Ratts is mantastic.

Firstly - KK If you think the 'inability' to change a fixture has anything to do with fans, and not corporate hospitality and TV rights, you're kidding yourself. I mean, please. If a multi billion (annually) TV rights income sport like the NFL can do it, we can too.

Secondly - on game plans, the lack or presence of - Speaking for myself, I'd like to have some idea when I'm going to watch Carlton play that I know what I'm in for (eg St Kilda - caution thrown the the wind, play on at all costs vs Collingwood and Nth stop-go-sideways-stop-go-sideways). But more than that - MUCH more than that, in fact - my criticisms of Ratten stem from seeing things on the field that are simply wrong. These having nothing to do with experience, development.

And we've spent 101 pages on the other thread talking about these - positional, structural and ongoing dramas with basic elements of the game.

So forgive me, please, for refusing to paper over those yawning cracks with gee-look-we're-beating-teams-who-have-given-up-this-year grins, or we-lost-a-lot-of-games-three-years-ago-so-shut-up-damn-it-you-WILL-be-happy sentiments.

To my untutored eye good sides, with good coaches have stability in the way they play. Carlton seem to be too fluid to build up rhythymn and momentum. Have injuries played a part in this? Most probably, particularly with Waite going down.

But I'll give you an example that is worrying to me, even though it's very small. Against Collingwood, we get burned repeatedly by Heath Shaw kicking to himself and playing on after a Carlton point. So next week..... we start playing on repeatedly after NTh behinds (after not doing it much at all prior). To me that smacks of the old... well jeez if it worked against us then by golly we should be having a crack at that too''

If what we're about is establishing ourselves as a genuine force in this league, we should be a little better than that... well at least I think so

I'm sorry but is this not the most fundamental way of learning how to improve? By watching someone else doing something more effectively and thinking 'hey that's a good idea, I think I might nick that'? In fact the previous Ratten thread (God rest its locked soul) is littered with posts stating Team X does Y, why don't we do Y? Y? Y?

Leigh Tudor isn't a footballing genius for instructing his forward line players to switch quickly from attack to defense and pressure the opposition ball carrier in their defensive 50, thus limiting the opposition's time in possession and meters gained. He'd just watched some Dutch soccer from the 70's and thought "well jeez if it worked so well for them what if we tried it on an oval field".

_________________
STURDYISM!!

One hundred and one pages Punter...and the rest. You must have missed a few other threads

Although I agree with Fraser that there is nothing wrong with nicking an idea if you think it could help your team, I think that you are jumping at shadows here Punter

I'm not sure that playing on five or six times out of eighteen constitutes doing it repeatedly. Admittedly we didn't do it against the Pies but that probably more reflects our attitude on the day and how good defensively the wobbles were...not to mention different people taking the kick-ins. Both Stevo and Hoops who took most of them against North, didn't against the Pies. Both love a cheap stat For example in round five against the Dogs, before we had played the Pies even once, we played on four or five times out of twelve. Stevo did it twice with one howler of a clanger


Even the way we played on from a kick-in against North was different to how the Pies did against us. When the Pies played on they used two variants.

In one they had a player hang back and lurk near our guy guarding the mark instead of providing a short kick option. That player would then block our bloke on the mark...allowing Shaw to play on and gain a few more metres.

Their other option was to play on and bounce towards the fifty metre mark with the aim of drawing defenders in to create space further up the ground. Shaw actually nearly made it to the fifty on one occasion which was very poor defensive work by us

How we did it against North was very different...we neither used a blocker or bounced towards the fifty. We simply, when the North defense allowed us, kicked it to ourselves ran a few metres without bouncing and generally kicked long. The only real similarity was that we actually played on a few times, but nowhere near as many times as you seem to believe or in a way that was different to other times during the season.

Perhaps in hindsight we actually should have copied the Pies

OK, I will keep it simple. The simplest way to judge a coach is to see if they get the most out of the combined rabble that makes up the team. The coaches that impress at the moment are Eade, Malthouse, Knights and Roos (until very recently). Think about how many of the Mudpies you actually want to play for the Blues - yet the team makes the finals year after year. Roos has had the Swans up and about for 7 years with a few names and a lot of solid triers. Eade has made the most of his team of midgets and Knights has got the &*#$^! doing far better than they deserve.

Lyon and Thompson have shown that they can put their stamp on a good set of players - Lyon in particular turning a bunch of front runners into a hard working group.

Ratts - I fear that he is an excellent assistant (I have friends at Melbourne who still rave about the work he did their) - we do not all have the DNA to be the head honcho and it appears that the "Peter Principle" may have occurred.

We are doing OK and certainly have improved a lot over the past two years - we just have not taken the step that makes us all think that we have gelled together as a team that is going all the way - Ratts is way better than Pagan but maybe we could have done better had we actually looked.

I think the coaching was much better tonight, and hopefully we learn from that™.

With underdog status it seemed as though the players were encouraged to play on and run at all costs. The freedom offered allowed the guys to take more risks, whereas last week we were much more circumspect and conservative.

A much better game to watch tonight and, of course, a much better result.

_________________
Click here to follow TalkingCarlton on twitter
TalkingCarlton Posting Rules

I'm disappointed.

They were one-dimensional all night, no Plan B™

Good thing our Plan A was better than Geelong's

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

MC will be in the pros this week....I said in the pros (not at the pros)....

_________________
"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

420 touches to 356 - no one out gets geelong

Won in the coaches box

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

It's been a very long time since Geelong have been kept under 400...

_________________
"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Sheesh, one budzy is enough ..don't you start Juddy&theKreuzers!

Well done all round, on-field and off.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Ba da boom!!!

_________________
"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

A week is a long time in football.

Ratts kicked Thompsons arse tonight. I just hope he can get the boys playing that style every week now as not many teams will beat us if we play that style of footy.

well coached ratts

Great coaching Ratten.

Now we beaten Cats (Our midfield beat cats:P )
We Flogged Dogs
Lost to saints by only 9pts.
Pies 1-1

We have nearly beaten all the top 4 teams now.

Ratten has not just brought us to the finals, but has given us a chance of going a long way in the finals.
If we play like we did tonight, who knows.

For the rest of the season how about we stop these NEGATIVE ratten posts, enjoy the rest of the season and see what happens. We have waited years for this moment, enjoy it.

Ratts will be coach in 2010, so no point bagging out your coach.

Interesting that we have played really really well against Hawthorn, St Kilda and Geelong this year.

Could perhaps be a good sign for finals

And beaten Dogs and Brissy at Gabbatoir, and shoulda beaten Hawks. Makes those two shockers against Ess and Pies all the more amazing. Whatever Ratts & co. did tonight..............just keep doing it !!!

I am still not totally sold on Ratts....

but I am one of those who feels he should be reviewed AT THE END OF THE YEAR
It sounds like a total cliche, but it is so true.

We will finish 7th, and if we can beat Port and get a bit of percentage (maybe even beat the Crows) we *might* finish 6th.
In my opinion that is above reasonable expectations, and is a glowing credit to Ratts.

Did he outcoach tonight? Yes.
Whether he is a great coach yet, it is not relevant. He is coaching well enough.
The argument that he is learning on the job and bringing us down - that has obviously been debunked if we finish 6th or 7th. That is a great result coming from the wooden spoon territory not long ago.
Judd or no Judd regardless.

People have bitched and moaned too much. Sure we have not always played to expectations and standards,
but overall we have won when we needed to.
Ugly Wins, Honourable losses, who cares. They call count and at the end of the year if you are in the top 8 then you are a good team.
The fact that the competition is so close this year shouldn't be taken as a sign that the comp is flowered - it should emphasize our achievement in grinding our way to the top half.

There are still concerns:
- Is Lappin coasting and does he really deserve his job?
- Are we mentally tough enough?
- Do we feel comfortable playing attacking football consistently?
- Is Fev losing his edge and will he be our premiership full forward?
- With the GC coming in, will we be able to pick and develop a key forward fast enough?

But in all fairness, the question of Ratten needs to be put to bed until next season.

THIS SEASON IS A TICK FOR RATTEN
Whether you believe in him or not long term, he has done more this year than Matthew SUPERMAN Knights, or Chocco, and he has towelled up Michael CHOSEN ONE Voss twice.
We might have a team of number one picks, but we still have one of the most inexperienced teams in the league.
Ratten has achieved what he needed to this season, period.

and if only people could accept this

_________________
Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod