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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:00 am 
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Bruce Doull
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eric pascoe wrote:
BlueRob wrote:
This was a minor incident outside of football that was embarrassing ...however after 6 months or so ... this is gunna come back to bite us. The Carlton football club has made a grave mistake which will cost the club dearly next year. After 40 years supporting this club ... this has to be the dumbest football decision I have ever seen. The media are laughing ... the other clubs are laughing ..... more at us than Fev.

A very bad football decision. Club Culture is greatly overrated ... give me real talent any day.

Badly Done Mr Swann.


I, too, agree.
Worst decision made by the club in the 45 years that I've followed them.
Will set us back 5 years. Melbourne willl win a flag before us.
Sack the board.


:lol:

I'm loving the rewriting of history going on here.

I'll assume you guys were out to lunch when we got busted for the brown paper bags a few years ago.

But, yeah, this is the worst decision made by the club. Good one. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:05 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
I seriously do not believe that Fev leaving or staying affects our premiership chances...this is directly affected by our midfield and how we setup. Our structures and match day game planning will determine how far we go next year and it was going to determine it with or without Fev. Let's face it...with Fev we could not develop an effective foward line strategy....will we be able to do this without him? If so then we have developed as a team but if not it will not be due to Fev's absence (as it wasnt there to begin with)...it will be due to something lacking in the coaching department.


I find it strange that posters just look at Fev's impact within our own structure and totally ignore the oppostion. Fev got the best defender week in, week out. Now the best defender might get a Kruezer or he might get a Cloke so Fev not being at Carlton is a bit of a double edge sword. How many goals can our forward create with the best defender on him and can he minimise the influence of that best defender. Scarlett won't be going to Fev any more he might play on Cloke.


Last edited by woof on Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:12 am 
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Bruce Doull
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woof wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
I seriously do not believe that Fev leaving or staying affects our premiership chances...this is directly affected by our midfield and how we setup. Our structures and match day game planning will determine how far we go next year and it was going to determine it with or without Fev. Let's face it...with Fev we could not develop an effective foward line strategy....will we be able to do this without him? If so then we have developed as a team but if not it will not be due to Fev's absence (as it wasnt there to begin with)...it will be due to something lacking in the coaching department.


I find it strange that posters just look at Fev's impact within our own structure and totally ignore the oppostion. Fev got the best defender week in, week out. Now the best defender might get a Kruezer or he might get a Cloke so Fev not being at Carlton has a bit of a double edge sword. How many goals can our forward create with the best defender on him and can he minimise the influence of that best defender. Scarlett won't be going to Fev any more he might play on Cloke.


I somehow doubt this is anything but at the forefront of many minds here.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:15 am 
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Bruce Doull
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How will Fev be going in 2015 when Henderson is 25 and has around 100 games under his belt? :wink:

At the same time Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer will still be under 30 years of age. Judd will probably have a couple of years left in him, too.

Those complaining about Fev's trade are looking too short sighted IMO. Assuming my 2015 scenario comes to fruition, I expect Fev's biggest fans will then become Henderson's biggest fans. While not taking even one second to appreciate the irony of it all.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:22 am 
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Bruce Doull
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BlueRob wrote:
This was a minor incident outside of football that was embarrassing ...however after 6 months or so ... this is gunna come back to bite us. The Carlton football club has made a grave mistake which will cost the club dearly next year. After 40 years supporting this club ... this has to be the dumbest football decision I have ever seen. The media are laughing ... the other clubs are laughing ..... more at us than Fev.

A very bad football decision. Club Culture is greatly overrated ... give me real talent any day.

Badly Done Mr Swann.


You're kidding, right?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:25 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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I am all for the Fev trade but the discussion should not be limited to the amount of goals he kicks. The discussion needs to be widened to the benefits for the opposition with Fev not being in the team and the ability of our next best forward being able to cope with and minimise the impact of the oppositions best defender. It will be an interesting year.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:39 am 
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Bruce Doull
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The opposition will similarly have to come up with a better defensive strategy than "Double team Fevola".

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:45 am 
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Bruce Doull
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woof wrote:
I am all for the Fev trade but the discussion should not be limited to the amount of goals he kicks. The discussion needs to be widened to the benefits for the opposition with Fev not being in the team and the ability of our next best forward being able to cope with and minimise the impact of the oppositions best defender. It will be an interesting year.


This is true, while we are it we can also discuss the benefits of having not having a senior team member undermining the authority of the captain and coach during team meetings. Not to mention failing to follow instructions on the field. With any luck we’ll now see a group of 22 players working with each other to perform as a team. Rtaher than having a senior player performing for the big screen.

Fev was great for us when we were shit because we had few other shining lights. He’s a great individual player and has given us all a lot of great memories, don’t get me wrong, but he’s not the world’s best example of a team player.

Like many others Fevola frustrated me as many times a game as he made me jump up and cheer. It was almost as if everytime I wanted him gone it was counteracted with a quarter of brilliance that won us a game. He will always divide opinions and will always frustrate those involved with the club he plays for. That’s his intrinsic nature. Flawed genius has never been a more appropriate cliché.

But, now, after finally embracing the way to build a list in the post draft-era, we have so much to look forward to and club’s administration shoulders the responsibility for providing our team with the best chance humanly possible to reach its maximum potential. I firmly believe cutting Fev is the best decision for our team going forward. If that means taking a step back in 2010 in order to achieve the ultimate goal, then that is a small sacrifice to make.

Perhaps the only thing the club has done wrong is not trading Fev years ago when it was first seriously given thought. It’s certainly not as if the board and coaching staff woke up the day after the Brownlow and said, gee, you know, have any of you guys ever thought of trading Fev. This has been a decision simmering along for some years now.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:01 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I find it amusing that we make fun of Richmond for hanging on to Richo, and stifling the development of alternative forward structures, but some wanted to do exactly the same with Fev.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:21 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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camelboy wrote:
This is true, while we are it we can also discuss the benefits of having not having a senior team member undermining the authority of the captain and coach during team meetings. Not to mention failing to follow instructions on the field. With any luck we’ll now see a group of 22 players working with each other to perform as a team. Rtaher than having a senior player performing for the big screen.



So if Fev did not stuff up on Brownlow night the club and its leaders were happy to put up with this, or were we going to trade him anyway?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:08 am 
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Bruce Doull
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woof wrote:
camelboy wrote:
This is true, while we are it we can also discuss the benefits of having not having a senior team member undermining the authority of the captain and coach during team meetings. Not to mention failing to follow instructions on the field. With any luck we’ll now see a group of 22 players working with each other to perform as a team. Rtaher than having a senior player performing for the big screen.



So if Fev did not stuff up on Brownlow night the club and its leaders were happy to put up with this, or were we going to trade him anyway?


I can't answer that, but I suspect the answer is he would have been staying. And it has to be said, his last game for the club was one of his better “team” performances for quite some time. That’s part of the Fevola enigma, he teases you with signs that he is become a more rounded team player, but then he has the temerity to quickly take that away with a display of petulance that just leaves you scratching your head in disbelief.

I’m not one for putting too much faith in what Dwayne Russell has to say, but his line that Fev is the cure and the disease is a perfect description. The question is, can our team ever function properly with a guy like this holding such a dominant role in our setup?

I do admit, as supporters, this is a really tough one to get our heads around. When the Brownlow stuff first became known I was on the fence and my opinion was that I would support the club’s decision on Fev’s future either way on the basis they would be better placed to know the full extent of the issues.

However, once the decision to trade Fev was made official it allowed me to really look at the situation as objectively as I could. Of course, sitting here in Canberra, its still hard to get a genuine grasp of what the players and club knows and feels. But from what I have been able to ascertain I am fully supportive of the club’s eventual decision.

Part of me still questions myself, asking do I now hold this view because it is convenient and it helps me deal with the situation, or do I genuinely believe the club has done the right thing. I am as certain as I can be it is the later.

One thing I do know for fact, regardless of where any guy on our list ends up playing their football, I will always follow Carlton. It’s unconditional. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Robert Walls

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eric pascoe wrote:
BlueRob wrote:
This was a minor incident outside of football that was embarrassing ...however after 6 months or so ... this is gunna come back to bite us. The Carlton football club has made a grave mistake which will cost the club dearly next year. After 40 years supporting this club ... this has to be the dumbest football decision I have ever seen. The media are laughing ... the other clubs are laughing ..... more at us than Fev.

A very bad football decision. Club Culture is greatly overrated ... give me real talent any day.

Badly Done Mr Swann.


I, too, agree.
Worst decision made by the club in the 45 years that I've followed them.
Will set us back 5 years. Melbourne willl win a flag before us.
Sack the board.


Let me get this right.
Fev probably has 2-3 good years left in him.
In that time, someone else is being given an opportunity to develop themselves (no guarantees they'll succeed, but out of this mess, they are getting a chance) and maybe.....just maybe.....be ready to pounce onto the scene at about the same time Fev retires/sacked/form slump.
Now this player may not have been ready in 2012 had Fev not gone this year, by which time, we probably would still be without flag 17.....and no flowering succession plan

Unless Carlton were on the cusp of a flag in the next couple of years (and they're miles off it IMHO), the Fev decision is the BEST decision made by the club this decade.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:00 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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99prelim wrote:

Let me get this right.
Fev probably has 2-3 good years left in him.
In that time, someone else is being given an opportunity to develop themselves (no guarantees they'll succeed, but out of this mess, they are getting a chance) and maybe.....just maybe.....be ready to pounce onto the scene at about the same time Fev retires/sacked/form slump.
Now this player may not have been ready in 2012 had Fev not gone this year, by which time, we probably would still be without flag 17.....and no flowering succession plan

Unless Carlton were on the cusp of a flag in the next couple of years (and they're miles off it IMHO), the Fev decision is the BEST decision made by the club this decade.


The amount of crystal ball gazing occurring on these pages is ridiculous. I'm surprised no one is talking about the potential consequences of losing the chance to draft Fev's kids to Carlton in 2030. All we can say with any certainty is that we lost one supremely talented but very stupid individual who had proven himself one of the best forwards in the game against two players with comparable talent/potential and hopefully a little more between the ears - it's a gamble pure and simple. Talking about Henderson playing 100 games and being ready in 2012 to kick 100 goals vs Fev being on the scrapheap is not an argument - it's a fantasy, sure we can hope but criticising people who take the view that a bird (albeit an often drunk one) in the hand was better than two in the bush isn't reasonable. So Swann writing to members explaining the position is fair enough. I think it demonstrates that the Club found it a hard decision to make and that's something that members who supported Fev would want to know.

The club's obviously chosen a 'one step back, two steps forward' approach - I think they may have snuck a Premiership with Fev still around in the next couple of years but they're hoping to make sure we're up the top for a long time over the next decade. I hope they're right. That's all any of us can really do given the unknown quantity that we got in exchange for Fev.

Final beef - to the guy who links our form under Pagan to Fev's attitude - how about drawing the same comparison with other players that never won a flag but were brilliant players in their own right - Ablett Snr, Harvey, Buckley to name a few. And then to cap it off, in the same thought pattern, you make the argument that people wanting Fev to stay are thinking about the individual and not the team? :screwy:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Tommy Alvin wrote:
99prelim wrote:

Let me get this right.
Fev probably has 2-3 good years left in him.
In that time, someone else is being given an opportunity to develop themselves (no guarantees they'll succeed, but out of this mess, they are getting a chance) and maybe.....just maybe.....be ready to pounce onto the scene at about the same time Fev retires/sacked/form slump.
Now this player may not have been ready in 2012 had Fev not gone this year, by which time, we probably would still be without flag 17.....and no flowering succession plan

Unless Carlton were on the cusp of a flag in the next couple of years (and they're miles off it IMHO), the Fev decision is the BEST decision made by the club this decade.


The amount of crystal ball gazing occurring on these pages is ridiculous. I'm surprised no one is talking about the potential consequences of losing the chance to draft Fev's kids to Carlton in 2030. All we can say with any certainty is that we lost one supremely talented but very stupid individual who had proven himself one of the best forwards in the game against two players with comparable talent/potential and hopefully a little more between the ears - it's a gamble pure and simple. Talking about Henderson playing 100 games and being ready in 2012 to kick 100 goals vs Fev being on the scrapheap is not an argument - it's a fantasy, sure we can hope but criticising people who take the view that a bird (albeit an often drunk one) in the hand was better than two in the bush isn't reasonable. So Swann writing to members explaining the position is fair enough. I think it demonstrates that the Club found it a hard decision to make and that's something that members who supported Fev would want to know.

The club's obviously chosen a 'one step back, two steps forward' approach - I think they may have snuck a Premiership with Fev still around in the next couple of years but they're hoping to make sure we're up the top for a long time over the next decade. I hope they're right. That's all any of us can really do given the unknown quantity that we got in exchange for Fev.

Final beef - to the guy who links our form under Pagan to Fev's attitude - how about drawing the same comparison with other players that never won a flag but were brilliant players in their own right - Ablett Snr, Harvey, Buckley to name a few. And then to cap it off, in the same thought pattern, you make the argument that people wanting Fev to stay are thinking about the individual and not the team? :screwy:


Fev would have to play 5 seasons for Brisbane for any chance of any child of his (3 girls so far, with one to come, IIRC?) being Father/Son picked to them. He's already played more than 200 for us.

No brainer, IMO. We're in pole position for any mini-Fevs, and I don't see that chance evaporating any time soon.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
BlueRob wrote:
This was a minor incident outside of football that was embarrassing ...however after 6 months or so ... this is gunna come back to bite us. The Carlton football club has made a grave mistake which will cost the club dearly next year. After 40 years supporting this club ... this has to be the dumbest football decision I have ever seen. The media are laughing ... the other clubs are laughing ..... more at us than Fev.

A very bad football decision. Club Culture is greatly overrated ... give me real talent any day.

Badly Done Mr Swann.


You're kidding, right?

Image


Damnit KK what have I told you about using my bit!?! :mad:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:32 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
No brainer, IMO. We're in pole position for any mini-Fevs, and I don't see that chance evaporating any time soon.


I guess there had to be one who took the bait, KK. But it's sad that it's come to this.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Donstuie wrote:
Damnit KK what have I told you about using my bit!?! :mad:


So sue me :razz:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Tommy Alvin wrote:
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
No brainer, IMO. We're in pole position for any mini-Fevs, and I don't see that chance evaporating any time soon.


I guess there had to be one who took the bait, KK. But it's sad that it's come to this.


I wasn't taking the bait, more playing straight man for you and spelling it out for those who don't seem to understand :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:12 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
Tommy Alvin wrote:
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
No brainer, IMO. We're in pole position for any mini-Fevs, and I don't see that chance evaporating any time soon.


I guess there had to be one who took the bait, KK. But it's sad that it's come to this.


I wasn't taking the bait, more playing straight man for you and spelling it out for those who don't seem to understand :wink:


I dip my lid to you KK. Here's hoping his 4th is a boy!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Tommy Alvin wrote:
Here's hoping his 4th is a boy!!!


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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