 onwards there has been drama after drama in this footy club and what it needs most is not Dean Laidley or Sanderson - It needs a sustained period of stability - Heads down bums up get down and dirty for 5-10 years to come .

The same people who were not happy under Elliott and Brittain soon grew tired of Collins and Pagan lost patience with Smorgan - were put back in their place when Pratt arrived and now are crawling out from under the wood work making all the same noises they did 8-9 years - And yet they hide behind a computor screen and the Carlton One ticket or the unofficail selection committee


since taking over fully the reigns in 2008 only 6 teams have a better win/loss ratio than Carlton and this is coming off 3 spoons in 5 years - that to me puts Ratts in the top section of all the coaches floating around

and it would most likely have been higher if he hadn't lost His key forward and His second best midfielder


Up there with the worst post I have ever seen, a complete misunderstanding of why we have the worst record of any AFL club from the period of 2002 until now.
Who are these same people you refer to? Are they the ones who sat idly by in 2001 when the Elliott almost tore this club to shreds? What angers me is the penchant of so many on here who simply have not learnt from our mistakes. Perpetual accountability is the only way this club is going to get anywhere near #17.. That doesn't mean challenging every decision the club makes, but the fact so many on here are so terrified of reading a different take on the current state of affairs is quite sad.


If the members had not been up in arms at what Elliott was doing to the Club, he'd still be President and where would we be? I know that in my own family, we had serious concerns about Elliott way back before the sh*t hit the fan - in fact, as far back as the early 90s. Yes, I know we won a Flag in '95. I also distinctly remember my father saying that if we were not careful, Elliott will destroy the football club in the same way that he was destroying his personal life. The writing was on the wall back then. Only then, there was no online forum on which to voice and discuss our concerns.

If the members had not been up in arms at Smorgon's inept presidency, he'd still be president and we may still have Malouf and Williams and no Judd and no money. There was much discussion at the tmie on the predecessor to this site that he had to go. Some posters were adamant that we shouldn't rock the boat with more change, that there had been enough instablility and we needed to consolidate and trust that Board. Sound familiar?

I have had my concerns about Kernahan as President ever since I heard him speak at the Extraordinary General Meeting shortly before Elliott's demise. I have recounted that night on this site in the past, and shall do so again briefly now. When asked about the performance of the football department, of which he was an official member (and a Board member, ha??), he said that he and the football department had failed, and needed to be held responsible. The next question to him was about the performance of the Board, and the financial disaster that they had created. His answer - "I'm not the one to ask about such matters, you should address that question to John". So...if he had failed as a member of the football department, and didn't understand the Board activities, what on earth was he doing there? Aside from backing Elliott to the hilt, imploring the members to stick with that Board.

Which he did again at the end of the Smorgan presidency, backing the Board to the hilt. After both Elliott and Smorgan were dismissed, he then came out and said the performance of the previous Boards had been poor, and unacceptable. One minute he wanted us to stick with them, the next he told us that they hadn't been up to scratch. Ha?

I voted against Kernahan when the Collins ticket challenged. It dumbfounded me that he could get up in front of the members and defend the Elliott Board. I believe he has only been up for election once since then (I stand to be corrected on that), and I voted against him then as well. I have held this concern for a decade.

Three years ago, there were a few people on here who voiced their concerns about Kernahan. We were derided by most as being disrespectful to a Club champion. The number of people who have concerns about Kernahan (and that is not to doubt his passion for the Club, rather his ability to do the job he needs to do) since then have steadily grown, with many on here openly discussing a transition, open to Kernahan stepping aside.

This is not an issue about Laidley v Barker. This is people concerned at whether we have the right people in place, to make the right decisions, to provide the right leadership and create the right culture to return us as a super power and deliver us number 17 and beyond. Not finishing top 4 for 3 years, losing a grand final, and then slipping away. Sustained excellence and success over a long period.

It seems that there are many on here who share that concern, however they voice it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:04 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Name one KPI that Kernahan has not improved
Membership - up
Crowd numbers up
Wins - up
Facilities - completed
Sponsorship - Full
TV - Audiences - UP

Whingers - UP

He made one of the toughest calls of any President by sacking the king of the kids - It was a minor set back

and those highly critical of him for his support of Elliott - Well you better add Pratt to that list

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:08 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Josh Kaplan wrote:
To make matters worse, on talent alone, we completed the trade period with our list in slightly worse shape then it was when it started.


Bit early on that call aren't you Josh?

Josh Kaplan wrote:
While the postscript will only be written in 12 months time, the necessity to continue to challenge this football club to be the best and most professional of all the 17 can never waver. It's only going to get harder and more competitive.


So true. But in all honesty, would you run a football club the way Carlton (and others) are run? I wouldn't. But to implement the necessary changes would require a person such as Pratt to have a vision and implement it. Does anyone know Richard Pratt's vision for the football club? I certainly don't.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:14 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Name one KPI that Kernahan has not improved
Membership - up
Crowd numbers up
Wins - up
Facilities - completed
Sponsorship - Full
TV - Audiences - UP

Whingers - UP

He made one of the toughest calls of any President by sacking the king of the kids - It was a minor set back

and those highly critical of him for his support of Elliott - Well you better add Pratt to that list


You can measure things any way you want Sydney. St Kilda and the Bulldogs have bothed improved all those key indicators you speak of over the years, yet haven't won a flag, and may not. And when they start to lose more games, what will happen to their finances and memberships, will they remain high?

It's not just about improving, it's about putting in place the people and structures to become the best. I question whether we have those.

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