Why are you comparing Cloke as a ruckman with Santy as a forward/defender? Knock yourself out if you think that Cloke should be the 2nd ruckman. He's competing with Jacobs, Hammer and Warnock for that role, not Santy.

I'll add to this.

Knock yourself out if you think Cloke should ever play another game in the seniors.

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#23: Lachlan Henderson

Your the one that said Cloke couldn't have played Santys role
you started the comparison not me

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

..well, like vs the port-pies,, he was serviceable, which is just about what you need from your depth players.. ..make no mistake, he's not in our best 22.. ..it's just hard to get yer best 22 on the park at the same time.. ..but he's not competitive in the ruck [too short/no ruck leap], and any leading marks as a fwd Santy can do anyways.. ..so he's behind our true ruckmen, and behind fev/santy as kpf's.. ..he's a depth player..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

No, you started it when you suggested that other tall forwards have been closely marked by top tall defenders. You seem to have gone off on a tangent by comparing Cloke's efforts as a 2nd ruckman to those of Santy as a running tall forward. Apples and oranges. As I said, if you want to say that Cloke is a better 2nd ruckman than Santy, I'm not going to argue against that. But Cloke isn't competing against Santy for that spot.

When Cloke , fisher or Waite were playing forward they would attract the second best defenders - what do you think sides said it's not Santy we could put any old dud on them - When Santy was not in the equation and others were filling the role he has been doing the same blokes that now are picking Santy up were picking Cloke and Fisher up and your dreaming if you think anything else was happening

Cloke - Fisher copped a bucketing for not be able to cope or contribute significantly I was noting th e the fact that now other teams are paying the same sort of attention to Santy - He is struggling


See it is this rubbish that makes me laugh

Had Santy been out of the side against Port and had Cloke played in his stead as the 2nd tall forward, then my guess is that Cornes would have played a much more freewheeling game. That's the game that suits Cornes, and he would have been far more able to cut off passes to Fev. Instead, he was often hard on Santy's tail to prevent Santy marking on the wing.


so much so that Cloke spent a fair bit forward in the last and Santy back - and we kicked 9 goals in the last - Maybe Cloke did a better job as a foil on Cornes

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

This sounds perilously close to a Talking Players thread.
Firstly SoH is not a star, and as with all players he will have good games and bad games. Fish has been tried as CHF and I really like him but despite good hands, he is too slow, lacks size, can't keep his feet and can only hurt the oppo if he has a shot from within 40. His field kicking is very poor. It is sad but that is the reality.

Cloke is the same player the Pies let go - to small for a ruck and not agile or quick enough for a key forward. He battled manfully on Sunday but couldn't get his hands near the ball. He would be unlucky to be dropped but Hammer is the future and can get knockouts.

Setanta has been a good foil and even on Sudnay he had Chad Cornes who (despite what we think) is a gun, an AA CHB and according to Lethal Leigh the best contested mark in the comp. It was a really difficult day for forwards - which made fev's game even more meritorious. Setanta still had a hand in about 4 clear shots at goal mainly through agility and quick hands. He is the CHF now and there should be no change with the run in to the finals. And unless they try and turn Big K into a CHF (and I'd much rather him as a ruckman, and the jury is still out on Warnock) there is no-one else at the club likely to take the role in the near future. So our next genuine CHF will be someone we haven't drafted yet. Setanta has improved a lot this season, particularly his marking. If he keeps following instructions he will do okay. There has been a lot of work to get him to this point and clearly if he is in the best 22 now you would expect him to be required next year. And lets not come up with the old chesnut of 'he wouldn't get a game anywhere else" - Saints - Zac Dawson; Geelong - Lonergan, Bullies need anyone over 190cm, C'wood - Leigh Brown etc

Aaannnnd another beautiful kick to Fev for a goal. Keep racking therm up big fella. Even the doubters will one day see.

SB, it's good to see you avoid the point yet again. If I played this week at CHF for the Blues, I'm sure I'd shake hands with the CHB, but he wouldn't bother to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with me after that. Saying that the 2nd best defender would go to Cloke or Fish is missing the point - it's how they play on them that is important. Santy keeps them honest whereas the CHBs took liberties with the other 2. Pointing to uncontested marks taken by Cloke up forward tends to make the point rather than disprove it.

But we'll wait and see. If you're right about Cloke's excellent adventure up forward, then Warnock will take 2nd ruck, Cloke will take CHF and Santy will play in red. Let's see how that goes. If it works out that way, we should kick 36 goals this week.

Mav he has struggled since the injury and since they have paid him more attention

Just like the rest of them


Let's see if he can work through it


Cloke will play ruck again this week

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

loosely termed 'play ruck'

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I don't know where any of you are coming from suggesting that Setanta is struggling; injured or not.

He played against Freo injured and kicked 3 and should have kicked 6.

The injury moved to his hamstring.

Since coming back I reckon he has done really well getting to the contest (due to his pace), he's presenting well (pace and better reading of the play), is involved with more assists than ever before being injured (ability to read the game), his defensive pressure is still very good especially for a 200cm player (good below the knees and has pace) and continues to take big marks.

He's our CHF: period!

There's nothing wrong with him. Cloke is NOT the answer for CHF (get off the grass).

Bring on the finals, because we need a CHF who can compete, and Setanta is the man...ask anyone without an agenda.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Unfortunately I do not think O'hailpin is the answer. I watched him closely last week and he really struggles to take a mark. He doesn't extend the dukes when going for a mark and is very tentative in a marking contest. I admire his work ethic, but other than that he doesn't have much going for him.
Strengths: Work ethic
Weaknesses: cannot mark, average kick, and does not read the play well as expected given his hurling background.
Jarrod Waite is the answer up forward. Unfortunatley we have to wait for 2010 to see him again.
Kruezer can pinch hit but do not see him as a permanant forward.
Hopefully in the off season we can attract a big fish from another club.

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I love it when I read a critique which incorporates the hoary old chestnut about Santy lacking footskills. If only Santy's footskills were average for our team ... Throw in a good old hurling reference and all bases are covered

At round 20 in 2009 he is imo.

Waite's a no brainer but I reckon he'd be played down back and in the middle most of the time.

Who else is there for CHF atm?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

for those who think setanta isnt a good marK. . Grab a copy of the geelong game the other week. . Several contested pack marks AND several leading marks taken out in front when playing the leadup role. . .

He's improved out of sight to the point that IMO he's no longer 'going to be something' i believe he's a dangerous player. .. Not a . Obviously love brown, riewoldt or franklin ahead of him but he's the best CHF option we have by a long way (under the notion waite plays back and kreuzer in the ruck which at the moment is where both are best suited)

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Cuck Follingwood

love the Santy ... needs to improve more to keep his spot in the coming years but for now without doubt the best option ... but to those saying Cloke is better WTF?

I hate to say this but if there is a player on the trading block who is made available for an established player and/or a pick I wouldn't be in the least surprised to see the Blues dangle Setanta. I believe his value is as high as it is ever going to be, people are starting to recognise his talent levels yet he may not have a regular spot on our team as soon as next year.

If we move MK to the CHF position and give the ruck to the combo of Hampson and Warnock (which I have no doubt is the plan right now) then what happens to Setanta? We already have Jamo, TBird and Bower as the talls down back, we'd be carrying Kreuzer, Fevola, Hampson and Warnock as the other talls... We also have Jarrad Waite who can play a key position, Walker can if he has to slide into one...

Setanta's the man who in my opinion is worth the most who could be available.

I love the guy though and I pray he's not traded. I loved the way he took it to Cornflakes at AAMI last week, he's done nothing but impress me.

This thread has run its course.

Santy has proved over the past few weeks that he has a future and there are many before him to be delisted come season's end.

He is one of many that has taken huge steps fwd in the 2nd half of the season.

Congrats to santy, all the hard work and years of perseverance has paid off, and he is now a bona fide AFL player