the map

dannyboy · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:55 pm

it seems to me people forget where we are coming from.

Take The Crows - everyone oohing and arhing over them but how long has it taken Craig to get them to this point (not that they have won the flag yet, just that they have reached that Matthew Knights point of the grass is always greener)

And how many players has he got who have played finals?

And how many players has he got that's played in a spoon? Or two? Lost more games than they have won etc?

Same with Saints. How many finals has that core group played ?

Geelong?

etc

then there is us - a team full of players with more experience winning spoons than finals, losing more games than they have won.

We have begun to address these issues but it will take time. The win/loss of home and away games is becoming balanced at last

we have played a final.

We must play more

and as we play more we will get better

but we are coming from a long way back. It will take some games.

Outback Blue · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:10 pm

This is a fair point, but what happens if the core group that we have now never wins a premiership.

What happens when we become good enough over the next 5-6 years to play finals every year but without coming home with at least one premiership.

This really worries me !!!!! :cry:

dannyboy · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:13 pm

a lot core group will be around for more than 5-6 years if the core is

Murph Gibbs Kruiser Yarran JR AJ Warnock Waite Bower Robbo Hammer Garlett Grigg

and yes say within 8 must win a flag but it used to be really hard

now its even harder

and we add 2 new teams just to up the ante.

verbs · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:18 pm

That core group at St Kilda really kicked in in 2004 (Riewoldt and Koschitzke's 4th season - ie same as Murphy this year). Many said that then their window was open and that 2004,05,06.07 was when they had to win one. Come 2009 it's looking a little more likely.

MTV.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:20 pm

yep the window thing is a crock of shit

Effes · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:24 pm

Yeh but you've got to win the flag within 2 years of first making the finals. :donk:

Hawthorn are the exception - even then they only won because Geelong didn't kick straight in the first half.

Nearly all premiership teams have had 3-4 finals series before winning it. Often with a year of choking/going out in straight sets.

Geelong went finals 03/04/05...missed the 8 in 06 then won the flag in 07.

Port choked for a few years. West Coast would have had 3 finals series before they won it.

I'm not saying you accept that it will take that long or think that after 2-3 finals series that it will just happen, it's just the reality of most premiership teams.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:25 pm

@#$%&! reality I want to sack someone

woof · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am **Posts:** 4919

verbs wrote:

That core group at St Kilda really kicked in in 2004 (Riewoldt and Koschitzke's 4th season - ie same as Murphy this year). Many said that then their window was open and that 2004,05,06.07 was when they had to win one. Come 2009 it's looking a little more likely.

MTV.

Grant Thomas v Ross Lyon

verbs · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:32 pm

woof wrote:

verbs wrote:

That core group at St Kilda really kicked in in 2004 (Riewoldt and Koschitzke's 4th season - ie same as Murphy this year). Many said that then their window was open and that 2004,05,06.07 was when they had to win one. Come 2009 it's looking a little more likely.

MTV.

Grant Thomas v Ross Lyon

A window is a window regardless of coach. As danny so insightfully pointed out, the window is a crock. Five years on and the window doesn't look like closing. The window could be 10 years! 15 maybe!

dannyboy · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:32 pm

Grant Thomas V Ross Lyon with players with finals experience under Grant :thumbsup:

Juddy&theKruezers · **Joined:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:12 pm **Posts:** 4426

dannyboy wrote:

it seems to me people forget where we are coming from.

Take The Crows - everyone oohing and arhing over them but how long has it taken Craig to get them to this point (not that they have won the flag yet, just that they have reached that Matthew Knights point of the grass is always greener)

And how many players has he got who have played finals?

And how many players has he got that's played in a spoon? Or two? Lost more games than they have won etc?

Same with Saints. How many finals has that core group played ?

Geelong?

etc

then there is us - a team full of players with more experience winning spoons than finals, losing more games than they have won.

We have begun to address these issues but it will take time. The win/loss of home and away games is becoming balanced at last

we have played a final.

We must play more

and as we play more we will get better

but we are coming from a long way back. It will take some games.

Yeah nah Danny...reckon ur clutching for an excuse....not saying we were destined for a GF this year but surely making it to next week was not a big ask given the opposition, the outs they had and injured old farts playing, given the lead we had early in the last...etc....we should be pissed off with that result last night....it's normal to be pissed off with it and be asking questions....IMO it is abnormal to be glossing over it under the guise of Danny Frawleys "they'll learn from that" crap.

Yeah we'll learn from it if we ask the questions and make the changes to avoid what happened happening again. We will learn SFA by patting all and sundry on the back and putting it all down to youth and inexperience. We were not playing the Cats yesterday...

verbs · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:38 pm

I don't think danny posting here will have any impact on how the team goes next year and beyond.

bluegirl72 · **Joined:** Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm **Posts:** 23932

It's not a window.
It's a point of view...
The way you see things...Holding a mutual vision..working for it.
Sometimes you almost have it working perfectly..but it needs tweaking..a couple of extra parts...just the right chemistry at the right time.
Wev'e had glimpses...there are flashes of light...
It's like one wrong cog throws out the whole finely tuned beast..
but next year...some missing pieces come back...and who knows what might happen.
Not a window...a wide open space..and the elusive 17th...who says it can't come in 2010?

Navy Blue Horse · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm **Posts:** 15848

I thought this thread was going to be about Tassie

dannyboy · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:54 pm

old farts like Brown, Black and Power et al beat our old farts like Stevens, Scotland and...ummm....

dannyboy · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:56 pm

Juddy&theKruezers wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

it seems to me people forget where we are coming from.

Take The Crows - everyone oohing and arhing over them but how long has it taken Craig to get them to this point (not that they have won the flag yet, just that they have reached that Matthew Knights point of the grass is always greener)

And how many players has he got who have played finals?

And how many players has he got that's played in a spoon? Or two? Lost more games than they have won etc?

Same with Saints. How many finals has that core group played ?

Geelong?

etc

then there is us - a team full of players with more experience winning spoons than finals, losing more games than they have won.

We have begun to address these issues but it will take time. The win/loss of home and away games is becoming balanced at last

we have played a final.

We must play more

and as we play more we will get better

but we are coming from a long way back. It will take some games.

Yeah nah Danny...reckon ur clutching for an excuse....not saying we were destined for a GF this year but surely making it to next week was not a big ask given the opposition, the outs they had and injured old farts playing, given the lead we had early in the last...etc....we should be pissed off with that result last night....it's normal to be pissed off with it and be asking questions....IMO it is abnormal to be glossing over it under the guise of Danny Frawleys "they'll learn from that" crap.

Yeah we'll learn from it if we ask the questions and make the changes to avoid what happened happening again. We will learn SFA by patting all and sundry on the back and putting it all down to youth and inexperience. We were not playing the Cats yesterday...

and we'll learn even less by expecting too much too soon, then deleting all and sundry who do not live up to overblown expectations - reality is a handy thing when assessing situations; I mean why is that preps don't learn medicine? Those who think we are the same as other clubs must then at least give us the same amount of time and experience as other clubs and stop expecting Carlton to somehow jump the stratosphere. Voss had some pretty could finals campaigners at his disposal - we had 1, Judd.

Synbad · **Posted:** Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:50 pm

I hate excuses.. especially the 'clutching at straws type'.......

.. its just mediocrity at its worse...

dannyboy · **Posted:** Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:32 am

thats okay I hate ideas that have no grasp of reality they lead to wars and all sorts of things.

camel · **Posted:** Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:16 am

dannyboy wrote:

Grant Thomas V Ross Lyon with players with finals experience under Grant :thumbsup:

~zomg!!11!!! dannyboy reckons Ross Lyon will be our next coach! :lol:

dannyboy · **Posted:** Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:58 am

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