disappointing result but probably a reality check as to where we are at IMO.
Building phase with a lot of players stillunder development - and pretty shallow depth as we all know.

for me, it was the forward pressure -or lack of that hurt us - and they played a great zone defence with a 2nd man up against Fev and any of our forwards and we simply couldn't cope with it - is this a coach thing or ability -i'm not sure .... but we need more forward presence. it was frustrating though to see Maxwell on his own for most of the night!!!

Backline played ok (Bower, Thornton, and even Scotland), Kruze was great (easily our best) and Murphy had a bit of the ball.....then a bit of daylight.

We are building and developing (on and off the field) but clearly need to have all of our best available players up and running to be competitive.

2 years into a 5 year plan IMO - and tonight was a reasonable indication of how far we have to go.....

Still hurts like hell though!

and I hear that our longest serving captain has to keep reassuring the group that it will come good.

I dont have a problem with that.

Back to the post match...

Just exactly what was our forward line set up tonight? Anyone there who can tell? We don't get live games here very often and radio commentary is ordinary at best...

Was there any sort of plan?

Melvey is back so I guess we lost

in a funny sort of way i am proud tonight

we were smashed and we could not kick a @#$%&! goal to save ourselves and we had no one and yet we got within 3 (with fortune might have got closer - oh and Maclaren, gee when he dies we'll win flags by the dozen) - how the @#$%&! did that happen? It happened because these kids care - we lost, we were out-coached (gee um that might happen) and yet - the kids care, I mean really care. God love 'em!

and can we please win quickly so melvs pisses off again!

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

My bad night in a 12 point summary
1. disposal
2. centre breaks
3. skills
4. kicking into our forward line, well pretty much kicking in general
5. having collingwood supporters mouthing off when we get a point in the last quarter.
6. losing to collingwood
7. 4 goals in a game
8. our 3 goals came from eddie x2 and bentley
9. NOT RUNNING AT THE PLAYER
10. going backwards
11. our two best players imo kreuzer and bower respectively player 37 and 39 games. where were the other more experienced ones?
12. not leaving earlier

Last week we played man on man for a half of footy and thrashed a team that has played finals seven years in a row. In the first half we played a zone and were beaten.
So what happens tonight? We play a zone for all the game apart from about five minutes in the last quarter.
When we handball more than we kick, we lose. I didn't make that up.
When we kick more than we handball, we win. I didn't make that up either.
So why did we try and handball all night tonight? Maybe it was because we were under pressure every disposal bar a few. So what does that tell us? The ONLY way to get a disposal without pressure is to mark the footy and control the tempo. Did we try that even though it's how we beat the Bulldogs? Nup.
Towards the end we did mark the footy and played on, kicking about 70% of the time to an opposition player.
We are worse than ever at the 'kick it to Fev' attacking plan. Even Mick Malthouse has worked out that he can't play Fev one out.
Our kicking out after a point has been the worst part of our game for years. How can it be that we NEVER improve in this area?
Defending after we get a point is a joke. How can an opposition player recieve the footy in the back pocket and run to the 50 metre arc with nobody chasing him? Zone defence is how. We are shit at it and don't have the skills to do it. Ratts is reactive and not inclined to make changes anyway. Or it seems, learn from the stats of past wins and losses.
IMO, tonight was a classic reason why we have to trade Fev. As good as he is, we can't afford to just kick it to him all the time. If we don't have him, we will have to develop a genuine forward plan of attack. He is causing good players to do stupid stuff like bomb it to him when he is two or three out and there is a better option. Eddie, Houlihan, Gibbs, Judd, Murphy and Simpson were all guilty of doing it time and again tonight. Its DUMB footy to be so predictable.
On paper we should have won but having a plethora of #1 draft picks doesn't work if they have no plan B and Plan A isn't working.
Obviously having a crack at fourth spot wasn't enough incentive for the boys to be first to the footy tonight. If we finish outside the eight at the end of the home and away, we haven't really improved. Eighth will be acceptable but they will have to come to play if they are to achieve it.
I'm going next week. I am expecting changes at the selectin table and a more variable game plan, based on owning the footy, playing more man on man and kicking it to Fev less often.
Go Blues. We have to win 3 more.
That's my spleen vented.

_________________
Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Thats right melv, he did! Fantastic player for us in his day! im not calling for his head or anything just cannot believe there was no plan b tonight.

Absolutely disgusted with tonights performance but as we always say and have for the past 7 years "theres always next week"!

FFS!

_________________
When you're a Jet you're a Jet all the way!

If we go backwards to a Pagan like coach like Laidley, or to a Ratten from two years ago like Buckley, then we have to accept a few more 3 and 4 and 5 wins a year for the next three years.

Why?

Hate friday night games...

All those points pretty much sums it up for me too.

Also as for your point about our players not running at the man with the football, I couldn't believe the number of time we did this. Is this an instruction from the coaching staff?? Baffling if it cos we allowed them time and space with the ball by running away from them and by the number of times our players did this I can only assume its a coaching direction. The Saints and Geelong always run at the man with the ball and apply pressure and their teammates push up to cover the loose man.

_________________
The glass is neither half full nor half empty. Rather the glass is twice as big than required.

You wont beat good teams with muppets like Hartlett, Bentley, Johnson etc....the gap in talent becomes too great vs the decent teams unless Fev and Judd have blinders and mask the problems.
There are about 8-10 players on the list who are not up to it....while Ratten lacks games day nous he isnt helped when the MC have given you three or four passengers for the night.

_________________
"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I disagree - so many times this strategy worked and we'd win the ball and about half forward give it straight back to them. I mean forget the rest, if you can''t hit a @#$%&! target you'll lose every week

add a stroppy FF and and a few mismatches and you'll lose by a lot. (say 9 goals)

oh

and add Johnson...sorry but really, Johnson....is

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

The effort and energy was there, we just lost at the selection table. Collingwood are an even team, there's not a lot of players who can't play footy at least a little bit. We took in a team with too many players who were either too inexperienced, or just not great footy players and both those types start to show cracks in tight contested games. Yarran, Chris Johnson, JR, Hartlett, Hammer, Bentley... that's just too many who for reasons of experience or quality can only put in 50:50 games. Some of them can always be in the team, but against collingwood you need some guys who just know the game a little better.

How many first year players did Collingwood have coming and in and playing a good role???

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I don't blame the players.. We were totally out-coached. They knew our every move before our own players. They had surely done their homework. And it showed. Bad luck boys but we must focus on unleashing hell on North next week, cause if we lose that, then we are in the shit.

Let me guess...

Stevens, Cloke and Hadley because they've been dropped...

You're such a lightweight.

how ordinary was our disposal tonight?? surely now the experiment with a few players is over. namely Hartlett, Bentley and Fisher. all not up to it. Johnson? i dont get it. can someone please tell me what he brings to the table? he is soft, too easily outmuscled, and his kicking aint all that!! esp from full back. how about a plan to counter the 18 man zone?? anyone?? our inability to change the game, was extremely frustrating. we did it last week to great effect, so why not this week?

_________________
i don't wanna spend my life explaining myself. Either you get it, or you don't- Frank Zappa

sorry but this is such shit

in recent times (say last seven years) they have played in finals - umm you know, finals, we've played for the spoon, umm you know wooden spoons, those things you wanted us to win., So yeah, their kids get it more than ours, I wonder why.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!