I find that Houlihan drifts in and out and I am surprised that he finished so high in the B&F. Maybe I expect too much of him because he has so much experience and class....

I can't tell you how excited I am to hear that about Hadley, to hear that they have been getting him right for 2010 is music to my ears, I thought he was a goner. When Hadley has stood up he has been critical to our success. It's fantastic to have him and Mclean ready to explode in 2010..

Have to agree with Russell, I have been a big critic, but finishing 6th in our return to September is a huge leap forward......Especially outpolling Judd from RD12 onwards.

I'm pretty sure Ratts said that Yarran was going to get plenty of game time this year, so I expect him to play RD1.

What is it you don't rate about Grigg and Browne?
I know Browne can be inconsistent with his disposal, but Grigg was going along really well until this season.......Come to think of it both Browne and Grigg have had a bad season, but up until this year both looked really promising....Browne maybe has had second year blues??

_________________
Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

Just because I don't rate those players (Grigg, Browne) doesn't mean they don't have upside; that's the beauty of this list. They are not AFL ready imo but they have shown the signs

Both Browne and Grigg have not shown me that they can consistently dispose of the ball at AFL level: consistently. When they do, they are ready for the big time. They are almost there...just their kicking is a BIG issue; Grigg in particular.

The NAB game Grigg played against Geelong with Russell in the guts with all our seniors out was outstanding. They willed us, they carried us at times. But Grigg's kicking was ordinary. He kicked a good goal in that game too, but he is not a dead eye dick for a one sided (left) player. His handball leaves alot to be desired. Remember, he's a one sided (70's type of player). Lets put it this way, Grigg has a role to play. On the ball imo. But there's a few ahead of him there imo.

In fairness to both of them, they did have injury interupted preseasons and during the season too. That has a huge impact on anybody let alone Grigg and Browne. I'm expecting both of them to be at least 20% better players than in 2009. They could even be starters in the first 22 for all we know. They may get it together. Pressure for spots...unreal.

As for the perception that Houlihan drifts in and out of games, the same applies to Russell. They get given jobs to do, and sometimes their stats don't reflect the role they have performed for the team, and that's what fans expect. But fans don't know what the instructions of the coach are.

I watch Houla closely, mainly because when he gets it he's an absolute joy to watch him for a purists POV, but also to determine if I'm being abit apologetic for him, and his critcs are right. But from what I have seen, he's in our top 10. He can play forward, midfield and back effectively. Most of us would like to see him having shots at goal. But when he tags he tags well; a beautiful mover with footy smarts. Real footy smarts. He's underrated by some Carlton supporters, but from most other footy fans Houla is plainly a class act...and they would take him at the drop of a hat.

Hadley and McLean....and Carrazzo and Joseph in the same team? Is that possible? My oath it is. They are all hard nuts, and midfielders at that. One tough unit. If we wanted more hard and tough bodies in the guts we can always throw in Walker, Russell or Grigg. And theres plenty of class around them Judd, Gibbs, Murphy (say no more)...Simpson...and soon Betts and later Yarran and Robinson.

The midfield is definetely our strength, along with our 4 good ruckmen and 3 of them are freaks and are (Kreuzer, Warnock and Hampson) in my starting 22.

I'm sure the intention is to play Yarran forward in 2010; it was in 2009 too.. Why wouldn't you? He's 18 and oozes class, and knows where the goals are. Well his engine may not allow him to endure a whole season. Consistency will be his issue in 2010; no doubt he'll take the next step though, and I'm guessing he'll snag at least 10 goals in 2010.

I can't wait for February and September 2010, and I know everything in between is going to have highs and lows. More high's than lows no doubt.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Agree on all accounts Bondi, especially in regards to our midfield being our strength..
Even though we lost Stevens, we have gained a more desperate player in Brock, Hadley is set to reap the rewards of labour pain, and a few of our younger guys will expand their spectrum.

I also think there might be a few players wanting to show the football world that we are not lost without Fev....or maybe they just want to show Fev, if you catch my drift.

_________________
Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

I catch your drift.

I too would want to prove to the footy world that my team didn't revolve around Fev when I stepped out onto the park with my other 21 capable good mates.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

This is a timely exercise leading up to the draft period...

AJ Jamo T-Bird
JR Bower Scotland
Simmo Brock Gibbs
Hoops Carlos/Hendo Tex
Betts Kreuzer Waite

Hammer Judd Murph

Austin, Carrots, Robbo, Yarran

Emerg: Armfield, Hadley, Warnock/Sauce

A couple of things that occurred to me during this exercise:

1) We have the 'cattle' now. There'll need to be some list tweaking here and there, but the players on our list now are basically the ones we are counting on to bring us #17. The question is - will our coaching staff be able to get the most out of the group at the right time?

2) Forward structure. I'm expecting some post-Fev teething problems in 2010, but I am excited by the prospect of multiple goal kickers rather than relying on one target. Longer term, I'm sure this will make us a better team. No one player will replace Fev....but Kreuzer, Waite, Hendo, Carlos, Tex, Austin and T-Bird (not including Fish or Wiggo, and assuming Cloke leaves) are mobile and flexible marking targets. None of them will kick 80 goals next year, but we have good flexibility which gives us the potential to cause headaches for different opponents in a variety of conditions. Plus there are others that will play mostly further up the ground but can also be used as part of our goal square rotations in a less predictable structure (eg. Robbo, Judd, Gibbs, Grigg, Browne). Not to mention what Betts, Garlett and Yarran should bring us. The biggest 'X-Factor' is Hammer, IMO. If he can develop his forward play, he could be a massive attacking weapon (how are clubs going to match up against a 200cm+ player with his great pace, leap and workrate?!). Again, the challenge is for the coaching staff and MC to get our structures and style of play right to maximise the talent of all these players...

3) Going into the draft period, I think what we need is:

*another quality small/medium defender who can carry the ball and set the play up from defence. A player that kicks well but can contribute defensively. It's a worry that we are crying out for this type of player yet I couldn't select Johnson, Grigg, Joey, Armfield or Browne in my team. JR is coming along nicely, but I have Scotland on the other half back flank almost by default. We might be forced to play Simmo or Gibbs back there more. Big year coming up for Johnson, Grigg, Joey, Armfield and Browne (Armfield is leading this pack at the moment, but he MUST improve his disposal otherwise I can't see him being part of #17). O'Keefe's development might end up being really important to us as well; and

*another player that can hold down FB, because Jamo is the only genuine FB we have IMO. Bower & T-Bird can play there too, but they (like Carlos, Waite and Austin) are much better suited to playing CHB/HB when in defence. I personally don't think Goose offers us much, because he doesn't really provide anything we don't already have. He's just another CHB (with a battered body). I'd be interested to know how much footy Hendo has played deep in defence? Does he have the pace off the mark to play at FB if required?


Anyway, looking forward to seeing what happens during the draft period...but I think the pressure is really on the coaching staff now to get the best of what is a very exciting list...

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Great effort. Can't really fault this team. I'd like to have Hadley and Warnock and Garlett and Armfield in the 22. But it's hard to squeeze them all in.

Allow me then: too tall. That is virtually the team that suffered inconsistent play early on in the season.

Then we started tinkering with bigger bodies, and more runners. I honestly believe that we need to focus on having a maximum of 7 talls on the field at a given time. Assuming that there are deserving candidates for the smaller types, we will win more than we lose.

On a more specific note, Robbo has some work to do before he gets a real crack. Was regularly selfish last year despite his tough acts, and will still fade out because of his high-intensity patches. I'd rather we groom him properly instead of bringing him in every second week for a spark.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Which talls made us inconsistent early last year jimmae?

Rnd 1 WON with 8 talls: (Backs)Jamison Bower Thornton (Rucks) Kreuzer Jacobs (Fwds) Waite Fevola Cloke
Rnd 2 WON with 8 talls: (Backs)Jamison Bower Thornton (Rucks) Kreuzer Jacobs (Fwds) Waite Fevola Cloke
Rnd 3 LOST with 7 talls: (Backs)Bower Thornton (Rucks) Kreuzer Jacobs (Fwds) Waite Fevola Cloke
Rnd 4 LOST with 7 talls: (Backs)Bower Thornton (Rucks) Kreuzer Jacobs (Fwds) Waite Fevola Cloke
Rnd 5 WON with 8 talls: (Backs)Jamison Bower Thornton (Rucks) Kreuzer Cloke(Fwds) Waite Fevola Setanta

Just from the above, it suggests we win with 8 talls and lose with 7 talls.

Cloke is slow so he could easily be replaced by the quicker and more athletic Warnock
Henderson comes in for Fevola
Add the super fast Hammer and that makes 9 talls who are not slow

The point being that with Warnock coming in and replacing Cloke, the athleticism of all the other talls coupled with another preseason and the experience gained from the 2009 campaign, the improved engines of our young running players, winning the ball more at clearances with a dominant ruck division and added grunt in the guts with McLean (and return of Hadley), we should be creating play (in possession) moreso rather than chasing butt (energy sapping defending) I don't think the 8 talls I've mentioned will slow us down, in fact I think we provide a mismatch nightmare for the opposition.

We do have pace with Waite, Walker, Setanta. Hampson, Bower who actually all tall, and genuine pace from the mids in Judd, Russell, Armfield, Betts, Garlett, Joseph, Simpson and Robinson across the board. Kreuzer, Henderson, Jamison and Thornton are not slow, and Warnock has quite a good engine on him when fit.

It's all debatable, but I think we can't compare our talls with the talls from the other 15 teams because of their athletic prowess, and therefore there should not be a set rule as to what the minimum and maximums talls we should play every game. A horses for courses approach is a better way to go and we should look at the structure on a week by week basis.

I think we are going to show improvement on every line in 2010, just because of maturity and experience gained in 2009 and the next preseason under the belts of a list comprising of mainly young developing bodies.

@#$%&! its a good list.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Jimmae - I take your point about Robbo (he was the last player I picked in the 22), but who would you replace him with? Hadley spent a lot of the season in the VFL, and with Brock arriving I think Hadley has a challenge ahead of him to be in our best 22. And at this stage, the likes of Armfield, Browne, Grigg, Joey and Johnson haven't shown that they have more up-side than Robbo, IMO.

And I don't think that team is too tall. You say a max of 7 talls on the field - I'm starting with Jamo, T-Bird, Bower, Kreuzer, Waite (if we count him as a 'tall'), Carlos/Hendo, & Hammer. That's 7. And they are all far from 'lumbering' types. So I don't really understand why you think my team is too tall...

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Robbo will all the better for the experience and with another preseason ahead of him, should improve.
Despite the upside of Robbo, I don't think he replaces Armfield just like that, because Armfield has pace to break the lines and take on the game, guts, determination and is a good tackler, furthermore, he did improve his kicking and who is to say he can't improve his kicking further in 2010.

Hadley will surprise many in 2010. Last 2 years Cordy has been getting his body right. Hadley finished the season in the seniors and his input should not be underestimated. A fit Hadley is a bonafide senior player, and unfit Hadley (or anyone else unfit) will need time to improve in the Ants.

I don't think your team has too many talls abns. Like you said, all talls selected are not slow.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I'm going really tall ...but mobile...and I'm backing Austin (till he proves me wrong)
for dry and fast tracks (and indoors):

B: Armfield Jamison Thornton
HB: Bower Austin Russell
C: Walker McLean Waite
HF: Houlihan Setanta Murphy
F: Kreuzer Henderson Betts

FOLL: Warnock Judd Gibbs

INT: Hampson Carrazzo Simpson Joseph

EM: Hadley Robinson Scotland Yarran...

...maybe Grigg, Anderson, Garlett and Pick 12.

Hadley and McLean I would love to have them rotating, but can't fit everyone in so I have Carrazzo for that role. Form will determine which of McLean and Hadley plays.

Injury and form will play a big part in the shape of the team, same to the weather and size of ground, as well as the profile of the opposition, so I expect the emergencies to feature a lot.

I really beileve that Austin will make CHB his own (convinced after debating Maguire and watching some clips of Austin breaking the lines). Hoping it's this year.

That's 10 talls and it doesn't look slow to me, and I expect the midfield to further develop their stamina, strength and for some pace. I also expect we will have more of the ball with an improved midfield and dominant ruck division (rotating between defensive ruck, forward ruck and interchange), and more forward entries towards our multi pronged attack.

Lets get em. Here come the Bluebaggers Tall or not, they are coming.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I like your 22 bondiblue. 4 talls down back maybe a little excessive, and the forward line could be with a little more defensive pressure.


B: Joseph Jamison Thornton
HB: Armfield Bower Russell
C: Murphy McLean Waite
HF: Walker Setanta Yarran
F: Kreuzer Henderson Betts

FOLL: Warnock Judd Gibbs

INT: Hampson Carrazzo Simpson Houlihan

EM: Hadley Robinson Scotland Austin...

...maybe Grigg, Anderson, Garlett and Pick 12.

Joseph down back to take on there best small forward, i think Bower has done well at CHB before. So Austin to go.
The rest is just repositioning of players.
Defence is a good mix of talls and smalls, with a super speedy HF line, who like to run and break the lines.
Center and Followers just ooze class, (206 still to prove himself)
The forward 6 are all good defensive, quick players, who hopefully will share the load and kick winning scores (Kreuzer as 3rd tall is an exciting prospect, imagine our defense taking on that forward line Thornton would be on Kreuzer. OUCH!!!) no diss on T-bird

Welcome aboard SOS4PM.

Yeah I like your...love your team a lot.

The point I'm making is that you can have a tall mobile team depending on who your opponent is.
Doggies circa 09 you wouldn't have a defense like that, but with the addition of Hall and the new tall they are developing as a forward, we may have to to cover them. Horses for courses.

The other point I'm making is that Austin may be ready to start his apprnticeship full time at CHB post 09-10 preseason. If not, it doesn't matter even if Waite isn't a defender.

Your point about Kreuzer and Thornton is about mismatches in our advantage for a change.

Don't underestimate Warnock. He's in !!

Furthermore, I had Bower on Brad Dick, Jamison on Medhurst and Russell on Didak, with Thornton as the 3rd man up and Austin running with Cloke and beating him for pace.

Horses for courses, flexibility, mobility...that's what we have on our list.

I have 10 talls or 11 if you include Walker. Why can't we have more than 7 talls given the type of players we have?

Welcome aboard, I hope SOS comes back home where he will get a taste for another flag...and not the Aints.

Who knows, 2010 may have a Blues vs Pies GF; anything can happen.

With the inclusion of McLean to add to the in and under strength as feeders, we are really strong at the ball.

Despite the fact I have Scotland as an emergency, (and that's only because he's at the end of his career whilst the team is on a cusp), we have the opportunity to finally release him and his skills (two sided by hand and foot) from the important HB attack and have him in the guts; next to Judd. He's very strong and he's my and I've never seen him fail in the midfield. IMO he's a good defensive midfielder in a tough close game.

At this minute, Scotland is my No. 1 choice to be the in and under if we were playing in the GF in 2010; his last hoorah against the Pies.

Add Carrazzo with him, Had;ey and McLean and we have the strongest body for body midfield in the comp if we want to play theat style. Rossy would love them. With those guys having Warnock, Kreuzer and Hammer feeding them....bring on the Cats...and the Saints.

Name them, we can match them and now add Judd, Gibbs, Murphy, Walker and Simpson to that.

Delicious.

eE are finally tough. Add another preseason to the young fellas and it's game on.

Anything can happen 2010: The Golden Decade for the Blues.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

One tagger/small defender? Teams will kill us. I've already posted my 22, I think it's great that we've got some athletic talls but why load up the side with them?

How many of them can play on medium/small types? Very few, and they most certainly have their limitations. With the height through our midfield, 6 talls on field and 1 tall on the bench is enough (assuming the talls are in good nick).

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Teamboard updated

Changes
------------
- Removed player(s) Cameron Cloke


Future Updates
------------
- Further 2010 Deletions & Elevations
- 2010 Draftees
- Squad numbers
- Vice-captaincy designations

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I like your philosophy jimmae, and don't think you're wrong. BUT, I don't believe it's the only way forward.

The team I just posted was just to highlight what a tall team can look like. Yeah it has 10 talls, but do we really have to only play 6-7 talls as the max? Why? Why not 8? Why not 9? What is a tall?

The point is that we can have a taller team if we dominate possession with the elite ruck midfield division. Let the opposition play tag rather than us. I think in the past we were all conscious of tagging the best of the opposition. I believe the tables will turn in 2010, and we should focus on gettting that pill by using our personnel advantage as an advantage.

Yep one tagger (Joseph) instead of 3 taggers.

Jamison, Bower, Austin and Thornton are talls who can player on mediums in the back half.

Height through the midfield comes from Walker and Waite on wings. They are not slow, lumbering talls. That's where your definition of talls needs attention imo. Hammer isn't slow, and he and Kreuzer have shown that they perform like mids with their 2nd and 3rd efforts.

I remember how the game was revolutionised with the Collingwood 6 foot wingman in the 70's, then the mosquito fleet in the 80's, the the twin towers (Richo and Otten) in the 90's then the triple towers (Brown, Bradshaw and Lynch) in the naughties and now we have the tough skillful Cats in the latter part of the 00's...the game changes teams muster up an advantage to stretch the opposition; sometimes that's by going tall.

I'm interested in the qualities of our personnel moreso than a dogmatic fixation on numbers (max no of talls). So which talls do we not include and why? I'm not 100% sure but correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think have too many talls makes us slow carrying lumbering talls. Who are the lumbering talls?

I'll go and check your team again.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Like I said previously, I like that team. I would be very happy to run out with that team next week.

I can't see where your point that having only one tagger in the team the opposition will kill us. You have the tagger in the BP, Am I seeing that right?

3 talls down back
2 tall ruckmen
3 talls forward (Waite and Walker are very mobile too)

That's 8 talls; fair enough.

What happens if Warnock hits his straps and delivers? Do you drop one of Hammer or Kreuzer?
What if Setanta steps up? His times for the beep test this week was very good. Do you drop Henderson?

It's tough. I'm just seeking to understand your philosophy/ preface on the selection table because I don't consider you a goof.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Yeah, if form permitted and it unbalanced the side to keep both in, I would drop someone. It's tough, but that's football.

I can point at guys people would squeeze out of my 22 for a tall and tell you exactly what their role is:

Garlett - the second forward pocket we need
Houlihan - versatile and polished
Scotland - ditto
Yarran - a creative force through the attacking half of the ground if his late-season VFL form converts
Armfield - the small defender we need because most weeks Joseph will be running a midfield tag

Everybody in my 22 has a role a to play that suits the game style we've been building. I don't back our mob to control possession of the football to the point where loose ball gets don't exist. We certainly have the straight line speed in our talls, but do we honestly feel they will be able to trap or beat a smaller type with their agility?

Eventually they may get the jump on them by their game sense getting up to speed and anticipating the direction to go for a tackle, side-step but I don't see that happening over one pre-season. I think of some of these talls and I think about Waite trying to tackle blokes playing CHF a few years back. But just look at him now.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Good stuff jimmae. It's a tough gig this AFL caper. There's a bit of deptyh which will serve us well if injury happens, but you gotta feel for these blokes playing to hold or take, to make a position their own.

I love it. Oh yeah...and imo we have plenty of talls...mobile ones to. Austin is the one I feel for. If he was on our list at the time when Thornton was promoted from a rookie; he would have been a shoe in. We were a very short team back then.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Both of those last two points you highlight are linked:

Think back to Waite's inconsistent season up forward before he got shuffled down back by Pagan, then Ratten.

He would regularly have opposition mids side-stepping him when he went for the tackle, resulting in 'whiffs' or arm tackles, to use NFL terms. Fast-forward to early on this season just passed, and Jarrad, probably close to 10 kilos heavier, was tormenting anything in sight with his tackling.

Is he more agile? I'd say not, but he has a greater sense of what's happening around him, thinks about where his opponent needs to run to dispose, makes life difficult for him, gets him to hesitate and BANG, turnover. Anticipation makes up for any comparative misgivings from an athletic standpoint.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.