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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:34 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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It was a good season all up and not by any means a disgraceful exit. Pity it was to Brisbane, where I live. Honestly, in the eight years we've missed finals they've won three premierships and played off in another, so rightfully they should've given us the game. It isn't fair that they won.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:49 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Synbad wrote:
And Cordy has failed this year also.Our players dont look conditioned as far as im concerned.


Its either fitness, mental or just a lack of leadership.

We haven't played 4 qrt of football all year and fade out too much during games. So that could be a number of reasons, young legs, experience, mental fatigue and so on.

It not a coincidence that in the last qrt, it was Brown (2goals), Bradshaw(2 goals), Black and Power that got that team over the line, they dragged there young teammates with them. Judd is 1 man and can't do everything himself.

It may have been the best thing that could have happened to that group last night, too many games this year they coasted along when they got in front taking the easy option, last night they lacked that killer instinct, when a team is on the ropes go in for the final kill and take them out.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:54 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Just gutted today prob more so last night but belived we where the better team on the night but you cant give up 5 goal leads.

In hindsight i think we should have put Warnock in to be the big dominant Ruckman would have been a risk but he would not have been pushed around so easily and could have freed up Kruze to play more up forward.

Overall yep we made finals and that was the requirement for 2009 but we should have gone through to play the Doggies i dont think we prob would have gone much further as teams like the Crows / saints / Cats are all more mature in bodies .... looking back at the Crows Game and the Mature bodies in there line up we still lack that in our core players and that showed when we played the Crows in round 22

I also agree we need to restructure our coaching line up maybe target a Leps from the Lions who i think is leaving them he would be an ideal Backline coach and maybe even Sumich from the Weagles

There will be a few good prospects around ... even Laidly as suggested

To make me feel less glum i hope the Pies are trounced buy the Saints today and then knocked out by the Crows the following week then it will lessen the pain up us being knocked out after that i dont really care who wins the flag in 2009

Will give me a little joy if the Pies are knocked out in staright sets

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:06 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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bosman wrote:
Synbad wrote:
And Cordy has failed this year also.Our players dont look conditioned as far as im concerned.


Its either fitness, mental or just a lack of leadership.

We haven't played 4 qrt of football all year and fade out too much during games. So that could be a number of reasons, young legs, experience, mental fatigue and so on.

It not a coincidence that in the last qrt, it was Brown (2goals), Bradshaw(2 goals), Black and Power that got that team over the line, they dragged there young teammates with them. Judd is 1 man and can't do everything himself.

It may have been the best thing that could have happened to that group last night, too many games this year they coasted along when they got in front taking the easy option, last night they lacked that killer instinct, when a team is on the ropes go in for the final kill and take them out.


Lack of mental hardness in areas of the leadership group.

Too many have cruised for too long thinking they were doing enough when in reality it was just mediocre....

We have young immature minds who are easily influenced which has been and still is a real worry...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:42 am 
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Rod McGregor

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jimmae wrote:
walkers a gun wrote:
Dont kid yourself... Cloke, Wiggins, Grigg, Johnson will still be in the mix next year.

Your only as good as your bottom 6 and ours is up there with the weakest in the comp.

We made finals because of one reason only... our top 5 players are stars and they carry us all week every week.

Cloke is a chance to be cut. None of those names are in our first 22. Who is this top 5?


TOP 5 - JUDD, MURPH, GIBBS, FEV and WAITE

Simpson has had a great year also, along with thornton, bower, AJ, Kruuuz.

Were still 2 midfielders short of a premiership side and atleast 1 key backman and forward


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:44 am 
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Ken Hunter
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lack of mental hardness

its tough when you've been losing for 7 odd years

its going to take time for this team to build the nerve finals demand. Its why it was important to play finals this year and why a win would have been great

but we need to win more games, and need to win the close ones. Self-belief comes from experience. Our experience has been crap until very recently.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:48 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Smashed in tackles AGAIN - meanwhile our best tackler has been playing the the 2s all season :screwy: .

I have to control myself from letting fly at Rattan. While he was one of my fav players of all time, he lacks the basics that good coaches require. Unfortunately we've chosen the wrong bloke.

He needs to start taking responsibilty - not just refer all disasters back to the players.

He coached appallingly when it counted last night. He gambled at the selection table that the injured players would not be playing - a direct contradiction to what he stated earlier in the week. Like Grant Thomas - he can be too smart for himself.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:50 am 
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Ken Hands
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Yesterday was a game we should have won, you dont go into a final thinking we were lucky to be there and did what we set out to do...make 1st week of finals! Disgraceful last qtr and disgraceful lack of urgency from Ratten. You could just see Brisbane were coming in the last and there was NOTHING done to curb it. Clog their forward line! Drop players back, Bower was clearly injured and we still had him going one on one with Bradshaw. Throw Eddie into the midfield, he did nothing else all game. And why on EARTH was Judd sitting on the bench??

If our guys are young, inexperienced etc etc it is up to the coach to identify the deficiencies and win the game. :banghead:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:54 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Spot on Chief...spot on....he did absolutely @#$%&! nothing in the last!!!

What was he thinking?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:59 am 
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Harry Vallence
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The Duke wrote:
Spot on Chief...spot on....he did absolutely !@#$%& nothing in the last!!!

What was he thinking?


I think he was watching the game ..... forgot he was coaching.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:00 pm 
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Garry Crane
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BOWER is USELESS

I wanted to run on the ground and smash him myself !!!!!

Tooo slow . And when he cant catch Bradshaw....he grabs him by the arms.....

GET RID OF HIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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dannyboy wrote:
lack of mental hardness

its tough when you've been losing for 7 odd years

its going to take time for this team to build the nerve finals demand. Its why it was important to play finals this year and why a win would have been great

but we need to win more games, and need to win the close ones. Self-belief comes from experience. Our experience has been crap until very recently.



Yep spot on danny.

This squad needs to really apply itself to the mental aspects of the team. The talent is there.

I wouldn't be averse to trading that 11th pick away for the right kind of leader in the squad. give me a week or two and I may even have a couple of suggestions.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:06 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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TrueQldBlue wrote:
BOWER is USELESS

I wanted to run on the ground and smash him myself !!!!!

Tooo slow . And when he cant catch Bradshaw....he grabs him by the arms.....

GET RID OF HIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!



:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:11 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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I think Hadley and Robinson were massive loses a few weeks back. Both are hard nosed bulls at the contest. Since they haven't played I've noticed our intensity and hardness has dropped away.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Rafalution wrote:
I think Hadley and Robinson were massive loses a few weeks back. Both are hard nosed bulls at the contest. Since they haven't played I've noticed our intensity and hardness has dropped away.


I'm not so sure on Robinson, there's a lot of headless chook in him (which of course will be replaced over time with smarts).

Hadley though... He's massively important for us.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:30 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Molly wrote:
It wasn't good, but you guys are all kidding yourselves if you thought we were going to win a flag this season. You just had to watch the Crows game to see that wasn't going to happen. So in the end, the pain of losing and going out was bound to happen in this finals series somewhere along the line. I actually think winning last night, and then b!tchslapping the Dogs next week like we usually do was going to mask a lot of the issues we have.

In my mind, the biggest issue is list structure. After the Hawthorn game we knew we had a weak bottom 6-8 on our list. If you look at last night's game, the only blokes in that 6-8 who had been weeded out from the Hawthorn match were Bentley and Setanta. And I include Setanta in that list out of kindness to the MC, as he was possibly missing because of injury rather than as a general assessment of where he is at. So basically, we are saying that the bottom 6 is holding us back after the Hawks game, and there is no change at all by season's end.

What the club needs going forward is development from Yarran, Austin, O'Keefe, Robinson, and Browne so that they can fill at least 5 of those bottom 6 positions on the team sheet every week. We made some inroads this year through the development of Joseph, Armfield, and Hammer, and we'll need more of that next year. We also need Grigg to get back to something like what he was last year.

In terms of trading, the last thing the club needs to do is to go after a big name player. We need every single draft pick we have available. We need to add to that list of Yarran etc with a further 4-5 young players who can slot into this list.

What we should be doing though is looking at our 2nd and 3rd tier and working out how we can do player for player swaps with players at other clubs who can fill structural holes on list. So we need to identify where we have a surplus of a particular type of player, pick the most tradeable, and swap for a type of player we don't have who is at a similar level at an opposition club. I think someone has identified an in and under midfielder, and I would think this is exactly the sort of player we should target in this kind of swap deal. We need to look at trades as win-win... we're not trying to stiff arm the opposition, we're trying to give them a player who will be serviceable for them and who is surplus to requirements for us, and we need to get a serviceable player in return.

I won't comment on coaching developments as I don't claim to know enough about the off-field situation and how it should be working. So my comments only relate to what needs to be done with cattle. The two go hand-in-hand though, and given the equitable playing field introduced by the AFL the battle for premierships is now a battle of ideas and nous, so we need to work out whether our efforts are being maximised in this area.

Oh... and to the guy who said we needed Rich rather than Yarran because he would have won us the game last night. Fair dinkum, I don't know where to start so I won't. :roll:


It's a very astute point you make Molly.

I'm leaving alone the topic of trading for KPP at either end of the park as I think it's a different kettle of fish. We have a surplus of outside midfielders, we need another inside midfielder. The most attractive second tier midfielders to other clubs on our list are Carrazzo, Grigg, Russell, Simpson and Walker.

Carrots bleeds Navy Blue and IMO should be VC next year. Simmo is in the same boat. After all the hard work put into creating some leadership in this age group, do we really want to gut it?

Walker is another who seemingly loves the club, and after years of perpetual injuries do we really want to trade this talented kid now he can actually get on the park?

Grigg is perhaps an option, but really he is just a pup and could develop into that role given time. And if anyone so much as thinks of trading Russell I'm going to come and burn down their houses.

I am by no means shit-canning your philosophy Molly, I agree with it whole-heartedly, just presenting the obvious list-management difficulties we have. Unlike Adelaide and Brisbane, our veteran players, bar Fevola, are not first-tier players anymore, nor are they IMHO great leaders. They are worth nothing to other clubs on the market and very little to us, aside from being slightly better than younger middle-tier players. We are in many ways stuck because we can't trade off veterans who aren't pulling their weight, nor can we make Fev a few years younger to develop along with the rest of the side.

Oh and Ratts can't coach. Obviously.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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I'm gutted. Haven't felt this bad since 93. Have no other words.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:41 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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walkers a gun wrote:
jimmae wrote:
walkers a gun wrote:
Dont kid yourself... Cloke, Wiggins, Grigg, Johnson will still be in the mix next year.

Your only as good as your bottom 6 and ours is up there with the weakest in the comp.

We made finals because of one reason only... our top 5 players are stars and they carry us all week every week.

Cloke is a chance to be cut. None of those names are in our first 22. Who is this top 5?


TOP 5 - JUDD, MURPH, GIBBS, FEV and WAITE

Simpson has had a great year also, along with thornton, bower, AJ, Kruuuz.

Were still 2 midfielders short of a premiership side and atleast 1 key backman and forward

So now it's a key 10 rather than a top 5... normality returns. ;)

I agree, we need another 3 or 4 players to stand up. Our first choice defence is fantastic. We need cover for Jamison and we need Bower and Austin to continue to develop physically as well as mentally. Medium and small defensive cover are of some concern still.

Ruck division is set and needs to develop. Midfield is looking pretty sound but it needs a little variety, and we need cover for Hadley.

The forward line is the key. We addressed this last draft, and we need to pluck another sound tall forward or lead option to develop.

So in essence: Inside mid, FB, BP, Lead-up forward/tall forward

If we haven't looked to address three of those four in the draft without a real bargain sliding to our pick, I will be left wondering what our club is thinking.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:15 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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TrueQldBlue wrote:
BOWER is USELESS

I wanted to run on the ground and smash him myself !!!!!

Tooo slow . And when he cant catch Bradshaw....he grabs him by the arms.....

GET RID OF HIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Or maybe bring in Jamo and Waite, and play Bower on the 4th forward.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Just saw footage of the players ariving back, Joseph is on crutches.


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