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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:14 am 
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Ken Hands
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I see all these discussions about trading T-bird now that his currency is so high and we have ample talls in defence. For the life of me what I just cannot understand is why we do not try him forward!

From what I have seen he is a very strong mark and a good kick. And the absolute minimum amount of time he has spent forward has been productive.

If a novice like me could see that why couldn't Lappin :?:

We are crying out for another tall forward and not enough was done this year to uncover one ... Wiggin and Cloke at the start of the year then rehashed for the finals ... GREAT PLAN!

Need to find a gun forward coach ... and a couple of others!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:36 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I don't think Lappin has final say over everything to decide T-Bird plays forward. A bit harsh to blame him for that one. Its unlikely he was going to win that battle when Jamo and Waite were injured for much of the season. Remember Waite started the season in defence and we eventually dropped Cloke and sent Waite forward. That was working well until he hurt his knee. How do we know that wasn't Lappin's materstroke?

Cloke was selected later in the season when O'hAilpin was injured.

Wiggins played in defence when he was recalled :?

I think I need to repeat I'm not a huge fan of Lappin, and if he's replaced by someone better credentialed then so be it, but I'm not sure why he cops so much grief here when we're the 3rd highest scoring side.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:06 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Sorry ryan, but we were third in scoring, what more do you want to see from him?


Sorry Brad............ i only just noticed your question.


I guess i'd like to see some kind of structure or design. I mean, how hard is it to say "Kick it to Fev"?????

Even when we throw another forward down there, be it Setanta, Cloke, Kreuzer, we still just kick to Fev or bomb it to the square and hope for the best. Sorry - but that is NOT good enough and is not and will not win you a premiership.

Moreso, as a Forwards Coach, it's not only your job to create avenues to create goals, it's your job to create a forward line preasure to keep the ball inside the 50.
Fevola has worked on this part of his game and done it well and Betts is probably one of the best in the leauge, but that's about it. I think the ball clears our 50 FAR to easy at times.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:14 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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..crap forward coach, i mean if yer gonna be givin' jobs to the boys, and yer wantin' to repay favours for givin' a player a push.. ..then why chase skinny, when fat woulda been a better forward coach.. ..he's the one with the footy brain, and he's also the one that could work with fev and direct traffic/structure in the 50 [front and back]..

..ppl askin' for evidence need only watch our games.. ..we've got bugger all team work up forward.. ..it's fev, edwardo/errol crumbin' goals left right and center [looks good, but more net result from unpredictability/chance vs actual tactics], and odd cameo's from random carlton player Key Forward #2 that rotates every few weeks.. ..the very fact that nothing changed much from last year [fev 99, betts 25? and now fev 86, betts 37].. .... ..i mean betts is still our second key forward..!!.. ..if anything, we've gone backwards this year with Murphos being 3rd on our goal kicking.. ..great for murphos individually, shizen for carlton forward set up..

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:17 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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It's not so much the 'jobs for the boys' that I mind...Carlton nepotism is fine if they're the right people for the job. Lappin and Teague took shortcuts and are learning on the job. I would be happy if the club sounded out Rohan Welsh as forwards coach...proven in development...has had own team over many years...knows forward structures...knows Carlton...smart man.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:19 pm 
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John Nicholls

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ryan2000 wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Sorry ryan, but we were third in scoring, what more do you want to see from him?


Sorry Brad............ i only just noticed your question.


I guess i'd like to see some kind of structure or design. I mean, how hard is it to say "Kick it to Fev"?????

Even when we throw another forward down there, be it Setanta, Cloke, Kreuzer, we still just kick to Fev or bomb it to the square and hope for the best. Sorry - but that is NOT good enough and is not and will not win you a premiership.

Moreso, as a Forwards Coach, it's not only your job to create avenues to create goals, it's your job to create a forward line preasure to keep the ball inside the 50.
Fevola has worked on this part of his game and done it well and Betts is probably one of the best in the leauge, but that's about it. I think the ball clears our 50 FAR to easy at times.


Lyon reckons the saints decided to concentrate on forward pressure late last season. He said they tweaked a few things further down the ground to make the forwards jobs a lot easier. You can see the Crows do the same. Players clearing defensive 50 just dont have any options so the end up getting caught. Cant blame Skinny if we are not set up the same way. Our chasing inside our 50 seemed to be very good this year just the opposition had too many options.

Many have tried to get our forward line with fev in it to look like it had a pattern or a style but most have failed. I think Lappin had some success and the stats support that. I wouldnt mind a change though just to mix things up. I am sure there will be one.

Go Blues !


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:20 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I haven't seen much of the ants, but in terms of results Teague seems to be doing pretty well :?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Well we are/were first for efficiency (amount of times scoring when going inside 50) yet 16th for marks inside 50.

So there is huge room for improvement...is our efficiency only high because we're taking shots from the boundary? How many shots are from inside 30m from relatively easy angles?

I want to see improvement in forward 50 entries when we've taken the ball out of defence very slowly and the opposition have flooded back.

There is little excuse kicking it to 3 on 1 when you have the ball from a mark...if you are under pressure then there is an excuse however by next year you'd hope the players decision making has improved even more.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:55 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Two words - Epic Fail

Otherwise we would have had more scoring options than Fev

Find someone else.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:00 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Fev played every game...how can you comment on our forward entries without him?

The rest of the side scored more than they did last season.


Ok so you are happy with Lappins performance and the way with which our forward line structure has developed...fine. I disagree though...and the reason is because we did not explore any other avenue to goal other than Fev. Cloke and Wiggins were tried early on and failed and then dumped only to be re-incarnated again for finals. Other than that nothing much else was trialed.


Club has spoken many times about having less reliance on Fev. I'm sure only the simpleton's think the game plan revolves around getting it and simply kicking to Fev and nothing else. Help to if we had a CHF. It's not an easy habit to break when we have been doing it for years but by the same token we didn't have many problems scoring goals. We got a decent contribution of goals from a number of players, including midfielders. Midfielder's too would surely be part of the forward set up as they are expect to run long, hard and deep. The way I see it it's looked pretty good hence a 13-9 record and a % of 110. Our points "for" was well up this year.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:02 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Megaman wrote:
I keep reading that Ratts would rather surround himself with numptys (ie unlikely future senior coaches) but rather than a guess, that Ratts is just covering his arse, where does this come from? Will Swann and co only realise Ratts isnt up to it if there is a "decent" coach also at the club, and so by not recruiting any, his job is secure for ever?


Megaman I'm pretty sure the club (and Ratts himself) didn't want to put the senior coach under too much pressure by having someone there with the credentials to 'take over' should the team not perform and the pressure get too much. After all - there is already enough pressure with the President breathing down your back...but the President has to keep Ratts honest and report back to Fraser Brown over a few ales that 'our mate is doing alright'. Now - I've shocked myself in saying that last bit because I am actually a believer in Carlton nepotism - but the 'favours' might have gone a bit far. Which leads me to Lappin...

TruBlueBrad wrote:
Doc, what is it you see at training that leads you to say that?

Is it what he is doing or what he's not doing?


A bit of both Brad. He was really only appointed as a favour because we'd told him he had to retire...but he got to hang around the club with the boys for a couple extra years with his mate Teague who couldn't run a bath let alone a training session. Look - to simplify it...neither are committed enough...neither have the drive, the football intelligence, the ability to 'tear strips' off the boys when warranted and neither are the answer as assistant coaches. Why do we have to continually offer work experience to guys who aren't committed to the cause?


Lot's of stereotypical tripe on these posts.

Given Teague's pushing a flag in the VFL I'm sure he isn't doing too bad. If he wins it I'm sure he'll be here again next year.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:25 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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jim wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Fev played every game...how can you comment on our forward entries without him?

The rest of the side scored more than they did last season.


Ok so you are happy with Lappins performance and the way with which our forward line structure has developed...fine. I disagree though...and the reason is because we did not explore any other avenue to goal other than Fev. Cloke and Wiggins were tried early on and failed and then dumped only to be re-incarnated again for finals. Other than that nothing much else was trialed.


Club has spoken many times about having less reliance on Fev. I'm sure only the simpleton's think the game plan revolves around getting it and simply kicking to Fev and nothing else. Help to if we had a CHF. It's not an easy habit to break when we have been doing it for years but by the same token we didn't have many problems scoring goals. We got a decent contribution of goals from a number of players, including midfielders. Midfielder's too would surely be part of the forward set up as they are expect to run long, hard and deep. The way I see it it's looked pretty good hence a 13-9 record and a % of 110. Our points "for" was well up this year.

I thought Betts was our CHF

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:54 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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I think our forward line is ok, until someone in the box decides to play that chip and putt game and then it all falls down.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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jim wrote:
Lot's of stereotypical tripe on these posts.

Given Teague's pushing a flag in the VFL I'm sure he isn't doing too bad. If he wins it I'm sure he'll be here again next year.


Yeah...Nah....this is Carlton...not some home for footballers who were retired against their will and were given assistant coaching roles as part of the payout. Let's get serious shall we.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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The forwards coach is partly responsible for Fev smashing up our other marking forwards. It's been happening for a long time now.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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isdonis.george wrote:
The forwards coach is partly responsible for Fev smashing up our other marking forwards. It's been happening for a long time now.


If you are refering to the incident with Setanta and Fev, that was completely Setantas fault. He should not have been there. Not only did he get himself hit but he brought along his opponent to stuff Fevs run at the ball. Lappin would have tried to teach him where not to be. Its a hard call to make whether the message was not strong enough from Lappin or whether Setanta just stuffed up and given Setantas lack of football nous (fair enoughm he is Irish) I would say Setanta was in the wrong.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:08 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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I think that if you are in a position to protect a team mate backing back to take a mark, or to smash him, most would recommend protecting him. The idea that he shouldn't be there so you smash him anyway is pretty counterproductive.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:36 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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TheSwan wrote:
isdonis.george wrote:
The forwards coach is partly responsible for Fev smashing up our other marking forwards. It's been happening for a long time now.


If you are refering to the incident with Setanta and Fev, that was completely Setantas fault. He should not have been there. Not only did he get himself hit but he brought along his opponent to stuff Fevs run at the ball. Lappin would have tried to teach him where not to be. Its a hard call to make whether the message was not strong enough from Lappin or whether Setanta just stuffed up and given Setantas lack of football nous (fair enoughm he is Irish) I would say Setanta was in the wrong.


..bollocks, in that instance the big Setant', even going back with the flight of the ball, had his opponent offside and had the sit.. ..sure mark, until Fev came charging from the square at a full sprint, and barely made the contest in time.. ..and then, completely cleaned up Setanta.. ..stupid move from fev, he's the one dragging the opponent to the contest in that instance..

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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yeh but the nerve of setanta even being there to go for the mark - when he should know the plan is go to fev every time :garthp:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:30 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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.. ..back in the days when the big Red coulda been anything [and shoulda if he didn't listen to his good mate col. sanders], the fevalenko wasn't the top dog of the F50, but now that he is, he's more 'hungry than sharing'.. ..he needs a strong forward coach to really direct him and get him doing more team things.. ..he's picked up his defensive pressure, but he's still too prone to turning his back on the play after taking a mark, almost anywhere within 60m's.. ..and if he's even a remore chance for a mark he'll crash a pack.. ..even if another of our forwards is in the better position to mark..

..am a big fev fan btw, just needs to be utilised better for the team [and him too]..

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