I was REALLY hoping this woulnd't become another Fev-thread

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Fev is symptomatic of the bigger issue unfortunately don.

_________________
The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time
A garden to nurture and protect

#DopeThenStash

Maybe Siegfried,
you could select a footy club that most closely reflects your own personal values rather than expecting a club to fit your expectations and doctrine?
maybe St.kilda?
If Dick Pratt believed in Fev despite his obvious flaws,then that's good enough for me.
I love watching Fev play,and I hope he will go to AA and never drink again.
All the endless pages about it ..I have faith that he will grow and become the champ we al hope he will be.
i don't want to watch him do that at another club.
I think the old JC put it best...something about stones and glass houses.
Compassion people...it's an illness for hec's sake.

_________________
That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

fascinating read. may make some feel a little uncomfortable. there is too much of a boys club theme running through many different facets at CFC. we can look after our mates, or we can become unwavering in our commitment to winning a premiership. don't think we can have both.

_________________
i don't wanna spend my life explaining myself. Either you get it, or you don't- Frank Zappa

I obviously can't speak for Seigfreid but I didn't read what he read as personal values just observation on what might constitute sound leadership principles that wouldn't go astray at CFC.

I also hope that Fev does what you hope he will do but, he needs a great deal of help as he has proven time and time again that he cannot do it on his own.

_________________
"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

I didn't read it because I never ead anything that is preceded by the writer claiming to be an expert.
I wouldn't dare claim to be an expert on leadership and management despite my history.
Let others be the judge of who is an expert. That's how it's usually done.

_________________
Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

The real question, is, "Can Geelong ever be like us?"

_________________
Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Hmm.... we've won one flag in 22 years.

And we're suggesting we have nothing to learn from Geelong? We're suggesting we shouldn't be emulating some of the core values that team lives (and wins) by?

Because, clearly... we've got runs on the board in the modern game.

We did beat them.

I guess that's a start.

It was interesting to hear one of the commentators say today, that Mark Thompson was very nearly sacked it 2006.

Is this where we're at the moment ?.



Just going by some of the threads here, there is doubt in Rattens ability to coach, just like Bomber Thompson in 2006.

_________________
BRING BACK PERFORMANCE BASE PAYMENTS !!!

Oh dear, we've spent around 130 pages on that topic and you want to bring it up again??!!

Actually my point was, if the consensus is that we are in the same boat as Geelong in 2006, then we should win a flag next year

_________________
BRING BACK PERFORMANCE BASE PAYMENTS !!!

Firstly, I would like to apologise to anyone who I put offside when I stated that I was an expert in the field of leadership. In reflection, it was a poor choice of words. I was merely trying to point out that I work in the area, and have some kind of experience in what leadership means, and the impact it has. But I take onboard the feedback that it may have come across as me trying to 'show off my intellectual muscle'. It was certainly not my intention.

Some have asked what I think needs to happen at Carlton. The answer is, in specific terms, I don't know. I am not close enough to the Club to know what the real issues are, and therefore, it is not possible to come up with specific suggestions. What I will say is that from an outsiders perspective, from someone who watches the events and unfolding issues qt Carlton very closely, it seems clear to me that SOMETHING has to change. My post was trying to demonstrate 2 things: that leadership and culture are vital to the overall success of a football club; and that there appears to be cultural and leadership issues at Carlton. My post was an attempt at observation, rather than specific judgement as to why.

I think that Kernahan, Swann, Icke, Ratten, Judd et al need to have a very clear, very firm set of values upon which they want the Club to operate, and adhere to them completely. That means it doesn't matter if it is Cloke / Betts / Garlett who step out of line, or Fevola / Judd / Gibbs. Clearly that hasn't happened. I know that there has been a leadership program in place at Carlton (it was a group associated with one of the tertiary institutions, not Leading Teams), it seems to me there is still some work to be done. As has been mentioned many times, look at the results that Geelong had with Steve Johnston.

As for Fevola, once again, we are having a 30 page thread on what to do with him, on whether he needs to be 'punished'. Once again, there are those saying that nothing should be done, he didn't do anything wrong. Perhaps if something had been done last time, or the time before, this time wouldn't have occured, and we wouldn't be having the current discussion. If he is not 'punished' now, what incentive will there be for him to change? And what then goes on in the minds of the other players, especially the younger ones, who a. didn't get away with missing a training session, but Fevola gets away with something arguably much more significant, and b. look at him and say, well if he can do that, so can I.

Whether we should trade him, or suspend him, is a tricky question. Will he change after this episode? Maybe. Maybe not. Do we take the risk? Do we trade him while he still has currency, or keep him and hope he sorts himself out. What if we do keep him, and in 2011, when we are a serious contender, he goes off the rails, once and for all? We lose him for nothing, and derail a Premiership tilt. These are difficult questions. Whatever happens, IMHO, a very strong statement needs to be made. Trade him. Suspend him for 6 weeks. Something. He needs to be made responsible for his actions, and know that if he steps away from the core values of the football club, that he will pay the price. As any other player will. To date, with all his misdemeaners, he has yet to pay a significant price.

I think it is also vitally important to the Club that this happens. It sets the tone of the values that you are trying to build, and the culture you are trying to create. Geelong did it, they have won 2 flags in 3 years. St Kilda are doing it, they are on the cusp. Brisbane certainly did it, they won 3 flags (and yes, Voss et al steppe out of line, but it was a one off. And I would bet my last dollar that internally, they copped it big time).

And if it is true that Fevola hit a fellow player, then that is very serious. Again, without knowing full details, you would have to think very seriously about trading him.

To answer the question...could we ever be like Geelong? My answer is, IF we sort out leadership and culture, and IF we make sure that we have the right coaches in place, and our recruiting is right, and IF we have the right development processes, then yes, I think we can. I think we have enough core A grade material there now, that if the B and C graders are developed in the right way, and if the game plan is sound (which I don't think is quite there yet), then we can get there. But all those things need to happen. My personal opinion is that no matter how good the cattle on the field, if we don't get the culture right, the rest will ultimately fail. That's just my view.

_________________
Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

I read it and agreed with almost everything!

The "ifs" are where it's at. Frameworks and consequences (good and bad that get followed through).

Some tough decisions ahead.

_________________
"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

If you were looking for a role model for being a succesful club, Geelong would probably be a good
starting point.

To digress slightly, yeah we were fortunate enough to beat them. Can't remember the last time
we beat the eventual premiers during the season.

_________________
The problem with Socialism is, you eventually run out of other people's money.

We did beat 3 out of the top 4 this year only missing on the Aints.

Not like that filthy mob who only beat 1 - The dogs - and only by a point

_________________
Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

To quote Neil Young...
'You spout ideas from books that you've read...
don't you care about this guy' head...'
(the old homestead' - Hawks and Doves)
We were far worse as a club when we had the most success..
I happen to believe we are progressing nicely without turning in to some kind of android brained super army.
The Swans are often touted as being superior in these areas...and they suspended Hall 'indefinately'...yep...what was that...2...3 weeks?
The dogs are beloved by most and they are very close to winning a flag...who are they taking on next year?
Geez.....sorry for the grump..but you mentioned Fev being egocentric..then you post these doctrines instead of posts..and
well..I may as well apologise now for offending you or anyone else with this response.

_________________
That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

Love your work Siegfried, there's a lot that many here can learn from you on this topic (even if they're too slack to read it)

On the field, it's been said ad nauseum for the past three years, that we need to prepare for being Fev-less whether through peaceful retirement of something more violent. Geelong won a flag yesterday with Mooney and Hawkins as the key targets, each netting a couple. Hardly earth-shattering. It comes back to Wallet's 'downhill skiers' quip, which sadly was proven to be correct. This Geelong team (and the Saints also) don't expect someone else to do the work for them, they hunt in packs and work for each other, and have total 100% faith that the bloke next to them is giving their all.

A perfect example is Max Rooke, one of the more underrated players going around. Time and time again yesterday I saw him block Saints players (sometimes more than one) to allow his teammates safe passage through the corridor. Take a look at their backline, the way they all converge when they're under threat and work together to get the ball out of danger. Compare this to some of our efforts, and the saddest thing is that the weakest efforts often come from our more experienced players. Say what you want about Milburn, you can't deny he bleeds for his teammates.

Of course this sort of bond comes through time together and experience, but when it's the older guys leaving it to the kids (and Judd/Fev) to figure it out for themselves you have to wonder if this sort of teamwork is something we'll eveer see.

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

You serious? It's just the same old "dump Fev", "his leadership sux", "he's no good for the youngsters" but with longer paragraphs and sentences and some self promotion for good measure.

I for one couldn't give a stuff about what he did because facts are, he has never really broken the law, at least not like some others such as the woman and taxi driver bashers of the AFL. He is an easy target for the media. Those tools on C9 like Lyon and Brayshaw have used him and abused him and taken advantage of his good will and trusting nature and if he's guilty of anything at all it's not giving C9 the ass years ago. He is a very naive person the old Fev, the penny dropped for him onfield for him this year, hopefully it's dropped for him off field as well.

Does anyone remember the shite Wayne Carey got up to? Didn't stop North from winning two premierships.

_________________
You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!