Haven't read any posts, apologies if I'm repeating stuff

First thing you noticed in the first quarter was that they were more switched on than us. They were harder at the ball/man, and subsequently won their fair share of possession early on in the game. So they got a lot of clearances and their forwards got a lot of supply. It could have been worse if they had have converted a few more chances.

Judd/Gibbs/Murphy struggled to get their hands on it and we were struggling when we did have the ball. Struggling to bring the ball out of defence and struggling to move the ball with any fluency.

Somehow when they won the clearance they seemed to have a loose man coming off a wing and pushing hard forward. Johnson was also pushing forward and Judd seemed to struggle to stay with him. Lots of supply for their forwards, I thought the defence held up fairly well in the first quarter given the way the ball came in.

When we had the ball from kickouts we were unable to move it with any system – there was very little movement and we would be forced into a short kick or a bomb down the line. Often the short kick didn’t quite hit the target and the ball would be turned over. So looking at it from the season’s perspective we are still having problems with kickouts. I thought it was the best zone we have come up against nearly all year, there was simply not much space for us to move in.

On the contrary we went back to the old habit of conceding two thirds of the ground – why do we continually do this? Surely our zone should be pressing up the ground as to force the opposition into a long bomb to a contest or a short kick where a turnover is possible. We allowed Collingwood to stroll up to the wing and have a choice of where to kick. Stop running back to defence and actually press up to the player with the ball. Surely you’d try to win the ball back in our forward fifty then let them have the chance to deliver it inside their fifty.

Our defence of their kickouts was woeful – in particular the amount of times Shaw was allowed to kick to himself – in an instant they were on the wing…I don’t know how many times they went coast to coast but there seemed to be little pressure or zone set up. Often Shaw would do the little chip then Prestigiacomo would put a block on Fevola to give Shaw more time. Tonight we gave them too much time and space while they closed us down at every opportunity.

When there was space for us to use we seemed too dumb to use it or not willing to run hard enough. Often two players would lead to the space so it made it harder to take the mark. One needs to drag his opponent back towards goal while the other pushes forward into the space. Once more Russell worked pretty hard to create an option along with Fevola and Kreuzer but more often than not our skill level was not up to the standard required.

Also a problem was the brick wall that was Collingwood’s defence. Shaw, Maxwell and sometimes Wood had a picnic dropping in front of Fevola and simply providing him no space. Often the player up the ground would be under so much pressure that they would still kick it to him. When the ball wasn’t marked by Shaw/Maxwell we were outnumbered at ground level which was frustrating all night – if we weren’t able to take the mark then surely we should have had numbers at ground level to lock the ball in. However too often it was swept out by Shaw. Fevola didn’t spit the dummy or give up – so he shouldn’t be copping it but I bet he is. I’m not sure how we will go against teams with similar defensive set ups…I suppose winning clean centre clearances would help but when we move it from defence and the opposition have time to flood it appears we will continue to struggle. I guess more work on Fevola dragging defenders with him and other players making space for each other. Also having more players at ground level so the ball isn’t swept away.

On occasions the ball should have been bombed in as we were able to isolate Kreuzer at the top of the goal square but the players seemed unable to realise the benefit of the long bomb – Joseph on one occasion had a shot and sprayed it. Hopefully with time they realise if Kreuzer is running towards goal in a one on one contest his opponent will more often than not lose him and Kreuzer will then be able to take a relatively easy mark. So there is a time and place for the penetrating kick to the top of the square.

The stats would indicate we had equal or more inside 50s than Collingwood – however the manner in which the ball entered each 50 meant that the stat doesn’t mean a lot. Collingwood utilised the space and had an open forward line where defenders would be turned around and have little chance. The defence handled it fairly well, with Thornton and Austin often being turned around but still able to get the spoil in.

We seem unable to kill the ball when it is bombed in to the top of the square – tonight Swan and Davis took advantage of us being unable to force a throw in or point, last week O’Loughlin took advantage. There needs to be greater effort made to push back and get a stoppage. You can’t give players like Davis an opportunity at ground level.

Tactically we need to work on kickouts – defensively and attacking, while also working on entry inside 50. Our zone when they bring it out of defence – stop running away from them and actually apply pressure. Don’t actually go man on man but don’t give them space to switch the ball or for players to lead up.

Besides the tactics a lot of it was simply a young team not turning up – you can’t blame the loss on one single thing. It’s a combination (IMO) of inexperience, poor coaching and still lacking depth. Ratten during the week mentioned how Maxwell had been zoning off very well – he knew what he was capable of but it is still hard to stop us from falling in to certain traps the opposition have in place.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Keep on guessing.

You obviously haven't gone to the Ratten thread. "Kidding themselves" is a national past time on that thread.

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

IMHO the key problem was that we let them play with loose man in defence (Shaw). This lead to double team when kicking to Fev plus drive from the backline forward. Disappointed that we could not find any way of stopping this - well and of course the disposals.....

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TC suffers from the social media illness - the death of respect and constructive discourse by keyboard.

and who let them keep playing a lose man in defense? Buckley, Laidley maybe

Too many lightweights, not enough footy players.

Also, I know he wont get criticised as everyone adores him, but.... When will Chris Judd play an outstanding game against a finals calibre team? I know he was brilliant in the Brisbane game up there but it seems to me that whenever Carlton plays a finals calibre team at their best (even when we're at ours in previous weeks, as we were coming off the last quarter last week) - he seems to have a down game.

I dont blame Fev at all. The entry into the forward line was simply not up to the standard and he tried all night. Didn't give up. Just not his night and it's not all entirely his fault.

Good to see Kreuz play well. I adore this kid. I've seen all the games since the Eagles game (I got back from 3 years in the US the day we lost to Adelaide (didn't get to see it)) and he's the most impressive young tall I've seen in the AFL.

umm when we began they didn't have a lose man (Shaw was actually tagged to start with by Grigg) but we were woeful and needed to stem the flow. It helps if when you have the ball you hit a target!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

So what yiure basically saying right there is were a dogs chuck????

Yeah i know... ive been saying that for a long while.....

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Laidley is a poor man's Pagan. No skill. No record. No idea. He'd destroy us.

Buckley is a mealy mouthed, inarticulate egomaniac. Pagan was too but he had a grounding in U19s, Reserves and Senior team coaching and developed his skill along the way...though it was hopeless by the time he got to us.

Buckley's biggest worry is how much product to put in his hair, and even that confuses him most mornings.

Yeah and thats why Woosha, Williams, Lyon and Clarkson are all chasing him.

Oh wait compared to Lappin, Teague, Williams and Bradley you're right WTF man. seriously.

When teams zone against us we're in trouble. It isn't all tactics though as much as I think we don't have much of a system to move the ball inside 50.

Against teams who zone well and have lots of players like Shaw/Maxwell who read the ball coming in very well we will struggle.

Especially when we STILL don't have a reliable/multi pronged forward line. Kreuzer is too young to do it week in week out. Betts is the icing on the cake. Yarran has played 5 games. When Fisher doesn't mark it (a lot of the time) he's out of the contest. Not sure how we are meant to do well week in week out with such a forward line. Also when our midfielders are put under so much pressure that they cough the ball up and make poor decisions.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

I honestly dont know what anyone sees in Hammer.

I breathe a sigh of relief everytime Kreuz gets put back in the square.
Can't believe we were rucking against Wood and Dawes.... freakn embarassing

How dare Collingwood have better players than us?!?!

Who do they think they are?

Firstly:
You CANNOT blame Ratten for skill errors. The players and only the players are to blame for the disgraceful kicking that was on display tonight. If you cant kick you wont get far in this business and tonight did not look like we were getting anywhere fast. The 08 premiership winning team was built around excellent kicks of the ball. Geelong are built around excellent kicks of the ball. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HIT A TARGET!!!!!

Whilst many are claiming that there was no forward set up (which i agree AT TIMES) there were also many times that we'd get the ball and either bomb it long to a lose Collingwood player in the goal square or to Fev who had 3 men hanging off him. Again, surely the players are smarter than this. If you see two guys on Fev kick it to the guy that should be open. ( i emphasise should)

Run. You dont win games of footy without running. Ratten cant make the boys run. If you want to get the footy you run. We did not do this. Lots of waving and pointing but not much running. Comes down to lack of effort. Everyone can run. It's weather you're willing to bust a gut to get into space. The easier option is to stand still. We did that tonight.

Basic football smarts: Shit! Wasn't it funny how Collingwood had guys front and centre at every contest. And wasn't it funny how these guys managed to get the ball at most contests.
2 on 1's: Collingwood used there second man to hold off Kreuze or Fev while the 3rd man jumped up and took an uncontested mark. We on the other hand preffered to let the Collingwood guy jump and usually allow the ball to spill to the front where a collingwood player happened to be standing(see point above)

Grigg playing a defensive role in the forward line was stupid I THINK. The guy gets alot of ball around the packs and is generally a good user. It took a hell of a long time for him to finally get put in the middle. We lacked his bigger body and ball getting ability early. Instead he was standing on the half forward line watching the game.

Fisher may kick some goals but geez his pathetic attempts at chasing are laughable. Further, his inability to read the game and thus run to the wrong positions (defensively) really hurts us....funny how its always defensively that he is a liability.

Bentley: well when Didak is on one forward line and Bentley is on the other, well i no who i am more worried about.

Pretty dissapointing effort. Who is to blame? well i dont really care as long as someone puts there hand up and something changes. Tongihts effort wont get us very far in September.

On a lighter note; loved watching bower austin and Aj....thought that they were terrific all night.

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Loooook OUT!

It was worse live. Sad I stayed in Melbourne to watch it!

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

We will win next week.
Setant will be back,God willing,and maybe Walks...maybe a going for it Stevens...but we will win,and we'll be singing that song,and grinning,and hoping Essendon* lose...and believing that we will make the 8 this year..and next year..with Waitey,and Warnock,and a great bunch of 2nd to 4th year players... the sun wil be shining once more on our beloved boys.
next week will be great..relax..the future is almost here.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

I disagree coaching has a lot to do with our kicking. Do we practice our skills enough? Does the tactic of playing down the boundary put pressure on field kicking?

They play in finals and we dont cos theyre prepared by the coach????

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Its not too hard to admit is it Verbs. They were better than us on the night. The beat us fair and square. That Thomas even payed ok.

Last week the coach had a good game this week like the team he had a shocker. We made a mistake at the selection table and were outcoached and didn't seem to have planned for all contingencies. Our team selections don't seem to try and exploit the opposition or over their strengths.
Dean Laidley please come and join the MC and add that tactical nouse that we seem to be missing.
We have previously been told by the coach that the MC likes to go tall for tall etc, when there is a change to the team and several time this has been the process. However when we move away from the format at selection and bring in two talls for one tall ( Jamieson) and one mid sized running defender (Anderson) we lose the match. We make a mess of the match ups and don't play to our strengths.

Houlihan is not a half back flanker. IMO he plays his best football at half forward or wing. The backline should not depend upon him holding an opposition star.
Kreuzer can play either forward or ruck but not both. IMO we need another marking option up forward more than we need him in the ruck and we don't appear to have any other tall contested marking option on the list.
In the ruck we have Jacobs and Warnock coming back from injury so our ruck stocks are low and we don't have a lot of options. Hartlett and Austin are not ruck options so you would think that with Collingwood only having the one inexperienced ruckman Wood plus Brown we should have gone with Hampson and someone to add more run to the side and let either Austin or Kreuzer take the ruck and boundary throw ins.
That would have allowed us to leave Kreuzer up forward. Then with Fisher Houlihan Betts Fevola Yarran and resting onballers on the you should have a more potent attack.
We need someone to relieve Judd on ball and win centre clearances. If that is Carrazzo then he can't play a tagging role or half back. Settle the defence and if we need to cover a small fast forward who rotates on ball then select a player capable of playing that role and keeping pace with the opposition.
Collingwood likes to rotate their players all over the ground to drap their opponents to positions they are not used to playing. Some of our players cannot play this role. Robinson would appear a better selection against this team than Bentley as he can play a run with role go forward and or play on ball.