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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:30 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:08 pm
Posts: 505
Location: Melbourne
Cazzesman wrote:
A WORK IN PROGRESS! Ratts is a work in progress, Gibbs is a work in progress and the development of the Team list is a constant work in progress.


Maybe that's the problem.
The team is a work in progress: a lot of young players, a few passengers and very few experienced players who offer true leadership. Not settled or mature in a team sense.
At the same time, we have a coach who is a work in progress: strategy appears to be a bit hit and miss, team still don't seem to click after almost 2 seasons of the new coach's game plan. Is the game plan too complex, or too rigid?

You can get away with 1 out of 2 at any one time, but you'll struggle if you have both.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
keogh wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
keogh wrote:
Lose and we will be 8 and 9 because the way we are travelling I cant see us beating Collingwood.


Image

Turn that frown upside down and you will be so much more fun at parties. :thumbsup:

Regards Cazzesman




What happened when Steve Johnson, Stephen Milne, Nick Del Santo were disciplined :wink:

Your the clown for taking pot shots at posters Cazz
Still you must know more than me of course
Even about my own personality

By the way what smells funny

Clown shit

There you go Cazz
I am a real funster :lol:


Save your breath Keogh cos apparently everything is going smoothly at the club given that we're a work in progress and no-one knows how far back we've come from and we don't really know because we're not part of the inner sanctum blah blah.
With our steady as she goes development, we will win flags by 2012 in multiples because the other 15 clubs will not have improved. Please, other 15 clubs, remain on status quo cos we're coming and you guys are not allowed to develop. Cazz, if you think Keogh's a clown (and I dont BTW), you can join him at the circus as the great illusionist...all smoke and mirrors masking the real issue....we are flowering average side. Most commentators are now saying the same (Healy, Walls, Shaw...) but what would they know, they're not part of the inner sanctum blah blah

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:03 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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99prelim wrote:
......... Most commentators are now saying the same (Healy, Walls, Shaw...) but what would they know, they're not part of the inner sanctum blah blah


That's funny neither am I.

Just in case you missed it the 1st time.....I posted this a few pages back.

Of course they deserve criticism. Many here seem to think that I am afraid of any criticism of the Club. That is certainly not the case and never has been.

But there is a grand canyon of difference between criticism based on honest, common sense assessments and criticism based on personal agendas such as those never ending posts from Melvey.

It's not rocket science to realise that the Blues currently aren't a great team.


So Healy, Walls and Shaw are all telling us something blind freddy can see. Not exactly Nostradamous are they. They change their opinions on a daily basis so if you are relying on them for the latest info good luck.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:07 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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It really sucks being a Carlton supporter. Not only are we hopeless, the worst team in the league and going backwards fast, we're shit too.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:08 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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worse - Caz needs to find pictures so people can understand him!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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dannyboy wrote:
worse - Caz needs to find pictures so people can understand him!


I figure if I don't use my 1000 words there will be more left for Synbad to use :razz:

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:22 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6460
lily of laguna wrote:
keogh wrote:
We have possibly the best player in the comp

Due to his effort mainly we got over the line against a pathetic team in Freo

The effort against Richmond was ordinary won again through Judds first half as well as Shaun Griggs peformance in the first half .

Fevola is the clubs greatest strength and weakness. He got us over the line yet still doesnt chase at times yet he is allowed to get away with it because Ratten knows that He is so reliant to kick goals.

Yes we have a few injuries .Most teams do but what disturbs me is the lack of leadership out there and what the coaching staff except apart from Judd

A case in point. Gibbs received the ball and CHB metres in the clear and he had plenty of time to dispose the ball. He took too long he was tackled by Nahas the ball spilled out and a Richmond guy ran in and kicked the goal. The umpire had blown his whistle but didnt call the advantage and Nahas took the free. Whilst this was going on Gibbs had picked himself up and had walked 2 metres or so. Just gave up chasing.
In another case Gibbs was running to mark a ball with a tiggies player one metre behind him. If Gibbs had run hard at the ball and not dropped his head the opposition player would not have been able to touch the ball. Gibbs did the opposite and the ball was punched away.


On both occasions the runner was not sent out let alone Gibbs taken off the ground to be told what he should have done and that the club doesnt want players not doing the footy basics.

that is unacceptable. Forget inexperience that is a backward step.

This aint a Bryce Gibbs bashing exercise. Its evidence that things are not being done properly.

Fevola should have been sent away from the club for a month after his effort against Essendon*.
It isnt right that he is playing for the club. I am sure that 9 goals would have posters saying the opposite but it doesnt teach him anything.

With some of Houlihan's efforts on the weekend its laughable he gets a game
THe club goes about things the wrong way.
I have said this for a long time. If we are too soft on what is excepted on the field in the long run we will be worse not better off.

The Swans game this weekend is an interesting one
We should win but the Swannies are a proud disciplined club well coached and coming off a loss.
Lose and we will be 8 and 9 because the way we are travelling I cant see us beating Collingwood.



You are over simplifying the reasons why we won the games against Freo and Richmond. You made no mention of our midfield including Carrots and Gibbs scoring some great goals from around 50 and some great muscle work from JR and Grigg etc.

Your comments regarding Gibbs game against the Tiggies is interesting but a little shallow, Why wasnt he dragged or directly spoken to by the runner as you say? well there are many resons why this might not happen during play, certainly too many to list but lets just say the runner was busy at the time.

These errors occur all game long by almost all players at some point and are best dealt with in proper one on one meetings during the review process post game, gone are the days when runners carry instructions on what players should have done better during the game.

Positional changes and team structures, opposition match ups and interchange take care of most game day messages.

The footy basics as you put it are being highlighted to our players during the course of every week, one only has to read Hird's recent article on what goes on in players mind during the week and game day to realise what pressure they are under to perform.

For a young playing group that is just beginning to string some games and more importantly some victories together after so many bad losses over recent years we are doing quite well.

I find it strange that people expect us to go from being the competitions whipping boys to top 4 material so quickly.

Last year we stopped the rot, remembering we had the greatest losing streak looming in front of us, this year we are very likely to make the finals - that in itself is very impressive, doing it on the back of the 1 of the youngest playing groups both in games played and age is simply put....................

A Fine Effort!!!!!

Lets get behind our club and players, their hard work deserves some praise :clap: :clap:





Gibbs errors were from a lack of effort
you are taught as a junior to run hard chase not brake stride mark in front and dont drop your head. he does it too often.
Melbourne did nothing to Travis Johnstone for years. Now he is playing in the QAFL

Given our good draw if we dont make the finals we have failed as a footy club.
Simple as that


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6460
Cazzesman wrote:
keogh wrote:
Lose and we will be 8 and 9 because the way we are travelling I cant see us beating Collingwood.


Image

Turn that frown upside down and you will be so much more fun at parties. :thumbsup:

Regards Cazzesman




Perhaps Fevola should wear the clown suit given how he plays FOR THE TEAM SOMETIMES

Given your vast knowledge explain how
1 Fevola's selfish self centred acts effect the team environment

2 How Houlihan's often lame attempts to get the contested footy effect the team environment.


And what our coach has done about it.


You go on about how posters who just talk shit without backing up with facts.


Well gives us whats going with those 2 situations cazzeman


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:06 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
In the last 9 matches (rnds 7 -15), how many have left you impressed with Carlton?

For me only the Brisbane game in Rnd 11 and St Kilda in Rnd 12 were impressive performances - and they weren't entirely emphatic either, and I don't think I'm unreasonable. Of the wins in that period, WC, Freo, Richmond are bottom sides, and we were hardly imposing, and the win against Collingwood was when they were decimated by injury and we played uninspired footy.

Even a fine win at the Gabba was against a backline missing 4 good players, and we nearly got rolled.

We are very average right now, and the existence of 5 terrible teams, plus Hawthorn's and Port's awful form is keeping us in reasonable shape ladder-wise.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Posts: 28377
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Have to agree. We are pathetic. I think we're probably the worst team in history. Aboslutely hopeless.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:23 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9115
Location: Nth Fitzroy
You talked me into it. We are rubbish.

Now what?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:33 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 417
Gibbs errors were from a lack of effort
you are taught as a junior to run hard chase not brake stride mark in front and dont drop your head. he does it too often.
Melbourne did nothing to Travis Johnstone for years. Now he is playing in the QAFL

Given our good draw if we dont make the finals we have failed as a footy club.
Simple as that[/quote]


It is easy to highlight some mistakes and errors in everyones game if thats what you want to do, Judd on the weekend failed to hit targets and allowed opposition players to run free with the ball at times.

If you fail to see the good things Gibbs did against the Tiges (he was named in the best) and focus on the odd mistake then no wonder you are down on the blues.

In fact go over the season and see what sort of effort Bryce has made to the team, sure he could do better, who couldnt?

This doesnt reflect badly on Ratts or gibbs for that matter, it is just the reality of professional sport.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:49 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
verbs wrote:
Have to agree. We are pathetic. I think we're probably the worst team in history. Aboslutely hopeless.


:screwy:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:01 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
club29 wrote:
You talked me into it. We are rubbish.

Now what?


Ask Melvey :thumbsup:

Just providing a semi-objective assessment. Don't see why acknowledging our current averageiosity :oops: should be an issue.

We do have some handy "outs" at the moment, and a couple of good kids in the wings, so I see some upside.

Just not playing good footy at the mo, and pointing at the ladder don't make it so :smoking: :oops:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:09 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 417
keogh wrote:
lily of laguna wrote:
keogh wrote:
We have possibly the best player in the comp

Due to his effort mainly we got over the line against a pathetic team in Freo

The effort against Richmond was ordinary won again through Judds first half as well as Shaun Griggs peformance in the first half .

Fevola is the clubs greatest strength and weakness. He got us over the line yet still doesnt chase at times yet he is allowed to get away with it because Ratten knows that He is so reliant to kick goals.

Yes we have a few injuries .Most teams do but what disturbs me is the lack of leadership out there and what the coaching staff except apart from Judd

A case in point. Gibbs received the ball and CHB metres in the clear and he had plenty of time to dispose the ball. He took too long he was tackled by Nahas the ball spilled out and a Richmond guy ran in and kicked the goal. The umpire had blown his whistle but didnt call the advantage and Nahas took the free. Whilst this was going on Gibbs had picked himself up and had walked 2 metres or so. Just gave up chasing.
In another case Gibbs was running to mark a ball with a tiggies player one metre behind him. If Gibbs had run hard at the ball and not dropped his head the opposition player would not have been able to touch the ball. Gibbs did the opposite and the ball was punched away.


On both occasions the runner was not sent out let alone Gibbs taken off the ground to be told what he should have done and that the club doesnt want players not doing the footy basics.

that is unacceptable. Forget inexperience that is a backward step.

This aint a Bryce Gibbs bashing exercise. Its evidence that things are not being done properly.

Fevola should have been sent away from the club for a month after his effort against Essendon*.
It isnt right that he is playing for the club. I am sure that 9 goals would have posters saying the opposite but it doesnt teach him anything.

With some of Houlihan's efforts on the weekend its laughable he gets a game
THe club goes about things the wrong way.
I have said this for a long time. If we are too soft on what is excepted on the field in the long run we will be worse not better off.

The Swans game this weekend is an interesting one
We should win but the Swannies are a proud disciplined club well coached and coming off a loss.
Lose and we will be 8 and 9 because the way we are travelling I cant see us beating Collingwood.



You are over simplifying the reasons why we won the games against Freo and Richmond. You made no mention of our midfield including Carrots and Gibbs scoring some great goals from around 50 and some great muscle work from JR and Grigg etc.

Your comments regarding Gibbs game against the Tiggies is interesting but a little shallow, Why wasnt he dragged or directly spoken to by the runner as you say? well there are many resons why this might not happen during play, certainly too many to list but lets just say the runner was busy at the time.

These errors occur all game long by almost all players at some point and are best dealt with in proper one on one meetings during the review process post game, gone are the days when runners carry instructions on what players should have done better during the game.

Positional changes and team structures, opposition match ups and interchange take care of most game day messages.

The footy basics as you put it are being highlighted to our players during the course of every week, one only has to read Hird's recent article on what goes on in players mind during the week and game day to realise what pressure they are under to perform.

For a young playing group that is just beginning to string some games and more importantly some victories together after so many bad losses over recent years we are doing quite well.

I find it strange that people expect us to go from being the competitions whipping boys to top 4 material so quickly.

Last year we stopped the rot, remembering we had the greatest losing streak looming in front of us, this year we are very likely to make the finals - that in itself is very impressive, doing it on the back of the 1 of the youngest playing groups both in games played and age is simply put....................

A Fine Effort!!!!!

Lets get behind our club and players, their hard work deserves some praise :clap: :clap:





Gibbs errors were from a lack of effort
you are taught as a junior to run hard chase not brake stride mark in front and dont drop your head. he does it too often.
Melbourne did nothing to Travis Johnstone for years. Now he is playing in the QAFL

Given our good draw if we dont make the finals we have failed as a footy club.
Simple as that



Just on the effort Gibbs has put in this year, of the 15 games we have played he has been listed in the best 11 times, that itself would be an indication that his development is going fairly well, wouldnt you say Keogh?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
I reckon we have almost reached our nadir if we tank from now we could make sure we dont finish in the eight :donk:

Please yes seventh is fairly average in a 16 team competition objectively - 7 th is bloody good when you havent made the finals in 8 years and you have one of the youngest lists in the AFL

Obviously we wuill have higher expectations next year but making the finals this year would be a very good result

Dont agree our only impressive performances have been two over the last few weeks

How cant you be impressed last week - we won without jacobs Setanta stevens scotland waite warnock walker wiggins bower austin browne bentick cloke yarran after coming from a 5.5 day turnaround after winning at Subi -

I know some of them are out for form reasons rather than injury and some may not ultimately be good enough but it still is 14 senior players not playing and we still won - in the last 8 years we would have lost every game we played with that calibre of player out of the side - imagine the hysteria if the carringbush or hawthorn had that many out they would be singing it from the rooftops - and after we beat them didnt the Carringbush go into overdrive about injuries


Lets get a sense of perspective -


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
Posts: 5913
Location: Melbourne
When your starting-point is "appalling", you pretty much have to pass through "average" in order to get to "excellent".

2002/3/4/5/6/7: Appalling.

2008: below average.

2009: slightly above average.

2010:

2011:

2012:

Not that hard to fill in the gaps, providing we don't stuff things up.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:44 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Location: at the Bay Oval....
:?: Am I the only one who thinks this thread is average right now ?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:46 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6460
Gibbs reads the game very well
He knows where to run to receive the ball
He also knows how to create space when has the pill
He has great footy smarts

But so has Travis Johnstone who had long suffering Dees supporters sucking down the Pimms when he was the number one draft in 1990 whatever.


All this crap about Gibbs being the best player one day in the comp blah blah is shit unless he starts taking overhead marks and chasing hard ALL THE TIME when he doesnt have the pill.

Bit like Stevo hey.

A guy who thought his sublime kicking skills and footy nous would have him survive the cut throat nature of AFL.

And we know where he is playing at the moment

And how many times has Stevo got in the best whilst wearing the navy blue

The thing is Gibbs is 20. He has time on his side to work on those aspects of his game.If it doesnt improve in those areas he will be washed up at 30 just like travis Johnstone and Nick Stevens


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:21 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 80
keogh wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
keogh wrote:
Lose and we will be 8 and 9 because the way we are travelling I cant see us beating Collingwood.


Image

Turn that frown upside down and you will be so much more fun at parties. :thumbsup:

Regards Cazzesman




Perhaps Fevola should wear the clown suit given how he plays FOR THE TEAM SOMETIMES

Given your vast knowledge explain how
1 Fevola's selfish self centred acts effect the team environment

2 How Houlihan's often lame attempts to get the contested footy effect the team environment.


And what our coach has done about it.


You go on about how posters who just talk shit without backing up with facts.


Well gives us whats going with those 2 situations cazzeman



can you also answer why stevens, yarran and betts are not fit enough and are allowed to get away with it. why it took 15 weeks to pick anderson and why bentley was drafted. why we appointed an inexperienced coach for an inexperienced group fo players. why fev is 10 kilos heavier than last year when he kicked 99 goals. would really like to know the reasons.


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