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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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bondi, I don't have an issue with the Pratts. They've been magnificent for CFC and hopefully will continue to be...
My issue is with the democratic processes, or lack thereof...

bondiblue wrote:

If the Pratt want representation on the board to ensure their money is managed wisely there's nothing abnormal about that. If things were rosy at board level then would a Pratt be invited or request a spot on the board? That raises some suspicion about the current board from my end.


..from my end too! :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
If things are this bad, where are the nominations from others to get in there and contribute?

Surely there should be more than one challenger.

Seriously , who is going to challenge whilst Sticks is President?
Its suicide.

Not because Sticks is a genius and a massive powerbroker in business circles... but he is a nice guy that Elliot pumped right up for his own benefit.
In order to come on to a board that doesnt want anyone else on the board.. youve got to be MASSIVE...

Hopefully Ralph jumps on board and then begind to pick some of these clowns off... or just steamrolls them.
Then youd like to see some guys on the board who actually can add something.

Just remember... alot of the current board members.. were there under elliot and or Collo.. and smorgo..


You wanna know how these guys are judged ...and how their performance ranks.

Club 29 reckons they .. the board are doing a super job cos we have facilities.... yeah and so does everybody else... and again its bankrolled by the Pratt family...

So i wanna know what the hell are ten blokes doing thats cutting edge.. thats ground breaking.. thats modern... that makes us the leader in the sport again....

Where would these guys rank themselves against other clubs and how their respective boards are performing.
They have a flying start.... Pratts money... 16 flags.. and 40,000 members..Some of Australians most prominent names on our supporter base.... and with all that..... why do we have Lappin... Teague... Williams... Braddley...,Ratten etc as our coaching committee.. surely we can go higher than that.....
Is it a money issue????
We are not paying a hell of alot of stuff... some of the clubs employees are Visy employees.. and Visy continues to punp a hell of alot of money into our footy dept....

So is it a money issue.. or a direction issue???

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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budzy wrote:
bondi, I don't have an issue with the Pratts. They've been magnificent for CFC and hopefully will continue to be...
My issue is with the democratic processes, or lack thereof...

bondiblue wrote:

If the Pratt want representation on the board to ensure their money is managed wisely there's nothing abnormal about that. If things were rosy at board level then would a Pratt be invited or request a spot on the board? That raises some suspicion about the current board from my end.


..from my end too! :thumbsup:



The key thing to notice is the timing.... in the middle of an election....... :fight:

The question is theres alot of cooking going on in the kitchen... smell it??? :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:00 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Who said anything about challenging Sticks? This election isn't about Sticks and its not about electing a President.

There are three board members up for re-election this year, a chance to get rid of three of the clowns.

If there are others out there who can add something I'd like to see them challenging NOW...not when things are safe for them, they know they'll be elected and will have a mate of theirs as President.

Change from within...but you have to be on the board for that. As things stand, there's only one guy even willing to challenge them, if there's anyone else, they cant even do that.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Who said anything about challenging Sticks? This election isn't about Sticks and its not about electing a President.

There are three board members up for re-election this year, a chance to get rid of three of the clowns.

If there are others out there who can add something I'd like to see them challenging NOW...not when things are safe for them, they know they'll be elected and will have a mate of theirs as President.

Change from within...but you have to be on the board for that. As things stand, there's only one guy even willing to challenge them, if there's anyone else, they cant even do that.


Its all entwined.

Who is going to come in with any real GRUNT if he has to dislodge Sticks?

You obviously have no idea how politics works Brad.... but not a lot of people do understand the psychology of politics ....

Challenging now????

One guy has demanded he can walk into the board in the middle of an election....Which basically says elections and the process is insignificant,.

What are you talking about???? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Sailor given your reservations about the Board - and I'm not necessarily agreeing with them because I know very little about the Board - if you put in a swag of money would you like to attend Board meetings to keep an eye on what's going on?
If you put the same money in ten years ago the Board would have blown it.
I suspect an appointee has to stand for election at the next AGM but not sure.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:16 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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isdonis.george wrote:
Sailor given your reservations about the Board - and I'm not necessarily agreeing with them because I know very little about the Board - if you put in a swag of money would you like to attend Board meetings to keep an eye on what's going on?
If you put the same money in ten years ago the Board would have blown it.
I suspect an appointee has to stand for election at the next AGM but not sure.

Regardless is whether youre appointed or won an election you have to face the electorate inside of three years in a cycle.
Now... with your question about wanting to know how my money is spent...am i bankrolling the club with the swag so without it theyre not functioning... im paying wages... footy dept stuff.. redevelopments and functions etc etc etc...???

Well if im doing all of that i would... and you know why i would??... cos the rest of them cant keep the thing afloat without me.
Remember.. the Pratts dont need to pump money into the club if its viable.. so if its not viable... and i dont have confidence in them... id definitely make sure i can see whats going on.... cos i haave no faith in them

Also remember... my info tells me they didnt want me on board to begin with.. they told me that i would have to go through the normal channels..and win an election.. cos by my bankrolling the club and demanding a spot and getting it... i instantly get more credibility... not sure how the fact that my family keeps the club afloat doesnt afford me massive credibility in their eyes in the first place....

So what i do.. is i play chicken with them.. and organise it to happen during the elections.

I might even announce another Visy sponsorship through one of the companies as well while im at it.Considering that the club with all that momentum could only manage a one year contract which means fire sales and changes with everything branded in the merchandising dept again......

Long winded answer i know.. but i wanna help people see the dots theyre to join.... ..... ......

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:01 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Synbad wrote:
GAVROMAN wrote:
I'll be very disappointed if Dick Pratt actually didnt leave any money behind for the club after his death considering his wealth and love for the club.



why????

stupid statement


How is that stupid???

If i was a billionaire, i wouldnt hesitate to donate $10 million to the Blues when i passed away.

Especially if i was regarded as the saviour of the club.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:24 pm 
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Synbad wrote:
budzy wrote:
Mrs Caz wrote:
Not that I'm not happy to have him involved, but why doesn't he have to stand for election like the others?


Couldn't agree more Caz.

If he wishes to join the board, he should do the democratic thing and run at the election.

Very arrogant and dismissive of the membership, IMO.



The board need to be dismissed cos they rely on the Pratt family handouts still.

Love to know what happened to the Harrison/Moulton fund raising promise which was their political platform.
Also id love to know what happened to the pub deal Harro and Moulton had the club proclaiming publicly?

Were still dependant on Pratt family fuel to keep things going at Carlton.... cos a board of Sticks as president and a few empty suits just doesnt cut the mustard.

So why should the Pratt family bankroll Carlton ?

and of course a Pratt family member should be a walk up start on the board. Obviously its not going to be Jeannie... so the logical one id Ralph.

Which means that due to our unhealthy reliance on the Pratt family were a defacto privately owned footy club..
But thats what happens when you have a bunch of do nothings and incompetants on the board who are not capable of getting the club to stand on its own two feet.

Im glad Mike Spartels ran for the board... not cos he would make a difference... but because he paves the way to allow others to challenge a board run by Sticks that lacks grunt.. that has little direction and does not have the pull of what a Carlton board should be capable of having.
Not many people have the guts to run and rock the boat.
Noone is going to challenge Sticks... who is not even capable of chairing a family Christmas lunch let alone the Carlton football club.

There is nothing embarassing about a guy like Spartels Josh.. whats an embarassment is a guy like Harrison who wont face the music here...and hes been there for a while without having contributed anything.

Harrison has used this board countless times for his own benefit.
He has a chance now of coming in and growing a set and illustrating to us what he has contributed during his term.
Not doing it is an embarassment because its people like him.. and NOT Spartels who have allowed this club to be virtually owned by the Pratt family, due to their very minimal output of performance.
they have been HIDING behinf Pratt energy..and have created !@#$%& all themselves.

Harrison has the opportunity to explain to us what he has contributed.

But he wont.... :lol:

Cos its a useless contribution....

From the money he promised to come up with...

To the Balls up where he had Swann procolaiming the eleven pubs... which would have killed the club...

and id like him to explain to us.. who are the stakeholders of the Carlton Mortgage Fund.. and how it ACTUALLY works and what the club ACTUALLY gains from it annually and who ACTUALLY benefits... after all it is using the Carlton brand for business....

:thumbsup:


Footy is an emotional game and it invokes emotion from the supporters. It was passion that drove me to put my hand up at a time when the Club was on its knees. It came at a very inconvenient time in my personal life occurring not long after the birth of my third child – but as I said, footy is an emotional game.

I accept that everyone is entitled to their opinion and as a Board member I have made myself pretty available either via this forum, the odd phone call, at training or at games to talk to whoever was interested. Others haven’t taken the time to speak to me directly, but find it appropriate to post personal insults, show disrespect for others and spread misinformation that borders on lies, under the protection of an alias, and under the guise of being “connected” to the Club.
Most of the ramblings by you Synbad, fall into that category. Is your life such that TC gives you the kudos and power you crave. Perhaps it is through this medium that you feel important – that you are finally being heard. I have noted with interest that you have posted nearly 16000 times in nearly 5 years – that’s impressive. I also note that you have never bothered to speak to me in the 3 years I have been on the Board.
Whatever the reasons for your personal vitriol I disagree with you on most of what you have posted. Not everything, but most.
I find it curious you have focused on me rather than any of the other incumbents. Is that because your mate Italian Blue ran on the ticket with Marcus? Is Italian Blue your insider? I really don’t want you to respond to my questions – I pose them rhetorically.

Here are some specifics – as openly and honestly as I can without breaching confidentiality.

I believe I have made a meaningful contribution to the Club in my time on the Board. Personally, I may have contributed circa $50,000 over the 3 years both directly and through the ASF. That is not a huge sum in comparison to a couple on there but it is a pretty reasonable sum for me. I believe every board member would have contributed around that or more over the time.
As you would appreciate, the world changed significantly when Graham Smorgon was ousted and Dick agreed to come on board. His way was to empower the staff and let them do their job. The Board became a proper Board – responsible for strategic direction, risk management, prudent financial management and governance. Prior to that we envisaged we would be hands on executives. Stephen Moultan and I suggested we could attract $1M between us. I did not personally attract $500,000 in new business but perhaps the number is $250,000 which consisted of new and the retention of disgruntled old.
I also was involved in the employment of the new CEO, the establishment of the CFC Community Fund, some financial structures to assist in player retention as well as sitting on the finance subcommittee and gaming subcommittee. In addition, the usual Board roles of strategy and leveraging contacts for the benefit of the Club. I am not sure what you think a Board member should be doing but no doubt you will impart your considerable knowledge in this field and back it up by disclosing which corporate Boards you have sat on.

Along with Stephen Moulton we set up Premier Finance – a mortgage broking business that we believe over time has potential to generate a significant revenue stream for the Club. There seems to be an implication I get some personal benefit from this business. That is blatantly untrue. The Club owns 100% of the business and gets 100% of the profit. I am an unpaid Director of the business, as is Stephen, on behalf of the Club.
The Pub deal – FOR THE FINAL TIME. I introduced the deal through a close business associate, who incidently is now a fairly major contributor to the Club. Had the deal proceeded it was on a non- recourse basis to the Club. It was never going to “kill the Club”. If the pubs went broke the CFC friendly investors would have lost money. The Club’s balance sheet would have had no exposure to the deal. Again the information posted is blatantly false. Yes, the announcement went too early – that was a mistake as due diligence was incomplete, but that was not my call. And regardless – everyone makes mistakes.

I don’t really know Michael Spartels well, having only spoken to him a few times over the last 3 years, but you said you are glad he ran even though he won’t make a difference. Well he has made a difference. He has cost the Club the best part of $50,000. But why run then Synbad? To keep the bastards honest ? We are honest. We are honest about our contributions and our expertise which is why we are seeking better qualified people to join. Have you looked at the other successful clubs’ board models. When was the last time they had an election. Do they walk people on?

You stated the Board told Mr Geminder (whose name is Ruffy NOT RALPH) he was not welcome. You imply that he leaked the story to Jake Niall to put pressure on the Board. That is simply untrue. The Board is not interested in keeping the same faces as you suggest – the Board wants worthy people to join of which Ruffy is one– not people that are seeking to jump on board now when they had no interest in the dark days. That interest smells of self interest and ego. We have discussed some of these types over the past couple of years and decided to not pursue them. Perhaps your mail is outdated.
The Constitution states the Board can invite people they believe to be suitably qualified, on to the Board. If they replace a Board member they will serve the remainder of that term before facing the members, if they are an addition they will face the members at the next available opportunity.

The Club’s reliance on the Pratt family has been grossly overstated. Yes they make a significant contribution but Club turnover has increased from around $18M - $33M in 3 years. In addition, the Club filled a $7M shortfall to fund the redevelopment. We must not forget how far behind we were in 2006 and how much has been achieved in only 3 years both on and off the field.

Synbad, you think you are better than people on the Board. Then put up or shut up. Get involved in subcommittees. Make a meaningful contribution. Have a proper conversation with me or others. Don’t continue to hide behind your alias and pot everyone from afar.

Finally, win or lose I will be at the AGM on Monday week and as always am happy to chat with whoever is interested.

Mark


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Nice response from Mark.

Synbad you should have more respect than that. We know where your biases lie so how can we take you serisously (even though most on here think you are god) but really your posts today are out of line. It appears you are trying to start a sh*t fight.

And MODS, if poeple like Synbad continue to make false accusations then they should be made to use their real name and not hide behind a character.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:15 pm 
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Mark H wrote:
I don’t really know Michael Spartels well, having only spoken to him a few times over the last 3 years, but you said you are glad he ran even though he won’t make a difference. Well he has made a difference. He has cost the Club the best part of $50,000. But why run then Synbad? To keep the bastards honest ? We are honest. We are honest about our contributions and our expertise which is why we are seeking better qualified people to join. Have you looked at the other successful clubs’ board models. When was the last time they had an election. Do they walk people on?



Good post.

Can I just say though I think it is a bit unfair to say Michael cost the club 50k by challenging.

Yes challenging in elections can be at a cost to the club, but surely this cost is worth it in that it promotes accountability and keeps people on their toes.

And yes he may not make a difference.

But you yourself must realize it is extremely difficult to make a difference in an election, given you joined the Smorgon ticket in 2007 to help get elected to the board despite it being apparent that Graham was not up to it.

Incumbency is a powerful thing, but Michael thought he could make a difference, thought things were not being done as well as they should, and came on here to answer our questions and we are all the better for that in my opinion.

Also, as far as I can understand, there was a problem with the mail out of voting forms which I highly doubt was Michael's fault (unless he, as a challenger, was involved with sending out voting forms which would make the 2000 Florida and 2004 Ohio election counts look like shining examples of democracy). I assume whoever the club gave responsibility to send out the forms made a mistake, and as you say mistakes happen.

But this undoubtedly would have magnified the cost.

So good post, and I think you answered questions well. A 50k contribution is substantial and you should be praised for it.

But I think it's unfair to say Michael cost the club money.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:46 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Fire away Badman :wink:

Regards Cazzesman

PS. Nice to hear from you Mark

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:05 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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So Mr Harrison.. how about a Q and answer night.
And you think im here to feel important???.... well i think youre there to feel important.
Apart from correcting me on Ralphs/Raffs name... there isnt much there.


So will you give us an hour and a half of question time here on TC?

I dont hide behind aliases... alot of people know who i am.

And are you fair dinkum when you wanna make me not air my concerns about you or anything else i have concerns about?

What id like you to do is organise a time with the moderators here where you can answer questions... and yes im wrong on Jake Niall been handed the story by Raff,,.. it seems somebody else leaked it to the press... that was my stab in the dark.
Any idea who that may have been Mark???
And i dont have a problem with anyone running for the board thats the whole idea of what a healthy political system should entail.

and anytime you wanna meet me face to face im available... but you havent offered.Have you?

Anyome you like.. but right now im more concerned about asking you some questions on the record in here.

Interested or not Mark?

It does seem by the look of that response to me that you do have the time.

Everybody should be held accountable.

And the club has increased its turnover.. but you reckon that would have happened as we improved .. and as Pratts money brang to us Swann and Judd and a whole host of corporate interest anyway....
Im not questioning the late Richard Pratts generous contributions.. you are!!... im interested in your contribution right now....

you made some promises.. and its time we reviewed you electoral platform Mark... and performance .

Im pretty sure youre doing a ripper a job as are many on the boars........ why not just come on and set the record straight???

Youll probably win through Mark so you dont have to do it.... and youll be safe for the next 3 years....even still you should come on and clear the air about what youre about.

PS it didnt take alot of arm locking to disgrunted old corporates to get them to contribute with Dick in charge Mark, .... im talking about harvesting completely new opportunity...



Calling up Carlton people and getting them to throw in more cos Dick is there...a trained monkey can do....

So how many new virgin corporate dollars did you bring in????

Thats what you should get browny points on.....

Anyway... ill leave it to you to clear things up.
It is an election and people should be aware of what your contribution has been.

PSS i agree 50k is a huge amount of money........... but im pretty sure there are many others who would equal that and put in quite abit more as well...

And as for what other models of boards are better ... or whatever youre asking....

I look it like this....

Which board rubber stamps a coaching position without a thorough investigation and process.
Which board rubber stamps the subsequent option given to the coach so soon after the original contract.
Which of our coaches would be headhunted by opposition clubs?
How many of our coaches have been sent to coaching/sports science courses etc...to improve themselves?
Why do we only come up with a one year contract with Malaysia..?? youd want to think a sponsor SHOULD be 2 years.. and possibly up to three...
Getting the money up from 20 mill odd to 30 mill odd includes the Visy contributions and pull.. and 42,000 members and Greg Swanna contributions....with an improving list....

Anyway Mark... Jake Niall says "hello" :wink: :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:07 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Cazzesman wrote:
Image

Fire away Badman :wink:

Regards Cazzesman

PS. Nice to hear from you Mark


Oh Cazz... did you know im half Russian???? :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:11 pm 
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This isn't going well.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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verbs wrote:
This isn't going well.

sure it is.....

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:23 pm 
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Ken Hands
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Synbad wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Image

Fire away Badman :wink:

Regards Cazzesman

PS. Nice to hear from you Mark


Oh Cazz... did you know im half Russian???? :thumbsup:


For the record, which half?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:30 pm 
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Synbad I know you have your own posting style but perhaps it would be easier for all concerned if you maybe paraphrased your criticisms of Mark and the current board into a list of 5 questions with correct punctuation and no emoticons-- it might make it easier to follow and there is a greater chance you will get a response which directly addresses your concerns.

What I will say is

Quote:
and anytime you wanna meet me face to face im available... but you havent offered.Have you?

was not your strongest argument by any stretch, and this one

Quote:
PSS i agree 50k is a huge amount of money........... but im pretty sure there are many others who would equal that and put in quite abit more as well...

wasn't great either...

You cant really expect Mark to offer to make contact with you when it is you with the grievances towards him?
Secondly, I'm not sure citing personal contributions of other supporters that are above $50K does your argument any favours, particularly when you acknowledge the $50K that Mark has contributed is a "huge amount of money."


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:38 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Josh Kaplan wrote:
Synbad I know you have your own posting style but perhaps it would be easier for all concerned if you maybe paraphrased your criticisms of Mark and the current board into a list of 5 questions with correct punctuation and no emoticons-- it might make it easier to follow and there is a greater chance you will get a response which directly addresses your concerns.

What I will say is

Quote:
and anytime you wanna meet me face to face im available... but you havent offered.Have you?

was not your strongest argument by any stretch, and this one

Quote:
PSS i agree 50k is a huge amount of money........... but im pretty sure there are many others who would equal that and put in quite abit more as well...

wasn't great either...

You cant really expect Mark to offer to make contact with you when it is you with the grievances towards him?
Secondly, I'm not sure citing personal contributions of other supporters that are above $50K does your argument any favours, particularly when you acknowledge the $50K that Mark has contributed is a "huge amount of money."

Sorry did Mark say an election would cost the club 50k????

And you and i have arguments Josh but i still like you.....sometimes

id like MH to give us a time here and answer questions.

Not to be a politician.

Can he do that?


Conundrum... the drinking half of me is Russian ... :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:56 am 
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Ken Hunter
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@#$%&! me you are a comedian today Synbad.

Quote:
and anytime you wanna meet me face to face im available... but you havent offered.Have you?


This absolutely pissed me up. :lol: If you can't see how silly that is, then there is no hope for you.

I mean, I have no problem with anyone rocking the boat, but seriously.... you have delusions of grandeur if you think you should be approached by the board.


Synbad wrote:
id like MH to give us a time here and answer questions.

Not to be a politician.

I'd like to see all the board members up for re-election do the same, so no problem there, but that last line is a bit rich, considering every statement made by Spartels was a simple motherhood statement with no substance.... a perfect politicians retort to the questions provided. Very uninspired.

If you are going to rock the boat, then put the same acid on Spartels, or anyone else for that matter. I don't see you ripping into your mates presentation, given it gives the members jack to vote for.

:lol:

comments made are my personal views and not that of the Admin/Moderators of TC

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The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time
A garden to nurture and protect

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