My Take

Our team when we play man on man, is fantastic and when we zone ordinary. That is like all young teams until they gell together and know exactly what their team mates are doing. We will slowly get better than this. Short term if you were only going for wins, you would play man and we would win more of these games, BUT, long term and to eventually get number 17 we need to be able to master the zone ( and zone variables) to be a real contender in all conditions, and to counter different tactics other teams use during games. At the moment we can play man and maybe one or two zone variables poorly. Teams like St Kilda and Geelong have a set style but can play 3 or more variables of that structure if things aren't working, and they can change their structures during a game ( on the fly), whereas we cannot...

We also struggle at breaking the zone and for the same reasons ( and a few poor footskills), teams are able to defend against us easily at the moment, bar a few games where we risked the run and carry through the zone and it payed off to some extent. I think Ratten wants us to kick our way through the zone ( great), but again we just need to know our structures inside out, and execute accurately and it will eventually come. Might be 2 or 3 years though.

Faith in the coach. It is much harder to have faith in a new coach ( like ratten) than it is to have faith in a Malthouse or a Wayne Bennet ( look at the dragons this year), only difference is they have a worse list on paper, but 110% belief in the coach and what he tells them to do. At the start of the year they couldn't score a try as he focused on building their defence and now they have it all. BUT, it is so easy to have blind faith in a man who has 6 premierships in 20 years, plus numerous other accolades. With Rattten, just as it was with Clarkson and thompson etc, the only way the players start to really believe is gradually as they begin to see the results. When they get under pressure and still hold their formations and don't revert back to old ways, or if they are losing and are able to change structures mid game and turn it round. So with Ratten the team belief won't happen over night, but gradually. With Bennett, you see a team who lost belief in their old coach when they had the best list in the NRL (Nathan Brown), get the best coach in the game, and have immediate belief and CONFIDENCE in everything Bennett says.

For anyone who has played here, how many times have you trained all week where the whole team is on the same page, you go into the game knowing exactly which structure to play. You know, Which rotations the forwards will be leading in etc and you get onto the field and it seems like noone is doing anything like you practiced. A bit of pressure and everyone reverts to 'man' footy or their old defaults. Well it is just the same for the pro's except they are versing teams that CAN stick to their structures and plans better, casue they have been together longer and are now starting to know their plan inside out.

I think all is good if I am correct, and Ratten is ensuring that our team doesn't just go after easier wins ( by reverting to man and avoiding the zone plan). Eventually the players will start to realise and BELIEVE in it. The ones that don't believe and don't sacrifice their preferred style for the benefit of the team, don't play. Simple.

Imagine if we get rid of the coach, and the new guy has a completely different plan. Thats puts our last 2 years of development in the bin and we we effectively go back 2 years. OR, we revert to man and win more games immediately but in high pressure or crutch games when other teams change up their attack etc, we will only have one style of play to implement. Which means against the good teams, YOU LOSE.

The negative is, if I am wrong and Ratten has no plan like everyone here says. Then eventually everyone will lose faith, we will ahve to get rid of him, and the last few years will be wasted. If we do remove Ratten the MC must get a high profile, experienced coach and not someone who is unproven again. Just becasue of the Bennet factor (IE Immeidate belief in the game plan and coach), at least then the players will have immediate belief in the new game plan and the turnaround period will be shorter.


By bet is on the former. Go BLUES!

(PS: FYI, last night was the most disappointed and angry I have been watching a Carlton match for years. It hurts when you start to let yourself believe we are further ahead than what we are.... Many more of these to come me thinks....

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Window = Open

excellent post

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I've ben hinting at this for a long time now.

Put it this way, if it was the likes of Juddy and Simmo gobbing off at Ratts, I'd be concerned.

Stevo and Scotland? Pfft. One gone, the other going.

This game was gone when we only picked two AFL quality forwards (Fev and Eddie).

Not sure that is anyones' fault as most of the possible alternatives are either injured / recovering from injury / underdone / whatever.

It makes a massive difference. Last time the Pies had most of their forwards out and we flogged them. This time it was just a straight reversal of circumstance.

If we have a competing kp forward (ie Setanta) and a pressuring running forward (ie Garlett) next time we play them, we'll probably beat them.

Not saying that either Setanta or Garlett by themselves are the answer, but in the three games they have played in together this season (WC, Bris, Stk) we mostly looked more multi-dimensional going into attack.

Confidence in forward options tends to make a difference to the quality of disposals heading into the 50.

We expect too much of the 18yo Yarran and Fish is long gawn.

Buzz...

I normally respect your posts but your post is a bit contradictory isn't it? You start by not blaming Ratten for the loss but then you proceed to basically point out flaws in Ratten's coaching such as his poor first 1/4 in which we were, as you point out correctly, smashed at the clearances/set ups, make comments about serious re-organisation of the coaching structure etc etc. And to top it off, you say "that's where Ratten has to start taking the blame".

By admitting that, you are implying that Ratten is at least partly to blame for last night's loss. I think you might be a bit shocked, dazed, confused after what was served up last night and I don't blame you.

I think it was a combination of reasons; to not blame Ratten but then point out things where he and his staff had control over like structures and set-ups which failed dismally on the night is blaming Ratten is it not?

If only Swann and Kernahan could make a statement like Arsene did with Adebayor...

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Bloody oaf, yes. I think we are as thick as two bricks at times. It's as if we a playing in a league consisting of one side. The only really progressive thing we've done is the Irish experiment and Melbourne did that first anyway. It's almost as if we do things out of a vague fear and try to disguise it as pragmatism.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Terrible performance. Only Kreuzer and Betts turned up to play. The rest just got swamped and couldnt think their way out of very basic problems, or were way down on effectiveness. Still we've been carrying 4-5 not very good players for a while now.

As for posters jumping from last night performance into a whole heap of other issues - well, we read it every loss.

re: Armfield. To not give a second year player who has played 20 games and shown a lot a 2 year contract would be remiss in their duties. We still have 10-12 gaps on the list and he's not one of them.

I think last night was one of those nights that not even the players can explain....

I've never seen Judd so out of it before...Maybe that rumour of someone proposing to Twiggles has some legs, for only a woman can have such an effect on someone so professional.

You gotta feel for North next Friday night (at the dome), there not going to want to come out to play.....

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

you saying it could be worse than last night's game?

channel 7 should think twice before airing it then.

rubbish
The guy cant kick
Sure I reckon his been good value given the Judd deal but he doesnt deserve a 2 year contract.
He has been dropped in a side that doesnt have much depth and is 23 in December.
Another stupid decision that we are getting expert at.

Stevens contracted to 2010. Perfect example

Embarrassing last night.
Poor disposal by hand and foot.
We were not switched on early and game was effectively over at quarter time.
Many of our players are simply not up to AFL standard.
We panick at times and dont know what to do with the ball, our disposal into the forward line was disgraceful and Fev cannot be blamed for what happened.
Last night showed that we are still a long way off the mark.

Jamison, Stevens, Setanta and Robinson have to be brought back immediately.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Collingwood wernt fantastic ....

But we were a wasteland of AFL footy..

We just lack nouse.. ideas... instinct... run... fight..

pretty sure they will blame the players...

Ratts is so put of his depth were going backwards in a hurry...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

i had to laugh at didak in the post match interview saying they were happy they played 4 good quarters of football

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

My last game before I head back to China and very interesting to see a game live two weeks in a row.

The same Carlton that turned up for the first half against Sydney arrived again tonight. We are so reactive and negative. It is very clear that we are still a long way to go in our development.

Skill Level
Disposal by foot is embarrassingly bad. Scotland was one of the man offenders, kick and hope. Chief offenders - Scotland, Grigg, Russell, Carrots, Bower, Bentley.
Professional footballers should be better.

Coaching Structures
This is tough one. We look to have no system the way we play. The players seem to lack confidence in each other to the point where there is no plan. What do we do when this situation occurs? That situation? Some one also mentioned about being front and centre - I lost count of the times Collingwood had 2 - 3 players there with not a Carlton player in sight. I don't have enough information about what is going on inside the coaching panel but the indications are not good. Have difficulty thinking that Lappin as forward coach is the answer? Players do not block to create space for the ball carriers. Even simple shepherding is not done consistently. We have full time professional coaches that is what they do. I think we need a better return. Ratts says they review each week. If so why is the same thing being seen each week? Kicking to two/three on one when other players are clear is blatantly obvious when watching the game live. There are still some basics of footy and we do not do many of them well. Our three recent victories do not speak volumes for the opposition.
We have a young list but are they being developed as well as they could be?

What changes (not just in players being dropped or promoted) if any will we see?

Players
If the players cannot/will not do what the coaches want them to do, mark the card - Heath Scotland, good bye.
Liked Austin, AJ, Yarran, Eddie, Bower, Keuz, Murph, all busted their guts for the club.
Thought Thornton was brave and also busted a gut. Have been a critic but did well tonight.
Gibbs - something is wrong - maybe the kid is injured or worn out, was very ordinary tonight. Jogged when should have made position to receive or provide options, this happened too often. Was also noted by people sitting near me.
Big Harmy - did some good things but dropped too many sitters. Worth persevering with though.
Fish - sorry mate, not part of the future
Carrots - ditto
Houla - ditto
JR - tries but doesn't hurt the opposition
Bentley - ditto
Fev looked injured.


Passion
We are far too nice.
No grunt, no fierceness in the tackle.

Depth
Do we have any?
Who can come in that will add value?
Setanta would have been very handy tonight and AW (another with below average foot skills ), Maybe Robbo?
I suspect there isn't much more.


That it from me - on the jet plane and ...

Go Blues!

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

first of all i apologise IF i get melodramatic in this post. I'm hurting and it's a hard pill to swallow losing at anytime, lettle own against collingwood.

Ill also prologue this post by also saying i know the pain will pass, and by next week when we beat the kangaroos we'll all get online and applaud how good the team is etc, but is that half the problem? Are we too content with beating the crap sides to make the 8? Are we accepting mediocrity too easily? If the arrogance is back at carlton, then why are we so ready to ignore what happened last night on the field and blame the coach. The foot skills alone, were as bad as the melbourne and port adelaide match the other week.

I dont see how ratten etc are responsible for the loss, yes the forwardline (or lack of) was awful. But IMO we had bigger problems than that. Footskills were as bad as ive seen, and decision making was just as bad. That responsibility falls to the players, and its their blame to carry IMO.

People may know my posts as generally optimistic, often deluded from the reality because my love for the carlton football club is such that i cant/refuse to turn on the club, or shit-can the players personally.

But last night hurt me. . .badly.

So much so that i didnt even wait to get home before jumping onto TC. I was on the train and whipped out the blackberry to vent my sheer anguish as to what i'd witnessed.

I've been a member since 1995. And have missed about 4 vic based games since the turn of the century so as a 20year old i've seen some shockers from carlton, but memories from my childhood associate carlton with success and glory.

Without getting too over the top and emotional i'd like to share something personal.

As a teenager i went through severe depression, and there were times i literally didnt want to wake up in the morning. BUT knowing that the blues were playing on the weekend, and the opportunity to go with my best mate and my dad and share my/our love for the club gave me a reason (often the only reason i had) to keep going. It was all i had to look forward to every week. I had mates, money, girlfriends etc but footy made/makes me happiest.

Now the past 2seasons i've joined the cheersquad and am loving being a feral supporter of the club i love so much. And i love being able to argue with all the anti-stevo, anti-ratten, and even anti-fev supporters. it's so much fun week in- week out dedicating every waking moment thinking about carlton.

Last night i cried. . Yep proud to say it. . .i cried for the carlton footy club. As i sat and watched the majority of the cheersquad leave the game early and give up on the lads, i turned around and saw 3 normally loyal, normally positive guys singing the collingwood themesong, saying
''f*ck them, they dont deserve our support''

To those guys, whose names i wont mention, as they're well known around the club i say 'bullshit!'

yes these guys get paid alot of money, yes we pay to see them, but they're wearing a carlton jumper, therefore even if they disgrace it, i'll forgive them.

I think it was bluegirl72 who posted earlier that its all good, dont get carried away and we'll still make the 8. Thankyou for that post. It calmed me down from making a post which would have been full of personal attacks on the players who i love.

Ill just throw in one little backhand at a player to even out the soppy crap ive posted.

People bag nick stevens for his lack of defensive pressure. . .to those people i ask. . No i BEG you to watch marc murphy live at a game against a half good side and see how close to his opponent he gets and how hard he chases.

I love MM. . .he's a star, but its double standards to applaud his games every week when people scapegoat stevo for the exact same thing, the fact he's young shouldn't exempt him from criticism.

/rant

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Cuck Follingwood

If that was a job interview...id employ you on the spot.

Teen Spirit, Can you play next weekend? i'd love that kind of passion to be shown out on the ground.

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Blue is the Colour, Football is the game...

I downloaded an excel spreadsheet with a ladder predictor at the start of the season and put in all my tips before the season started. As each round completes I've put the real results in and watch how the round 22 ladder changes.

I make changes as the season goes according to form, fitness etc. I had us down for a loss last night but still have us finishing 8th by the end of Round 22. So at this stage last night's result isn't that big a deal.

The Kangas game will be though. If we beat them and Melbourne we're just about signed, sealed and delivered in 2009! If we lose to the Kangaroos we'll be right on the knife edge.

That would be like us losing to Melbourne and missing out on special K...

There are games you cant lose...next week is one of those...

Put your money on it...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.