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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:02 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I know we don't like comparing ourselves to other clubs, or 'copying' them, but it's hard to argue with facts. Geelong are the benchmark.

We have great expectations for our group, but can we realistically say that they could one day compare to the team we saw out there today? What would it take for us to reach this sort of level, on-field and off?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:09 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Stronger leadership off the field will make the difference!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:43 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Correct. Leadership and culture, look what Geelong created, by being ruthless in their expectations.

I put a post about leadership in the thread about Fevola. What was most interesting is that when someone who is an expert in a field writes something about a topic being debated, only one person actually referred to it. Maybe many of the supporters here don't actually realise what it takes to win a Flag. Culture and leadership are not negotiable these days.

For what it's worth, this is the post I wrote in the other thread...

Quote:
I had avoided reading this thread, because I knew that it would be a slanging match between the critics and the apologists. But I finally succumbed, after reading Sheahan's article in Friday's paper. I haven't read the whole thread, just bits and pieces, but here's my take.

I work in the field of leadership. It is my job to go into an organisation, and through a series of processes, identify where there are leadership issues, and work out a strategy to address them. I then facilitate the implementation of that strategy. Part of this process is to understand what impact the leadership issues have on the organisation, and ultimately the performance of the organisation. Without wanting to pump up my own tires, I would consider myself to be somewhat of an expert in the field.

All the research, and my own experience, says that the impact of leadership on the performance of an organisation at all levels is massive. The more cut-throat the industry, the harder it is to succeed in an industry, the more significant is the impact of leadership on the organisation. I think we would all agree that football is a cut-throat industry in which it is VERY difficult to have the ultimate success. On a completely level playing field, you will succeed once every 16 years. That will soon become once every 18 years.

But we all know that AFL is not a level playing field. What that means is that a club which does not operate as well as another club, will decrease its chances of success. So once every 16 or 18 years, becomes once every 20 years, or 25 years, or 30 years... Case in point, Richmond. And St Kilda.

Of course, there are a myriad of aspects involved in ‘operating’. Coaching, recruiting, membership, sponsorship, image, culture, climate, administration...they are all aspects that must be got right. It is no coincidence that Geelong finally came good (and look how good) under the stewardship of Costa and Cook. In fact, look at all Premiership clubs, and see how strong and solid they were in all areas.

Increasingly, clubs and other organisations are starting to understand the role of leadership. Geelong and Sydney started the ball rolling. Sydney has been recognised for a number of years as having the strongest leadership. It won them a flag with a team that most considered wasn’t Premiership standard. Geelong sat down after ’06 and had a full review, brought in the leadership consultancy, Leading Teams (which work/ed for a number of teams, each of which improved under their programs), and look at the result. Part of that involved suspending Steve Johnson for 6 weeks. Again, look at the result.

To quote from Hay Group, an international leadership consultancy...


Quote:
Your leadership directly affects the way people feel about working for you. You create what we call a ‘climate’. This climate affects the amount of effort people in your organisation contribute. And the more they contribute, the more successful your organisation will be.

Our research shows that leadership accounts for an average of 70% of the variance in climate. A positive climate will increase important bottom line performance measures by up to 30%. So the more you improve their environment, the higher the performance of your team will be.

Six things that will make your people give their best:

1. Clarity – they are clear about where the organisation is going and what their contribution is
2. Standards – There is continual emphasis on improvement and excellence
3. Flexibility – There are no unnecessary rules and procedures and good ideas are acted upon
4. Responsibility – The are empowered to get on with their job and held accountable for it
5. Rewards – They receive appropriate recognition for their level of contribution
6. Team Commitment – There is pride and trust in the organisation



http://www.haygroup.com/tl/Downloads/Leadership_booklet.pdf

The leadership issues of concern at Carlton are Fevola, and the Club itself.

Brendan Fevola is a leader at Carlton. He is in the leadership group, and even if he wasn’t, he is looked up to by the younger players. Fevola’s behaviour is problematic on a number of fronts.

Firstly, it is symptomatic of his ego-centric nature. Now, many people and many footballers are ego-centric, but most somehow manage to put it aside on game day for the good of the team. Fevola clearly struggles with this. The very issue that causes him to have brain fades, spit the dummy or simply not put in 100% on the field is the same that leads him to go out on the drink and make a fool of himself, even when he has admitted that he shouldn’t drink, knows he shouldn’t drink and knows that the Club and those around him don’t want to drink. In leadership, it is referred to as being emotionally unintelligent. It is the essence of ego-centrism - it is all about me, and I am not going to think about how my behaviour will affect those around me (and that can be a conscious or unconscious thought process). If Fevola was to address this trait, to try to become less ego-centric, to consider, and want to consider, how his behaviour impacts on those around him, on those who rely on him, not only would he likely stop drinking, he would almost certainly be a more consistent, and better, player.

Secondly, what is the impact of his behaviour on those around him? On-field and off-field. How does it impact on sponsorship? On the image of the Club? How does it impact on the young players around him? Do they look at his behaviour and say, “well, it’s ok to go out on the drink like that...it’s ok to not chase when things aren’t going well”? Young adults are very impressionable, and Carlton has a list full of young adults.

Thirdly, what about the leadership coming from the Club? Last time Fevola got into trouble, the Club said that the next indiscretion would result him being sacked. Clearly that hasn’t happened (and there may be contractual reasons for that). But a $10,000 fine is barely a slap on the wrist. As has been pointed out, Jason Gram misses a physio session, and got suspended for a week. St Kilda plays in a Grand Final tomorrow. Steve Johnson was suspended for 6 weeks. Geelong played in the next 3 Grand Finals. Tough leadership works. Demanding the absolute best in terms of effort, behaviour, attitude, performance and leadership brings results. It brings down your odds from 1 in 16, to 1 in 12, or 10... But only if it is spot on.

There have been plenty of whispers about a poor culture developing at Carlton. I do not know if it exists or not. Certainly, there have been issues with Fevola, Stevens, Scotland, Betts, Garlett and Cloke. That’s part of the leadership group, and some of the young kids. Not a great sign. That the leadership group, and I include Judd in this assessment, did not take Fevola by the collar on Monday night and physically take him home is a worry (and again, I wasn’t there, so I am only going on reports. But what do you think Jonathan Brown or Brett Kirk would have done if it was Travis Johnston or Barry Hall? Sydney ‘sacked’ Hall for his behaviour).

Look at other clubs over the years which have had leadership or cultural issues, and the lack of success which accompanied it. Look at the successful clubs, and how strong their leadership is. It is leadership that comes from players, from coaches, from administration and from boards. Clubs don’t win Premierships without outstanding leadership at all levels of the organisation. It simply doesn’t happen anymore. We all know that if you are off your peak by ½ %, it costs you.

From an outside observer with a strong and passionate interest in Carlton Football Club, and who follows it as closely as he can, there appears to be some leadership issues at the Club. Fevola has been allowed to get away with his antics over and over, without significant punishment. Looking from the outside, as a supporter whose wants nothing less than a Premiership, there appears to be issues with Fevola, with others in the playing group, and with the administration and coaching department, whose job it is to implement the requisite leadership and which don’t appear to be doing so. The impact that this has on the Club, its image, the playing list and ultimately performance on the field, cannot be understated.

Whether that means discipline, trade or sacking (and surely you would trade, not sack) I don’t know. But it certainly means more than a $10,000 fine and throwing up your hands and saying ‘what more can we do”, and another apology from the player who says yet again that he must stop drinking. Strong leadership starts at the top, and filters down. Poor leadership from the top, infects the whole organisation. The fish rots at the head. It is time for Carlton Football Club to stamp its leadership in no uncertain terms.


I repeat - Culture and leadership are not negotiable these days.

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Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:46 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Very few would read a post that long, let alone respond.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:48 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:22 pm
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Siegfried wrote:
Correct. Leadership and culture, look what Geelong created, by being ruthless in their expectations.

I put a post about leadership in the thread about Fevola. What was most interesting is that when someone who is an expert in a field writes something about a topic being debated, only one person actually referred to it. Maybe many of the supporters here don't actually realise what it takes to win a Flag. Culture and leadership are not negotiable these days.

For what it's worth, this is the post I wrote in the other thread...

Quote:
I had avoided reading this thread, because I knew that it would be a slanging match between the critics and the apologists. But I finally succumbed, after reading Sheahan's article in Friday's paper. I haven't read the whole thread, just bits and pieces, but here's my take.

I work in the field of leadership. It is my job to go into an organisation, and through a series of processes, identify where there are leadership issues, and work out a strategy to address them. I then facilitate the implementation of that strategy. Part of this process is to understand what impact the leadership issues have on the organisation, and ultimately the performance of the organisation. Without wanting to pump up my own tires, I would consider myself to be somewhat of an expert in the field.

All the research, and my own experience, says that the impact of leadership on the performance of an organisation at all levels is massive. The more cut-throat the industry, the harder it is to succeed in an industry, the more significant is the impact of leadership on the organisation. I think we would all agree that football is a cut-throat industry in which it is VERY difficult to have the ultimate success. On a completely level playing field, you will succeed once every 16 years. That will soon become once every 18 years.

But we all know that AFL is not a level playing field. What that means is that a club which does not operate as well as another club, will decrease its chances of success. So once every 16 or 18 years, becomes once every 20 years, or 25 years, or 30 years... Case in point, Richmond. And St Kilda.

Of course, there are a myriad of aspects involved in ‘operating’. Coaching, recruiting, membership, sponsorship, image, culture, climate, administration...they are all aspects that must be got right. It is no coincidence that Geelong finally came good (and look how good) under the stewardship of Costa and Cook. In fact, look at all Premiership clubs, and see how strong and solid they were in all areas.

Increasingly, clubs and other organisations are starting to understand the role of leadership. Geelong and Sydney started the ball rolling. Sydney has been recognised for a number of years as having the strongest leadership. It won them a flag with a team that most considered wasn’t Premiership standard. Geelong sat down after ’06 and had a full review, brought in the leadership consultancy, Leading Teams (which work/ed for a number of teams, each of which improved under their programs), and look at the result. Part of that involved suspending Steve Johnson for 6 weeks. Again, look at the result.

To quote from Hay Group, an international leadership consultancy...


Quote:
Your leadership directly affects the way people feel about working for you. You create what we call a ‘climate’. This climate affects the amount of effort people in your organisation contribute. And the more they contribute, the more successful your organisation will be.

Our research shows that leadership accounts for an average of 70% of the variance in climate. A positive climate will increase important bottom line performance measures by up to 30%. So the more you improve their environment, the higher the performance of your team will be.

Six things that will make your people give their best:

1. Clarity – they are clear about where the organisation is going and what their contribution is
2. Standards – There is continual emphasis on improvement and excellence
3. Flexibility – There are no unnecessary rules and procedures and good ideas are acted upon
4. Responsibility – The are empowered to get on with their job and held accountable for it
5. Rewards – They receive appropriate recognition for their level of contribution
6. Team Commitment – There is pride and trust in the organisation



http://www.haygroup.com/tl/Downloads/Leadership_booklet.pdf

The leadership issues of concern at Carlton are Fevola, and the Club itself.

Brendan Fevola is a leader at Carlton. He is in the leadership group, and even if he wasn’t, he is looked up to by the younger players. Fevola’s behaviour is problematic on a number of fronts.

Firstly, it is symptomatic of his ego-centric nature. Now, many people and many footballers are ego-centric, but most somehow manage to put it aside on game day for the good of the team. Fevola clearly struggles with this. The very issue that causes him to have brain fades, spit the dummy or simply not put in 100% on the field is the same that leads him to go out on the drink and make a fool of himself, even when he has admitted that he shouldn’t drink, knows he shouldn’t drink and knows that the Club and those around him don’t want to drink. In leadership, it is referred to as being emotionally unintelligent. It is the essence of ego-centrism - it is all about me, and I am not going to think about how my behaviour will affect those around me (and that can be a conscious or unconscious thought process). If Fevola was to address this trait, to try to become less ego-centric, to consider, and want to consider, how his behaviour impacts on those around him, on those who rely on him, not only would he likely stop drinking, he would almost certainly be a more consistent, and better, player.

Secondly, what is the impact of his behaviour on those around him? On-field and off-field. How does it impact on sponsorship? On the image of the Club? How does it impact on the young players around him? Do they look at his behaviour and say, “well, it’s ok to go out on the drink like that...it’s ok to not chase when things aren’t going well”? Young adults are very impressionable, and Carlton has a list full of young adults.

Thirdly, what about the leadership coming from the Club? Last time Fevola got into trouble, the Club said that the next indiscretion would result him being sacked. Clearly that hasn’t happened (and there may be contractual reasons for that). But a $10,000 fine is barely a slap on the wrist. As has been pointed out, Jason Gram misses a physio session, and got suspended for a week. St Kilda plays in a Grand Final tomorrow. Steve Johnson was suspended for 6 weeks. Geelong played in the next 3 Grand Finals. Tough leadership works. Demanding the absolute best in terms of effort, behaviour, attitude, performance and leadership brings results. It brings down your odds from 1 in 16, to 1 in 12, or 10... But only if it is spot on.

There have been plenty of whispers about a poor culture developing at Carlton. I do not know if it exists or not. Certainly, there have been issues with Fevola, Stevens, Scotland, Betts, Garlett and Cloke. That’s part of the leadership group, and some of the young kids. Not a great sign. That the leadership group, and I include Judd in this assessment, did not take Fevola by the collar on Monday night and physically take him home is a worry (and again, I wasn’t there, so I am only going on reports. But what do you think Jonathan Brown or Brett Kirk would have done if it was Travis Johnston or Barry Hall? Sydney ‘sacked’ Hall for his behaviour).

Look at other clubs over the years which have had leadership or cultural issues, and the lack of success which accompanied it. Look at the successful clubs, and how strong their leadership is. It is leadership that comes from players, from coaches, from administration and from boards. Clubs don’t win Premierships without outstanding leadership at all levels of the organisation. It simply doesn’t happen anymore. We all know that if you are off your peak by ½ %, it costs you.

From an outside observer with a strong and passionate interest in Carlton Football Club, and who follows it as closely as he can, there appears to be some leadership issues at the Club. Fevola has been allowed to get away with his antics over and over, without significant punishment. Looking from the outside, as a supporter whose wants nothing less than a Premiership, there appears to be issues with Fevola, with others in the playing group, and with the administration and coaching department, whose job it is to implement the requisite leadership and which don’t appear to be doing so. The impact that this has on the Club, its image, the playing list and ultimately performance on the field, cannot be understated.

Whether that means discipline, trade or sacking (and surely you would trade, not sack) I don’t know. But it certainly means more than a $10,000 fine and throwing up your hands and saying ‘what more can we do”, and another apology from the player who says yet again that he must stop drinking. Strong leadership starts at the top, and filters down. Poor leadership from the top, infects the whole organisation. The fish rots at the head. It is time for Carlton Football Club to stamp its leadership in no uncertain terms.


I repeat - Culture and leadership are not negotiable these days.


Yes I did read that Seigfried and well done.

Get the frameworks right and away you go. This takes courage and discipline. Something that appears to be lacking in our club at the moment.
Time will tell.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:50 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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So if someone is not going to read a post because it is too long, then that doesn't say much for their ability to reason an argument or a position. It is called selective reading. It is following the human trait of only reading / listening to the things that you want to hear, that support your belief, and ignoring anything else. It is the surest way to bring down one's argument.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:57 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I can't speak for anyone else. I normally start reading a post and move on pretty quick. Doubt I've ever read an entire post that length. I could be in the minority though, but the lack of response would indicate otherwise.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:59 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:57 pm
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I read it all SIG and agree wholeheartedly!

Let's hope the board make the correct decision when they meet and do what they're there to do make the hard decisions which will benefit the club.
Great players come and go but the club always comes first...not so the case for the CFC in recent times. :cry:

I'd hate to lose players such as Gibbs , murphy etc.. in coming years b/c of the actions of fev.

If the ultimatum occurred and you're asked to choose Fev or some of our young stars who'd you choose?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:01 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Why would that choice be presented?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:20 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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verbs wrote:
Very few would read a post that long, let alone respond.


I did, it was flowering brilliant.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Fair enough. Good discussion. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:11 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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So after all of the the theory and explanation on leadership, the 64 dollar question is what specific things would Seigfried suggest be done to change Carlton and make it more like Geelong?

For example - Would you sack Fevola?

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Last edited by blueman on Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:12 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Excellent post!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:19 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Top post Siegfried :clap:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:30 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Siegfried wrote:
Correct. Leadership and culture, look what Geelong created, by being ruthless in their expectations.

I put a post about leadership in the thread about Fevola. What was most interesting is that when someone who is an expert in a field writes something about a topic being debated, only one person actually referred to it. Maybe many of the supporters here don't actually realise what it takes to win a Flag. Culture and leadership are not negotiable these days.

For what it's worth, this is the post I wrote in the other thread...

Quote:
I had avoided reading this thread, because I knew that it would be a slanging match between the critics and the apologists. But I finally succumbed, after reading Sheahan's article in Friday's paper. I haven't read the whole thread, just bits and pieces, but here's my take.

I work in the field of leadership. It is my job to go into an organisation, and through a series of processes, identify where there are leadership issues, and work out a strategy to address them. I then facilitate the implementation of that strategy. Part of this process is to understand what impact the leadership issues have on the organisation, and ultimately the performance of the organisation. Without wanting to pump up my own tires, I would consider myself to be somewhat of an expert in the field.

All the research, and my own experience, says that the impact of leadership on the performance of an organisation at all levels is massive. The more cut-throat the industry, the harder it is to succeed in an industry, the more significant is the impact of leadership on the organisation. I think we would all agree that football is a cut-throat industry in which it is VERY difficult to have the ultimate success. On a completely level playing field, you will succeed once every 16 years. That will soon become once every 18 years.

But we all know that AFL is not a level playing field. What that means is that a club which does not operate as well as another club, will decrease its chances of success. So once every 16 or 18 years, becomes once every 20 years, or 25 years, or 30 years... Case in point, Richmond. And St Kilda.

Of course, there are a myriad of aspects involved in ‘operating’. Coaching, recruiting, membership, sponsorship, image, culture, climate, administration...they are all aspects that must be got right. It is no coincidence that Geelong finally came good (and look how good) under the stewardship of Costa and Cook. In fact, look at all Premiership clubs, and see how strong and solid they were in all areas.

Increasingly, clubs and other organisations are starting to understand the role of leadership. Geelong and Sydney started the ball rolling. Sydney has been recognised for a number of years as having the strongest leadership. It won them a flag with a team that most considered wasn’t Premiership standard. Geelong sat down after ’06 and had a full review, brought in the leadership consultancy, Leading Teams (which work/ed for a number of teams, each of which improved under their programs), and look at the result. Part of that involved suspending Steve Johnson for 6 weeks. Again, look at the result.

To quote from Hay Group, an international leadership consultancy...


Quote:
Your leadership directly affects the way people feel about working for you. You create what we call a ‘climate’. This climate affects the amount of effort people in your organisation contribute. And the more they contribute, the more successful your organisation will be.

Our research shows that leadership accounts for an average of 70% of the variance in climate. A positive climate will increase important bottom line performance measures by up to 30%. So the more you improve their environment, the higher the performance of your team will be.

Six things that will make your people give their best:

1. Clarity – they are clear about where the organisation is going and what their contribution is
2. Standards – There is continual emphasis on improvement and excellence
3. Flexibility – There are no unnecessary rules and procedures and good ideas are acted upon
4. Responsibility – The are empowered to get on with their job and held accountable for it
5. Rewards – They receive appropriate recognition for their level of contribution
6. Team Commitment – There is pride and trust in the organisation



http://www.haygroup.com/tl/Downloads/Leadership_booklet.pdf

The leadership issues of concern at Carlton are Fevola, and the Club itself.

Brendan Fevola is a leader at Carlton. He is in the leadership group, and even if he wasn’t, he is looked up to by the younger players. Fevola’s behaviour is problematic on a number of fronts.

Firstly, it is symptomatic of his ego-centric nature. Now, many people and many footballers are ego-centric, but most somehow manage to put it aside on game day for the good of the team. Fevola clearly struggles with this. The very issue that causes him to have brain fades, spit the dummy or simply not put in 100% on the field is the same that leads him to go out on the drink and make a fool of himself, even when he has admitted that he shouldn’t drink, knows he shouldn’t drink and knows that the Club and those around him don’t want to drink. In leadership, it is referred to as being emotionally unintelligent. It is the essence of ego-centrism - it is all about me, and I am not going to think about how my behaviour will affect those around me (and that can be a conscious or unconscious thought process). If Fevola was to address this trait, to try to become less ego-centric, to consider, and want to consider, how his behaviour impacts on those around him, on those who rely on him, not only would he likely stop drinking, he would almost certainly be a more consistent, and better, player.

Secondly, what is the impact of his behaviour on those around him? On-field and off-field. How does it impact on sponsorship? On the image of the Club? How does it impact on the young players around him? Do they look at his behaviour and say, “well, it’s ok to go out on the drink like that...it’s ok to not chase when things aren’t going well”? Young adults are very impressionable, and Carlton has a list full of young adults.

Thirdly, what about the leadership coming from the Club? Last time Fevola got into trouble, the Club said that the next indiscretion would result him being sacked. Clearly that hasn’t happened (and there may be contractual reasons for that). But a $10,000 fine is barely a slap on the wrist. As has been pointed out, Jason Gram misses a physio session, and got suspended for a week. St Kilda plays in a Grand Final tomorrow. Steve Johnson was suspended for 6 weeks. Geelong played in the next 3 Grand Finals. Tough leadership works. Demanding the absolute best in terms of effort, behaviour, attitude, performance and leadership brings results. It brings down your odds from 1 in 16, to 1 in 12, or 10... But only if it is spot on.

There have been plenty of whispers about a poor culture developing at Carlton. I do not know if it exists or not. Certainly, there have been issues with Fevola, Stevens, Scotland, Betts, Garlett and Cloke. That’s part of the leadership group, and some of the young kids. Not a great sign. That the leadership group, and I include Judd in this assessment, did not take Fevola by the collar on Monday night and physically take him home is a worry (and again, I wasn’t there, so I am only going on reports. But what do you think Jonathan Brown or Brett Kirk would have done if it was Travis Johnston or Barry Hall? Sydney ‘sacked’ Hall for his behaviour).

Look at other clubs over the years which have had leadership or cultural issues, and the lack of success which accompanied it. Look at the successful clubs, and how strong their leadership is. It is leadership that comes from players, from coaches, from administration and from boards. Clubs don’t win Premierships without outstanding leadership at all levels of the organisation. It simply doesn’t happen anymore. We all know that if you are off your peak by ½ %, it costs you.

From an outside observer with a strong and passionate interest in Carlton Football Club, and who follows it as closely as he can, there appears to be some leadership issues at the Club. Fevola has been allowed to get away with his antics over and over, without significant punishment. Looking from the outside, as a supporter whose wants nothing less than a Premiership, there appears to be issues with Fevola, with others in the playing group, and with the administration and coaching department, whose job it is to implement the requisite leadership and which don’t appear to be doing so. The impact that this has on the Club, its image, the playing list and ultimately performance on the field, cannot be understated.

Whether that means discipline, trade or sacking (and surely you would trade, not sack) I don’t know. But it certainly means more than a $10,000 fine and throwing up your hands and saying ‘what more can we do”, and another apology from the player who says yet again that he must stop drinking. Strong leadership starts at the top, and filters down. Poor leadership from the top, infects the whole organisation. The fish rots at the head. It is time for Carlton Football Club to stamp its leadership in no uncertain terms.


I repeat - Culture and leadership are not negotiable these days.


I read it Siggy.It was hard work wading through that.Phew!!!!!!!
Its obvious you are one hell of a smart cookie.
Not trying to be a smartie Siggy.but who the hell are you pointing the finger at.
Fevola,Sticks,Swann,Judd.Ya gotta name names or its just an ameless swipe.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:55 pm
Posts: 2952
Location: Balwyn
Interesting statement re Michael Hurley to assembled Indian media by Brumby:
Quote:
"He's a decent guy, he just got drunk".
So if Brumby says you're a decent guy you can sink the slipper, no probs?
Wonder if the Indian media will buy that.
But, I don't know what the lead up was to the situation.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:53 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:24 am
Posts: 336
Talent and experience on the field are the ultimated decider when winning Premierships.

Today Geelong had 10 players who will be 29 or older next year.

That means they have been in the system for over 10 years each.

We are only just starting the process.

Fevola may or may not be there.

Depends on when our Window is considered open.

Drafting, trading and some luck are all part of it.

The harder you work the luckier you get.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:16 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am
Posts: 2662
Siegfried wrote:
So if someone is not going to read a post because it is too long, then that doesn't say much for their ability to reason an argument or a position. It is called selective reading. It is following the human trait of only reading / listening to the things that you want to hear, that support your belief, and ignoring anything else. It is the surest way to bring down one's argument.


I didn't respond because you went to lengths to tell people what an expert you are. I didn't know you wanted a discussion on the body of your message, just thought that you wanted to show off your intellectual muscle. But anyways, it was a fine read even if i didn't find it particularly revolutionary ...

... anyways for someone who considers themselves an expert in the field (and i assume you have come to this conclusion because some others concur with this assumption), are you able to tell us how your work with leadership with AFL clubs has lead to an increase in cohesion and performance? And how practically you would apply this to the Carlton environment? I think that would lead to some intersting reading.

I'd also be keen to hear your thoughts on Ben Cousins leadership? He is attributed by many as being the 'behind the scenes' leader in the years that they made it to the grand final, but coupled with that his life outside of football was anything but vanilla.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:31 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm
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Donstuie wrote:
I know we don't like comparing ourselves to other clubs, or 'copying' them, but it's hard to argue with facts. Geelong are the benchmark.

We have great expectations for our group, but can we realistically say that they could one day compare to the team we saw out there today? What would it take for us to reach this sort of level, on-field and off?

Hmmmm....well,I think,looking at Geelong...it's important when we hit that grandfinal stand off line for the anthem...to look as much as possible like a motley crew of pirates.
We will need sauce to grow his hair of course....maybe an eye patch for Fev,and a parrot on shoulder for Juddy.
I like their look as a team..unsuspecting..then in for the kill. :thumbsup:
ps..sorry this post isn't longer..but I didn't drink any beer today. :smile:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:33 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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verbs wrote:
Very few would read a post that long, let alone respond.


You should read it.... You'll learn something.

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