That's very nice of you. Was a great example of a well considered argument though. ETA - Embarrassment for who exactly? Please tell me you don't believe that Dayne Beams on his own proves that Collingwood kids are better developed?

Armfield should never be allowed to play as a loose man until he improves his disposal. I can't believe a runner was sent out to tell Armfield to play loose. A runner was sent out weren't they?

I don't mind trying him there. He's failed to have an impact everywhere else including the forward line (bullants and seniors) so why not give him a shot?

Except how you feel you feel about our repetitive wins against a side at a similar stage of development (Brisbane)

You take every opportunity today....

... and you do that by maximising yourself to be prepared for it...

... were hit n miss...

and we are hit and miss cos we have hit and miss people in charge...

this is not a potshot at the club....

the club is a drone..... people push its buttons to get the show on the road on behalf of the club for us each week.. season.. year...

so its important that the people who are pushing the buttons for our netertainment/ escapr/ passion whatever you want to call this... are the right people... maximising the club for our enjoyment... not to hire mates... and keep it all buddy buddy for themselves...

Ratts can get the job... if he earns the job.. and hes the best candidate for the job....!!!,... just like everybody else...!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Everyone wants what you want Synbad. Even Ratts. Even THomson and lyon.
A fantastic plan to take the ball out from a behind.
Sublime ball movement through the corridor.
A bunch of equally skilled forwards leaving space for one another.
All over intensity that gives our opposition no space and time to implement their own ideas.
Great kicks on all our players on both sides of their bodies.

We all want it and i appreciate your point of view. I understand that you want it all and want it yesterday. The truth is it isnt that easy. You only have to look at one constant with the teams in this league that can get remotely close to your ideal and that is they all have mature lists. They all have a great bunch of players between the age of 23-27. THey all have great players drafted when we were not drafting.

You want to judge Ratts now. I want to judge him at the end of next season. Even then i will judge him on a timeline i believe is realistic not against those who coach mature lists.

This is not to say i will watch him make mistake after mistake without comment but i will have what i believe a realistic approach to what i am criticising.

eg say we we all followed geelong. we kick in short to the pocket. The next kick is a kick down the line. There is a contest. It hits the ground and time and time again our bloke Ling, Bartlel, ablett, Corey and chapman outmuscle anyone that comes near the contest. We run off with it. Are kickouts a problem?

Thats where i believe maturity comes into play. Lately due to our players not being switched on, not being totally over their game and not being mentally mature and learned that any plan Ratts comes up with is not really given a chance to work.

All coaches appointed in the eight were gambles except Malthouse. All were given time.

Again i stress i want what you want. I like some others are prepared to let things run their course. Let things have a chance to work.

with a response like that, no wonder we're now up to page 80. Punter 22, your question still stands

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

There are gambles and then there are culculated gaambles...

Ratts has not done his apprentiship....

He got the job given to him even though he had been away from the game for four years...

Let me explain something to you.... the last 5 or 6 years have seen more changes than the previous 10.. and before that the previous ten had seen more changes than the previous 30... and the previous 30 had seen more changes than the previous century...
The game has been changing so swiftly since Ratten had been coaching Norwood in the second division of the Eastern Suburban league that he wouldnt have a clue what is going on ... and it shows..

Now which other coach had been away for so long and is now coaching without an acceptable base???

You cannot ignore that fact!!!!

I always maintain that i have seen literally squllions of coaches fail in my lifetime.....so it cant be an easy caper... and when at a time like this... where footy is so complex.. we have the foolish desire to hand the job over to a guy who is NOT ready... and surround him with other guys who are NOT ready.... you have wasted years on your doormat....!!!!

Simple!!!

You just have to think about the odds.. and then the circumstances.

Noone wants Ratts to succeed more than me.... but this is not a Hans Christian Anderson fairytale.... its Australias elite professinal dog eat dog sport... and were in a different era... an era where you have to be a trailblazer and do everything right to succeed.

Not the old Carlton.. "we dont pay our coaches much cos frankly theyre not that important" of the past... cos really.. that was believe it or not one of our mantras....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

and club everybody does want what i want... but you have to plan for ultimate success.. and do everything right ... and then have a bit of lock...

were just hoping for alot of luck......cos we havent planned and done everything right....

KK... ive given you 10 reasons off the top of my head why ratts isnt the one....

and ill add this as to why he isnt the one...

He aint the best there is!!!... and for us thats not good enough!!!!


hows that???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

If you think that's what people who aren't baying for Ratten's blood are saying, then you've realistically excluded yourself from any rational debate.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I have no problem with that sentiment at all.

It's the way things are being stated that I have a problem with, and the distorted reality some posters seem to occupy which leads them to rant and rave.

I feel that Ratten needs until at least mid-season next year before any firm decisions are to be made about his tenure. Of course, at the same time, it would be remiss of the Club to not keep an eye out for any available coach who may be considered better.

I've said that several times through this thread.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Synbad thinks I agree with him. Rational debate went out the window a long time ago.

+1

Ratts is on the right path!!

Understands the importance of having good veratile rucks.
Understands the importance in rolling many numbers through the midfield.
Understands the importance of having good long kicking HBF's
Understands the importance breaking zones through the use of handball.
Understands the importance of protecting the corridoor.
Understands the importance of mixing it up forward.

When we have played our best footy, those points above have hit their mark (and more)
When we loose we have failed to achieve those broad parameters.

Players will make you as much as they will break you.

The hard line stance they have taken with Scotland, Stevens, Russel, Yarran, Armfield, Austin, Browne, etc. are a means of ensuring we hit these basic parameters more often than not. When we do, the upcurve will be far more steady and enjoyable.

Is he the right man, remains to be seen. Is he the wrong man, also remains to be seen!!!

He knows what has to be done, he has made very good inroads in areas including development, defensive pressure, and our ruck stocks. Lets hope he works out our forward structure to become a very unpredictable potent weapon, that we all know it can be..

Go Blues!!!!!!!!!!

you want reasons why rattens is doing an okay job, you cant handle the reasons why ratten is doing an okay job

carlton sits 7th on the ladder with 108%
carlton is ranked 4th highest offensive
carlton is ranked 5th highest in total quarters won
carlton is ranked 4th lowest in average losing margin
carlton is ranked 4th highest in average winning margin
carlton is ranked 6th lowest in defensive score

you dont want to believe them, you dont want to read them, and of course you wont say its becuase of ratten as coach.

but they are the facts about carltons year to date.

and we have achieved all this, without playing great football all year. our best is as good as anyways, but we can still play howlers. hell even our howlers show impovement. in years gone by, our loses to both Essendon* and collingwood this year, would have hit the 100 mark, they didnt.

now, would all of you naysayers shut up, the proof is there, and can quickly be seen by all and sundry using the interactive ladder on the afl website. there are probably a heap more stats i could find if i could be arsed, but the debate about ratten as coach is rubbish.

will ratten be the answer, who knows, only time will tell.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

What debate? Tell us why BR is the man and why 7th spot is about where we should be right now.......because we wouldnt want to set the bar higher now, after all, we've come from a long way back and wer'e still suffering the effects of the Pagan years and the draft penalties, and poor recruiting and Hamill jumping ship and having our gameplan (remember, this was a time when they existed at carlton) passed on to ess on the eve of the 93 and Nicholls knocked out by Balme.
Memo to Kernahan. We are carlton...flower the excuses, we're sick of them. get professional of flower off

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

wow, 80 pages. amazing.

Really dangerous to wait that long KK.
The best clubs act before things turn to shit- they read the state of play when there is enough firm evidence to make a call.. We really need to stay ahead of the game here, and by waiting another 12 months may mean we in fact wait a whole lot longer to becoming a top 2 side.

A loss next week and it'll be 180.

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Lawrence Lawrence, The man who knows all the rackets and all the racketeers!

Don't you read?

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Fair enough. Like I said, it would be remiss of the Club not to be constantly weighing up the situation, especially in regards to who may be available.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

imagine the pitchforks!!!

what i want to know is who is our CHF? I know everyone has had a go there this year, it looks to be out of setanta or kruezer (when warnock comes in to the side)....i think?

oh and the kick ins, they're terrible.

but i think the jury is definately still out - if there is no finals though, especially after today's results.......ouch!

The Richard Pratt mantra was "find the best and get him/her. If the best is available, then they are not the best".

Is Ratten the best, that is the question that needs to be answered. And many of us will never know whether he is.

However, given the ineptness of some performances this year, I have my doubts.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky