Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Mon Jun 23, 2025 4:04 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 75 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:56 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6425
simonverbeek wrote:
The journey ends, but hopefully another begins.

The game for me was a microcosm of our whole year. Superb talent on display for all to see, and impressive play from our young players. But all brought undone by a lack of coherent team structure, set play nous, and corridor protection. This has caused us to yet again drop a game that should have been won.

The lessons from this game, and the year, need to be corrected. It seems this coach will be given a chance to do it - I hope he succeeds.

Summer starts tomorrow for Carlton, and it must all be about three things: Structure, Structure, and Structure.

PROS

1. Heath Scotland and Andrew Carrazzo deserve plaudits for standing up in the clearances. As secondary midfielders, they were great.

2. Gibbs dominated early but faded badly

3. I honestly don’t know who the guy wearing number 2 is but lock him in for the next 8 years at HBF. Andy McKay eat your heart out. I wonder where Jordan Russell went?

4. Our ruckmen got beat today, not because the other mob were better, but just older bigger. I like both 8 and 22 and with more size they won’t get pushed out of contests. Matthew Kreuzer has been asked to do too much this year, but gee he has done it well.

5. We have talent, we have the opportunity to build something great, I just pray those in charge can get our boys playing organised, impressive footy.

CONS

1. The Corridor - we concede it too easily, and use it too infrequently. I don’t know what our coach’s plan is, but this part makes no sense. They cut us up through the middle.

2. Team defence is poor - the ball streamed in with ease. We don’t play whole team defence. To become elite, we need to learn

3. Forward structure again - Compare their goals to ours. They kicked good solid lead-mark goals - we relied on the ball scummily falling over the back of a pack. There was some stat today about us being efficient when we enter forward 50 - I can’t reconcile that stat with what I observe in our forward play.

4. Some bad clangers by the fringe players. Wiggins, armfield, Cloke, Garlett. They all did some good things, but they did some shocking things too. Are they up to it? Well, Armfield just shouldn’t kick, the others need people to grab their spots.

5. If we’re still playing this type of footy by midyear next year, I think things could get nasty. Match Committee changes are obligatory over the summer, surely.


Well done to the boys for bringing Carlton to September. I’m proud of them.

But being in September is symbolic - you have to do something in September to give it meaning. And we must start working to that tomorrow.

The Carlton Football Club fights on.




Great post
The space the Lions were given in the corridor was unbelievable.
Its funny but i never felt confident we were going to win . Even after Cloke kicked that goal.Brisbane were the better team on the night. It was only the brilliance of guys like Fevola that kept us in the game.
We didnt clog up the space around CHF.
So nobody should blame Bower or Thornton. Some of our players didnt want to get in Bradshaws or Browns space.
That was piss poor. We do have a lot of DHS.
We need another marking forward. Cloke was ok tonight but he is too slow . Hopefully 206 and Hammer will share the rucking duties which will allow Kreuzer to play up forward. Jacobs has shown enough to be promoted to povide insurance if there are injuries. Remember the game at AAMI last year. And we need a 3rd marking option. A leadup forward with good skills. Our forward line stats are good because Betts and Fevola are so brilliant. As you said we need structure.
Our bottom 6 arnt great. We hopefully recruit well . Ellard hopefully is promoted. Has good skills and will make it.
Hughes faces his greatest test n the next years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:07 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 40291
Location: seaside
Guts churning................!


kindest regards tommi

_________________
that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:19 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:27 pm
Posts: 6260
Location: Conservative Brisbane :O(
Pros: coulda, shoulda won even though Brown and Bradshaw carved...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:38 am 
Offline
Bert Deacon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:05 am
Posts: 599
Location: Dandenong
Pro: when you relax and think about it in the cold hard light of day, what did we aim for this year? I'm not sure if we can bring up the thread from earlier this season about expectations of season 09. But I'm sure most of us would have said we want to make finals and show improvement, and we definately did that!
I'm proud of our boys, super proud! We won 13games, and lost 3 or so very narrowly. We are young and get another preseason into the younger boys and we will improve again, and that's all we can ask.

CONS: I do hope the boys are hurting and feeling sick because it will make them hungrier! you can't just let teams get massive run ons like that, but in my opinion that's also to do with coaching. I love Ratts and his passion, but he doesn't have enough tricks. When teams get a run on he doesn't do anything! Drop someone or two back FFS, do something, instead Judd and Kruzer are out of the middle and we are getting bashed in the centre!

I love the Blues, that's why I couldn't sleep last night, sick in the stomach! BUT bring back Waite, Jamo and Warnock fully fit and LOOK OUT in 2010

_________________
Matty Kruzer you star!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:03 am 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 2125
PROS
We made the finals
Russell developing well
I actually thought TBird and Bower were good players at 3/4 time. In the last we gave them too little help
Great courage by Wiggo in going back with the flight in the last

CONS
Playing a side of about equal ability and experience we had the game won and threw it away.

Played an out of form Grigg who I think was on Black early and was flogged. Grigg looked in terrible form. If he couldn't break in to the side earlier it was unlikely he would do much in a final. Steve Browne is a battler but he couldn't have been worse than Grigg

Playing 3 ruckmen. Cloke battled well in the ruck in the front half, but as a forward when the ball hit the deck he was out of the contest and we were a man short. Because he was up there it meant Hammer and Big K spent almost no time resting forward. They only played about half a game each. This cut down on our rotations for other players as did AJs injury and the choice of Jeff Gartlett who only played a half.

After Gartlett's indiscretion last week I was surprised he was recalled. I thought, Yarran, in a side that lost by 12 goals, was better than Gartlett this week. Gartlett has a special talent but is too light and spent too little time on the ground.

The selection choice should have been Cloke or Hammer. As above three ruckmen in the side meant everyone else had to work harder and were therefore a bit more tired in the last qtr. As it was Mitch Clarke dominated the ruck in the last when he should have been out on his feet.

Murphy and Gibbs down on form

Possibility we will lose Icke to GC, and replace him with a mate of Sticks from the 95 premiership side. Badly need a shake up on the MC to challenge the coach and provide greater experience.

I fear a return to the old quick fix Carlton who will trade for a wayward 30 year old Tarrant and a second rate WAFL player Ash Hansen

The admin needs to compare our draft selections 20+ over the last 5 years to the best (Adelaide) and find out what we need to do to to draft more effectively deeper.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:19 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
hollywood43 wrote:
Pro: when you relax and think about it in the cold hard light of day, what did we aim for this year? I'm not sure if we can bring up the thread from earlier this season about expectations of season 09. But I'm sure most of us would have said we want to make finals and show improvement, and we definately did that!
I'm proud of our boys, super proud! We won 13games, and lost 3 or so very narrowly. We are young and get another preseason into the younger boys and we will improve again, and that's all we can ask.

CONS: I do hope the boys are hurting and feeling sick because it will make them hungrier! you can't just let teams get massive run ons like that, but in my opinion that's also to do with coaching. I love Ratts and his passion, but he doesn't have enough tricks. When teams get a run on he doesn't do anything! Drop someone or two back FFS, do something, instead Judd and Kruzer are out of the middle and we are getting bashed in the centre!

I love the Blues, that's why I couldn't sleep last night, sick in the stomach! BUT bring back Waite, Jamo and Warnock fully fit and LOOK OUT in 2010


i thought aiming at understanding how to play footy .
Bring back Waite Warnock and Jamo and lose 3 others.... Fev Judd and Murphy maybe .. touch wood...

That is the nature of football.

If you seriously believe we wont have injuries...

Brissy have them too...

We need to become better runners.
We need to understand to play the game better.
We need a non Venables style of coaching performance.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:33 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:29 am
Posts: 6418
Location: Casa Da Carlton - The Place to Be
Synbad wrote:

i thought aiming at understanding how to play footy .
Bring back Waite Warnock and Jamo and lose 3 others.... Fev Judd and Murphy maybe .. touch wood...

That is the nature of football.

If you seriously believe we wont have injuries...

Brissy have them too...

We need to become better runners.
We need to understand to play the game better.
We need a non Venables style of coaching performance.


not having a shot here synbad, but thats rubbish.

there are players in each side, that are simply not replaceable.

judd, murphy, fevola, waite, jamieson - are players that i think we can simply not cover ... and every side is the same.

take hodge, sewell, buddy, roughhead - out of the hawks they will struggle
take black, power, bradshaw, brown - out of the lions they will struggle
take ablett, bartel, mooney, scarlet - our of the cats, they will struggle
take revolt, kosi, hayes - out of the saints, they will struggle.

there are players you can cover for injuries, and then there are players you cant cover .... we lost 2 out of 5 that arent replaceable and did okay.

yes injuried are a part of footy, but losing key players for long periods of time can be the difference between success and failure, that is where the luck comes into. a good run of no injuries to your key personal will take you a long way to winning a flag.

alot of talk about bottom six players being the difference, well losing half of your top 6 players, is as damaging if not more so that your bottom six playing poorly.

who exactly from the lions, that was out injury, was not replaceable?

_________________
Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:38 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
If we had lost the midfield and not a couple of tall defenders id agree.

If we had lost Fev and Judd id agree.


So what youre saying is Brisbane didnt have players out and our players played to the best of their abilities but wernt good enough ???

Keep it in perspective.

Brisbane had players out and players under an injury cloud...Brisbane is who we played!

We didnt get the most out of our players.
Our players didnt get the most out of themselves.
Our tactics were flawed.. as they have been all year.
Our players are not conditioned to run hard.

Im waiting for the spin doctoring....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:51 am 
Offline
Wayne Johnston
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 8128
It's indesputable that our slow movement of play from defence, our incapability of defensively locking down the corridor when the opposition has the ball and our one dimensional forward structure are major reasons we are where we are.

In my opinion, it's obvious that our reliance on certain senior players to consistently play a major role is misguided.
Will we continue to waste time in the years ahead relying on mediocre senior players to get the job done??


On the positive.. Army, Joseph and Russell passed the test last night, IMO. :thumbsup:

_________________
There's so much I could say...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:53 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10406
Location: Coburg
spin doctoring has already started.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:53 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:18 am
Posts: 1321
Location: Melbourne
Synbad wrote:
If we had lost the midfield and not a couple of tall defenders id agree.

If we had lost Fev and Judd id agree.


So what youre saying is Brisbane didnt have players out and our players played to the best of their abilities but wernt good enough ???

Keep it in perspective.

Brisbane had players out and players under an injury cloud...Brisbane is who we played!

We didnt get the most out of our players.
Our players didnt get the most out of themselves.
Our tactics were flawed.. as they have been all year.
Our players are not conditioned to run hard.

Im waiting for the spin doctoring....


No spin doctoring, but seriously you'd think we should be on top of the ladder the way you carry on sometimes.

All your comments can be attributed to any team at any time of the year. Let me know your solution to our problems and I'll direct Brett Ratten end the MC to this site :thumbsup: .

Waite and Jamison were massive outs this year and anyone that thought we'd go deep into September without them had rocks in their head. I'm so pissed off we lost it's not funny but put the season in perspective and we're on the right track.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:53 am 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm
Posts: 3021
I got the feeling many of our key play makres were probably too defensively minded (a reaction to the dowhill skiier tag), and it didn't even work for them. Gibbs and Murphy and Simpson just didn't get into open space enough to hurt, and Walker and Russell were quiet too (JR developing nicely though). Is it Ratten's fault the players were not attacking enough? He and the players need to find the right balance. Just thought our key playermakers didn't get enough of the ball where it really hurts.

Gibbs in particular very poor, just 18 touches, Stevens also faded with just 18 touches, and Walks just 12. Yes I know he was tagging, but the point still stands, when the Lions inevitable run on came late in the game we just didn't have enough playmakers getting the ball where it counts, in space.

In other words, where was the run? Looks at cats and Dog, they ran and ran and ran.

We refused to run when it counted the most. What on earth is Ratten teaching this mob?

Cloke missed when the pressure was on.

Betts quiet again. What's happened to him?

Nobody cutting off the kicks to Bradshaw. Ratten, did you think to do something about this? Those plays killed us all night.

Grigg should not have played. Out of form and down on confidence, just terrible.

Wasted the year in so far as we could have brought in Warnock and started blooding Kruezer as a forward. Good game by the Shag, but unlike Brisbane who had two options we were so predictable again going to Fev all the time. Why bring in Cloke if you rarely go to him? At least Setanta could have been a 3rd option down back.

Dissappointing night and I am not convinced over our coach and our MC who I think have mucked up numerous times during the year.

_________________
It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:57 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Its not about "mediocre senior players getting the job done"

Its about having a team out there that understands how to play... they are conditoned to play.. and play as one .. spreading the workload...

They have not been tutored correctly and it shows...
They are not conditioned for the modern game and it shows...
They are not playing to the best of their abilities and it shows...

Interesting to see what they do to change things for another assault next year.
With each game you have learnt nothing youre never getting that game back.
With each season you have come away without proper improvement(game plan) .. its another season you have lost.

Time is the most important commodity... you can never get time back... its slipped by youre older.. and you have less time ahead of you...

Thats a reality

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:58 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Virgin Blue wrote:
I got the feeling many of our key play makres were probably too defensively minded (a reaction to the dowhill skiier tag), and it didn't even work for them. Gibbs and Murphy and Simpson just didn't get into open space enough to hurt, and Walker and Russell were quiet too (JR developing nicely though). Is it Ratten's fault the players were not attacking enough? He and the players need to find the right balance. Just thought our key playermakers didn't get enough of the ball where it really hurts.

Gibbs in particular very poor, just 18 touches, Stevens also faded with just 18 touches, and Walks just 12. Yes I know he was tagging, but the point still stands, when the Lions inevitable run on came late in the game we just didn't have enough playmakers getting the ball where it counts, in space.

In other words, where was the run? Looks at cats and Dog, they ran and ran and ran.

We refused to run when it counted the most. What on earth is Ratten teaching this mob?

Cloke missed when the pressure was on.

Betts quiet again. What's happened to him?

Nobody cutting off the kicks to Bradshaw. Ratten, did you think to do something about this? Those plays killed us all night.

Grigg should not have played. Out of form and down on confidence, just terrible.

Wasted the year in so far as we could have brought in Warnock and started blooding Kruezer as a forward. Good game by the Shag, but unlike Brisbane who had two options we were so predictable again going to Fev all the time. Why bring in Cloke if you rarely go to him? At least Setanta could have been a 3rd option down back.

Dissappointing night and I am not convinced over our coach and our MC who I think have mucked up numerous times during the year.



They missed more opportunities.. had more posts.. more kicks stopped on the line...

They thoroughly desreved their win....

Thats the disappointing aspect of the game....

We deserved to lose.....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:25 am 
Offline
Wayne Johnston
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 8128
Synbad wrote:
Its not about "mediocre senior players getting the job done"


....



mediocre frontrunners who are mentally fragile and poor role models...

_________________
There's so much I could say...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:37 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
bax wrote:
Synbad wrote:
If we had lost the midfield and not a couple of tall defenders id agree.

If we had lost Fev and Judd id agree.


So what youre saying is Brisbane didnt have players out and our players played to the best of their abilities but wernt good enough ???

Keep it in perspective.

Brisbane had players out and players under an injury cloud...Brisbane is who we played!

We didnt get the most out of our players.
Our players didnt get the most out of themselves.
Our tactics were flawed.. as they have been all year.
Our players are not conditioned to run hard.

Im waiting for the spin doctoring....


No spin doctoring, but seriously you'd think we should be on top of the ladder the way you carry on sometimes.

All your comments can be attributed to any team at any time of the year. Let me know your solution to our problems and I'll direct Brett Ratten end the MC to this site :thumbsup: .

Waite and Jamison were massive outs this year and anyone that thought we'd go deep into September without them had rocks in their head. I'm so pissed off we lost it's not funny but put the season in perspective and we're on the right track.



People are so silly.

Its not about positions on the ladder......really it isnt...
Its about what you do with your footy team.
If your football team undersstands how to play... Did you note the 4 meter kick passes we made last night?Bizarre!!!... you will win games of football..and your ladder position will improve.
If you can have good ball movement you will have a better position on the ladder.

What some of you believe is that you dont have to do these things and youll keep winning.

Yeah you will... against teams that have less good players and dont have team structure and drilling...

But it isnt enough to book yourself into anything important.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:40 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
bax wrote:
Synbad wrote:
If we had lost the midfield and not a couple of tall defenders id agree.

If we had lost Fev and Judd id agree.


So what youre saying is Brisbane didnt have players out and our players played to the best of their abilities but wernt good enough ???

Keep it in perspective.

Brisbane had players out and players under an injury cloud...Brisbane is who we played!

We didnt get the most out of our players.
Our players didnt get the most out of themselves.
Our tactics were flawed.. as they have been all year.
Our players are not conditioned to run hard.

Im waiting for the spin doctoring....


No spin doctoring, but seriously you'd think we should be on top of the ladder the way you carry on sometimes.

All your comments can be attributed to any team at any time of the year. Let me know your solution to our problems and I'll direct Brett Ratten end the MC to this site :thumbsup: .

Waite and Jamison were massive outs this year and anyone that thought we'd go deep into September without them had rocks in their head. I'm so pissed off we lost it's not funny but put the season in perspective and we're on the right track.

How would we have won with Waite and Jamo in the side... the game changed through the middle in the last... We went short and we got overun....thats where we lost the game...!!!

And no wwere not on the right track.. UNLESS we know how to play the game...were jusst on a track...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:47 am 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
Russell's kick ins from the point were superb. I seen a good one from Houlihan too but it seemed like all of Russell's were spot on.

Russell would've gained plenty from last night.

Looking forward to next year's elimination final. Hopefully it's in Melbourne and we pull of a victory.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:35 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18035
Pro's
Finals experience for the youngsters. Hammer, Murphy, Gibbs, Bower, AJ, Kruezer, they'll all be better players for the experience.
Armfield shows signs that he'll make it.
JR has come along in leaps and bounds.
Judd, he's a star.

Cons.

There were a few crucial moments in the game where we had the opportunity to break their back and we couldn't see it through.
Simmo running into 50 and chipping it sideways to Brown, Eddies poster, Cloke and Scotlands misses. We needed to step up to the plate and we were'nt able to. From the point, we were always going to be susceptible to the inevitable. This group doesn't have the bank of confidence and belief that several years of competitive winning provides. We went back into our shells and stopped running. Forget the nonsense about "cooking' players and blaming the MC, this was lost in the 150mm between the players ears.
The positive is, we've shown we have the ability, time and experience will supply the rest.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:38 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10406
Location: Coburg
you mean we only have a 200mm game plan?

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 75 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 65 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group