I hate it when people refer to a footabll club as a 'brand'. A footy club is not some commerical product for sale to a guiless consumer. A footy club is not a flash car, a piece of trendy clothing or a pair of overpriced runners.

When I hear marketing terms like "brand' or 'positioning' or whatever the newest catch phrase is in relation to a footy club, it just confirms to me that the powers that be have no clue as to what a footy club is.

A footy club is made up of people witth all thier flaws, real breathing, thinking ( O.K thats agruable) people, not widgets, not gidgets or targets on a graph. People all of whom have an emotional attachment to the club, they have invested emotion, sometimes irrationally, but always genuine.

You see, it doesn't matter what another club offers in extra in membership, sorry value add, hell they can cut thier price, there is no way I would swap 'brands' as I would a car.
EVER.

People just like you and me will be still supporting the club long after the 'Branding' gurus have taken thier bonus's have departed for the next marketing campaign.

In short I support a football club, not a flowering 'brand'

Cheers
BM

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

yes yes yes yes yes yes.

Thanks BM.

'The Brand'. Can't stand it.

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Congratulations CK95

Awesome post!!

That's the best thing you've given me since you gave me a sausage at the sausage sizzle at Princes Park about 6 years ago!!!

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

we support a footy club that operates in a professional environment - with that comes the responsbilities of being a professional club.

Like it or not, the CFC is also a brand nowadays that is utilised by sponsors to promote their products via association. Our club derives a significant amount of income from its branding. Just compare the level of sponsorship nowadays with that from the early 80s. It doesnt mean that we have to abandon the principles of what makes a footy club great (the people, history, emotional ties) however, it does mean that we have to keep in mind the responsibilities that come along with being a professional club

We stopped being purely just a footy club years ago when things started becoming professional - ie players started being paid professional salaries, match scheduling was changed to appeal to sponsors and television rights holders etc

You know 4th, you could take away the sponsors, the coporates, the compromised draws and all the other 'add ons' and reduce footy to its purest form, played on a Saturday afternoon by mainly local boofheads and I would still be just as passionate about the club as I am now, probably more so, and I suspect many others would be the same.

I accept that footy has 'modernised' and I enjoy the specticle that footy is, but when sponsors and corporates start to dictate what happens within a club, often to the detriment of lifelong suporters, I think some of our soul gets lost.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

great post BM and perfectly put...

...you have demonstrated how simple the 'impression' of the Carlton footy club is too you.

that impression, is the brand for you. I know you don't like the bullshit that goes with the word brand.......however, a CFC brand exists for you.

the reality is carlton lives in a wordl where it cannot simply rely on the saturday afternoon meat tray raffle or BBq. The 'essence' of the CFC shouldnt change, but our standards and positioning needs to in order to compete and be successful again.

the club needs supporters like us all in order to keep the 'essence' alive while it evolves - as it needs to.

Love the heartfelt, and having met Bluemark, undoubtedly sincere passion that his post involves and evokes.

The only snag is that he and us are not what the brand is about. It's about the impression young kids have of our club in the primary school playground when they're deciding which club to follow, through to our club's very survival through the (like it or not) dependency on corporate sponsorship.

Let's not forget what we've all just been through, both on and off the field. The reality is that our brand was trash, because it wasn't sufficiently valued.

Even if we stripped our club back to a suburban outfit, if we were not winning on the field, and we had an obnoxious bunch of amateurs running the show, it would soon collapse and be no more because future supporters and local businesses wouldn't want any association.

It's great to take romantic shots at terms like 'brand', and I avoid clichés like the plague, but the reality is if we have a bad brand, we'll soon have no club, no matter what the level of competition we're in.

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

You support a footy club Mark.
Sponsors support a brand. Until the day comes that you can support a $30,000,000.00 organisation off your own bat, your pet "hates" are just a good conversation piece.
They dont actually reflect the functionality of running a footy club.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I agree on the first part - however thats just the way it is. There is no chance of the club turning its back on sponsors and other add ons, or the players to go back to playing for free/nominal match payments etc. The only option is to go support a lower level of footy.

Modernising isnt necessarily bad though - there have been benefits such as improved training facilities and medical care.

On sponsors - provided they dont interfere directly with the running of the club (ie team selections etc), I've no issue with them being associated with the club. The issue of the clubs branding however is quite important.

Like it or not, sportspeople are often seen as role models for kids as they are in the public eye and many adults (supporters) hold them in high esteem (something that the kids pick up on). Ignore the corporates for a moment and ask yourself this - do you really think its desirable for kids to have drunken yobbos as role models? For the sponsors it is no different - do they really want their products associated with drunken yobbos? It is in this area, that I've no issue with the corporates having a say - standards are important and having put significant financial investment into sponsorships, they are more likely to keep those standards high. Not saying that we as individuals dont have standards, but our investment in the club tends to be more emotional which can often clouds reasoning

As for the lifelong supporters comment - most people posting on this board would be lifelong supporters of the club. The only difference would be that some posters would have been lifelong supporters for longer due to being slightly older. We've all grown up in different eras and had different life experiences - therefore our definition as to what constitutes the soul of the club will be different.

For mine whilst footy is a major part of the club, it's soul is also a reflection of how it carries itself - the swagger, the self belief and respect it has for itself and that it garners from others.

Its why I hatedthe way collo/pagan went on for years how poor we were/crap the list was to anyone that listened/wanted a quote
Its also why I see Fev's continual stuff ups as damaging to the club

You can still get that kind of footy down at your local oval, BM. Just take a thermus and some sangas and you'll see that raw kind of footy you like. I like it too, but I imagine you also like going along to the MCG in front of 90,000 others and watch pure athletes with increbible skill and endurance play the most physical and skillful game on earth.

The problem is, you wouldn't get that kind of game without corporates, sponsorship and 'Brands'. These athletes won't play for peanuts anymore given it's a full time career.

So if you want raw footy, choose local.

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end of message

I'm with you in spirit, BM.... but that kind of Utopian dream will give you an ulcer.

Rest easy knowing that sponsors only weigh in when issues reach a critical mass and their profits start to dwindle - and smart sponsors (like Cronulla Sharks sponsor, PKF Chartered Acountants after the Greg Bird 'incident') will want to work with the club to turn bad news into good.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

..B.M, can see where yer coming from, i think yer just havin' some trouble with the terminology.. ..think of other clubs, such as pies or bummers, and you'll instantly have an impression of them that's been formed by you.. ..that impression can be called many things, 'Brand' being one term among many is all..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Beautifully put BM. I've been banging this drum for years as Jabba loves spewing this one out.

As if 15 year old kids arise each Saturday morning and 'select' a sport to follow as easily as they do a can of drink.

It insults our intelligence.

Fair dinkum, a coffee mug could run the AFL. You have a captive supporter base who follow the game DESPITE anything that Demetriou etc do.

My biggest gripe is how meekly those supporters are marching to the gallows and not saying anything about GC 17 and North Sydney. Wake up - it means an extra 2 years on average to win a bloody flag!

"Crowds up, ratings up" is NOT the measur eof success. Its parcipation rates at juniour footy, iots player retention rates after they turn 19, its levels of new supporters to clubs and the membership number increaeses for each club.

All metrics that Jabba NEVER discusses.

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Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow

To the fan it will always be a football club but like it or not it's become a 'brand' to the corporate world.

The best 'brand' will attract the biggest and best of the corporate world.

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

Another one of BM's commie rantings....

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So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time
A garden to nurture and protect

#DopeThenStash

LB, you've just branded BM

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Many things have been deconstructed by the use of terminology that changes what they once stood for.

People on welfare become clients, families become consumers and football clubs become brands.

The act of deliberately changing the meaning of concepts that we have developed over long periods of time and in many cases held in common as part of our culture opens the way for many long held, deeply cultural and sometimes even sacred rules and boundaries to be challenged and then changed.

The victims of this excercise are usually given scant consideration and the true motives of the beneficiaries of this change are ideally well hidden from public view and scrutiny.

Forget about history and forget about national identity, culture and ‘society’ ... Don’t even think about public policy, national goals or nation-building.

It’s all futile. Just get out of the way and let prices and market forces deliver their own economically rational solution.

Calling a football club a 'Brand' is just another insidious attempt at manipulation - stripping away old understandings and meanings and replacing them with something else - more often than not - something that is diminished..

It doesnt suit economic rationalist thinkers to have cultural or human values getting in the way of making a dollar - and the most effective way of attacking these things is to set about changing our perceptions by fiddling with meanings that we collectively hold..

It might take some time - but if there are millions of dollars at stake - than its an excercise that is worth their effort.

Of course, the fact that there has effectively been a theft of what was once collectivelly owned by the people and formed part of their culture cant get in the way of the progress of a select few..

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My Blue Heaven

Let's get some perspective here.




Since when has reality been a bad thing? Why is someone on welfare suddenly demeaned when described as a client of Centrelink? Saying someone's a dole bludger is an insult, but being called a client merely states the truth: a client is a person or group that uses the professional advice or services of a lawyer, accountant, advertising agency, architect, etc. (thanks to dictionary.com).

Families ARE consumers, as well as being other things, but they buy products, breathe air, drink water, use parks, etc. In other words, they consume stuff. Why is that demeaning?

Football clubs have brands, ie: what they're named. That brand represents customs and values. Why is there a problem with saying organisations have brand values? It's the truth, and it's important.

'Client', 'consumer' and 'brand' have all been used above in their long-held meanings. What has changed is maybe how we perceive their usage. What I can't understand is how anyone can see the words in a negative light.





Why is change necessarily such a bad thing? In relation to our football club, many things have changed over the years. There were raised eyebrows amongst the community when John Worrall was appointed coach of our team early last century. Doubtless there were 'traditionalists' who railed against putting a monogram on the front of our club's guernsey (which, incidentally, is classic branding). Over a century ago our club was concerned about its image and changed the jumper , so why is it suddenly a problem that they continue to do so now?

Concepts are often changed for good reasons, it's just that society generally hates change. We sit in our comfort zones, and when anything disturbs the bubble, we get nervous and resist. Look at what's happening in the USA with the proposal of improving their healthcare system. Barack Obama is being called a Nazi, a communist and everything in between. Nobody outside of the United States would think that universal healthcare is a bad thing, but we're not the ones experiencing the 'terror' of change.




This statement has me bewildered. What part of our club's values have been diminished, and what values have been changed for the worse? It would be fair to say CFC's image has varied constantly over the last 145 years, but I reckon most of them remain: arrogant, successful, cunning, scheming, wealthy (even during the dark days this decade, we were still perceived as a club for the 'silvertails'), culturally diverse and progressive.

It's too easy to make simplistic and hysterical negative statements about change, and rarely do they stand up to scrutiny. I think our club has worked to improve itself enormously over the last few years, and whether people like it or not, the paranoia about having negative brand value is what drives the betterment.

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

You will be really pissed off when you miss out on Grand Final tickets because some latte sipping theatre going corporate, goes to his or hers annual football match.

'Brand' is a marketing term. It is a manufactured identity, which has an intangible value - But more often than not, it is something that is created from nothing in the mind of a marketer.

It could be an entirely fictitious thing, such as the cartoon characters that have long dominated the packaging and advertising of sugary breakfast cereals aimed at children. But if consumers like it - then it passes as a brand.

I’m not wanting to offend those that are emotionally attached to the long advertising history of Coco the monkey or Sam Toucan - but this fictitious dimension to a brand is actually what makes it such an empty and soulless term.

But nevertheless it is one that is used in a clinical kind of way by business practitioners as a kind of badge that differentiates one sporting club from another.

But sports clubs exert their collective efforts to pursue sporting achievements often displaying the tangible results of those achievements in their trophy cabinets.

However these achievements are only one dimension to a club. The other dimensions are found among the large collection of people all interacting as an organic entity - often developing a culture over time, which creates a rich history for the club.

But when a club for whatever reason loses the organic things that made it a club in the first place - then the term 'Brand' becomes a better description of what it has become.

Sometimes this loss comes about as the result of a process known as corporatisation.

The English Premier League is a fine example of what happens when we travel further down the road of corporatisation of the intangible things that formerly belonged to ordinary people.

It is a fortunate thing that they do have their passionate supporters that enable clear differentiation between 'Brands' but 'Brands' (clubs) in that competition are more like playthings of the very wealthy and less of the organic sporting clubs in the traditional sense.

Yes, the trophy cabinets are still there - but it is less about the collective efforts of a group that creates its own organic culture - and more about the wants and whims of an individual owner that thinks of things in a more unilateral way.

It obviously suits people to make the leap of faith to support a club like that but being part of a club should be more about supporting something representing a collective that shares the passion of the sport it is involved in - not a privatized entity which is actually a corporatised shell of what it once was.

Whilst we obviously cant go back to the days of suburban football and all the tribalism that went hand in hand with being a part of a club that had it's origins in an actual geographical location - and was still very close to those origins as it played each second week on it's home ground, I am aware of what has been lost over time - but I am still thankful that supporting an AFL club today still has a fair degree of what being part of a club should be about.

After the troubles that Carlton went through since 2002 I am also very thankful that I can still go to a family day knowing that I am supporting a standalone club and not just attending a Richard Pratt owned sausage sizzle. No disrespect is intended to Dick Pratt in saying that...

Despite being quite able to bail us out one of the best things that Dick Pratt did was to not take this option to save Carlton - but instead insist that Carlton had to take responsibility for it's financial predicament and work its way out of its problems.


By doing that it meant that we are more of a club and less of a brand.

However the forces that could change this for the worse are about and do have a pervasive influence.

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My Blue Heaven