These two are seemingly the luckiest men on the list for 2010, after Fisher was hardly sighted in H2 2009 and Wiggins only came back as a filler in defence, despite an ok first month at AFL level (and our mark of the year in Round 1). Nonetheless they're still listed and in the best 22 thread neither rates a mention.

Does anyone see an opening for either notwithstanding a youthful forward line of Setanta, Henderson, Waite + Yarran, Betts & Garlett?

Could Fisher be tried deep at FF with support from Betts (suspension permitting) whilst the others lead hard up ground? Will Fisher crack the 100?

Will Wiggins get a gig?

I'm tipping Wiggins 5-6 and Fisher 2-3.

Fish is only on the list due to his contract IMO.

.. ....with a young, inexperienced forward line i actually can see Wiggo quite possibly playin' a role.. ..don't have him in my best 22, but looking beyond simple playing ability/skill.. ..i think his hard working, disciplined team play.. ..plus courageous crash and bash physicality and intensity could see him employed up forward to help the younger/lighter kids.... ..the Fish i see playin' if injuries/suspensions hit, or we start running out of ideas up forward.. ..otherwise, adios Fish.. ..though i see a bit of merit to maybe nursing him to his 100.. ..good for the morale, he's so close..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

WIGGINS - 25.

Fisher - 4

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I wouldn't mind seeing Fish given some time playing deep as a FF in the Intra Club games and maybe a couple of NAB Cup games to see if he can take advantage of his marking strength.

It couldn't be done with Fev in the side and it is his strength. Having said that, you'd hope we were able to have a forwardline based around multiple options and not need to resort to playing him when the real stuff starts.

As for Wiggo...I'd like to think we have better options these days.

If either play more than 4 games its because we've failed to get our forwardline functioning.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

I agree on Fisher TBB. We couldn't afford Fev + fish in the one forward line at times because of the rebound ability out. Notwithstanding his work on his fitness he is still a liability on the ground. Playing him deep in the forward line with mobile hard leading targets henderson & Setanta might work, say if you could afford Betts and someone else near him for any loose ball. Opposition clubs can play their 4th or 5th defender on Fisher though so maybe only for match-ups eg. Lovett Murray took him out.

I think your line on Wiggins could equally have applied for the last 5 seasons but he still gets games. that being said in 2009 he played initially as a leading HFF, roles that you'd assume would be taken now, or as a filler in defence when injuries to Waite, Austin and Jamison all hurt us. On that basis I dont see him getting many games at all.

So for mine it's Fisher - 10 games; Wiggins - nil.

37. Though that number could be higher. Both are reasonably smart boys as far as footballers go and are extremely well liked and great clubmen - so given that scenario it could break into the 40's. With Fevola gone, the number of games of poker will be down on previous years - however this could lead to other games being adopted by the clubs stalwarts and Fish and Wiggo could feature heavily in these games. Also, new recruits such as Brock McLean may introduce new games to the playing group.

Property Steward Wayne Gilbert doesn't currently have any games on hand. The backgammon and chess board were last seen walking out the door when Mike Fitzpatrick up and left to work for then Premier John Cain. The edition of monopoly belonged to Bruce Mathieson who took that with him to the Gold Coast, whilst Stratego and Mastermind were the property of David Parkin. It's rumored that Robbie Warnock has Operation however the club has sanctioned anyone else from playing that game with Robbie as his advantage is too great.

Alcohol consumption is likely to drop considerably after a ban on drinking games - otherwise the number could be so much higher. Watching the Winter Olympic Games does not count.

An interesting perspective which raises the eternal issue - does a session of Spider Solitaire count as a single game or do you need to count each run?

Surely, it's at the point where it's either step up in 2010 or be shown the door at the end of the season. I have liked the way Wiggins has gone about his footy at times, such as Round 1 V Richmond, and late in 2008 when we played the Bulldogs on a Sunday night. Those games showed what he can really be if he maintains consistency.

I also think that we tend to lack players of the Wiggins type, for mine he boasts a certain uncompromising hardness that much of the team doesn't have at this point. As for Fisher, he can be instrumental for us using his strong hands to take overhead grabs, but his kicking just has to improve if he is staying around. His kicking over the last couple of years has been nothing short of disgraceful for AFL standard, and I'm sure he knows it too, and it would certainly be something he should want to improve. The club are also at a time where we have gained a bit of depth around the ground, so many free-rides that mediocre players have got over the last 7 years will be phased out as we aim to go forward as a club.

Both players could easily play 22 games in 2010. Provided Wiggins remains consistent and provided Fisher improves is kicking. Both players slot in nicely in the HF set up, and particularly with no Fevola around here is their chance to cement a position in the forward 50 and get more opportunities for goal-kicking than they have had for their whole career. It really is up to them if they wish to continue with their careers at Carlton though. I think both will play come Round 1, and it will go from there. Most of us say this each year, but this is a make or break year. No improvement should result on them being moved on, but improvement will see their careers reignited.

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Premierships: 1869, 1871, 1873, 1874, 1875, 1877, 1887, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1914, 1915, 1938, 1945, 1947, 1968, 1970, 1972, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1987, 1995.

"GIBBS."

Fisher asked to be traded and the club agreed to try to do so.
When the Fev stuff happened, Fisher was told by the club that he wouldnt be traded. Fisher was happy either way.

I wouldn't be surprised to see either line up in Round 1.
If the club goes down the path of suspending players due to off-field incidents and with Judd out players like Wiggins will come under serious consideration. Not least because of experience, leadership and a developed body.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree, but I would not be surprised.

In the words of Scribe

Not many, if any

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WE ARE CARLTON @#$%&! THE REST

I'm going with Wiggins 4, Fisher 2.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Hopefully none

However the reality is of course that with top spot sewn up we will rest some players for the Round 22 clash against Freo. Fish and Wiggo will make for handy additions, and being good clubmen will be good to have on the plane.

While our list is young, Wiggins is still in our best 22. I like to see him play the hard nut forward role.

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Delulio is a member of TISM

Yeah i agree to a certain extent.

Fish and Chief are 2 of our strongest marks, problem is they arent consistent enough with their field-kicking or set shots at goal.

Only time will tell on how many games they play, maybe more than last year, maybe less.

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When you're a Jet you're a Jet all the way!

Fisher's last game for the Bullants is still fresh in my mind. He has a long way to go. Pfieffer's last game for the bullants was 100 times better than Fishers.

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Delulio is a member of TISM

I always had the feeling that Fish was always overawed by the Fev show...as long as he is played close to goal (as his kicking range is 30m at best) and lifts his intensity when he doesnt have the ball he will play many more games than Wiggins IMO as Wiggo just isn't up to it and probably doesnt have a distinct role or position now...

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Fisher will play a minimum of 2 games, maximum unlimited.

Wiggins could well play up to 15 games in 2010.