I tend to agree here. I certainly can't explain the excitement and optimism shared by many in regards to our current performances and even the amount of improvement left in our side. I agree there is upside but I just dont think it may be tapped with undeniable certainty (for a number of reasons)

Providing some background on some of the arguments that can stem from this topic requires time I dont have whilst posting at work (hope my boss ain't around!) but I believe our current form is not top 8 material and I don't think we are currently in the best 8 teams in the league. Our last two performances have been far from inspiring and the gap between our best few players (Judd in particular!) and the rest is a real concern. Whether due to poor drafting or a lack of adequate development, we dont seem to get our later draft picks to develop to a level required to dramatically improve our side. Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer are progressing nicely but the depth we have recruited is below par.

I agree that the scum have probably overtaken us and seem to have improved at a steady rate. Even the dees, with another go at the sharp end of the draft will improve immeasurably next year and beyond.
Without igniting the tanking debate, I would love another go at a top 8 pick this year (then again we might take a risky gamble with it like last year and miss out!) just to add another quality kid to the list - preferably a mid to replace Stevens who will never be the same for us but was the quality mid everyone had pencilled in as the class midfield 4 for our side.

Coach, development and recruiting all have elements that deserve criticism AFAIC

_________________
C'mon Blueboys!

No confidence? Are you inside the players minds?
Under developed? Or just still developing?

_________________
"I had to eat"

*edit*

Yarran really is the key.
We need more than just Murphy, Gibbs, and Judd in midfield.
Grigg is a lock-in, so that's one extra.
Walks cannot be relied on given his shoulders.
Betts is a pinch hitter only.
Russell is showing good signs, thank God for that.

But the whole Yarran/Rich thing could be the key.
Rich added to Gibbs, Murphy, Grigg, Russell would be ideal.
So Yarran had want to be the goods in my view.

_________________
It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it

Not really on topic, but just a little something that has been bugging me..



Yes, Fevola put the ball through the big sticks, but if it wasn't for the hardwork of some of his teammates, he wouldn't have been able to do so.

Just like the Hawks game where Fev missed the goal to put us in front, people were saying not to blame Fev as the whole team stuffed up at certain times. Same applies here - don't just praise 1 player, it's a team sport and if Fev had had to get the ball from the middle himself, there's no way he would have kicked all those goals.

It was just lucky for us that he was able to convert. How many times though have the midfielders in particular, worked really hard to get him the ball, and he's missed the shot?

Let's not forget the other players out there who worked hard to win the game and allow Fev be able to kick 9 goals.

_________________
The turning of the tide, falling in behind
Pretending not to find, the questions in my mind
The shining of the day, the old familiar way
Follow the road where it leads
And all the way we will sing...

Of course they deserve criticism. Many here seem to think that I am afraid of any criticism of the Club. That is certainly not the case and never has been.

But there is a grand canyon of difference between criticism based on honest, common sense assessments and criticism based on personal agendas such as those never ending posts from Melvey.

It's not rocket science to realise that the Blues currently aren't a great team. The Club is a work in progress. What is so hard to understand about that fact? A WORK IN PROGRESS! Ratts is a work in progress, Gibbs is a work in progress and the development of the Team list is a constant work in progress.

Nobody within the Club and particularly the Football Department is under any illusion about where the Club is at and what it needs to do to improve. It's a slow process because human nature is involved and there is no magic wand. No-one is high 5ing down at the club. Nobody is sitting on their backsides thinking life is rosey and Premierships are won by just turning up. Everyone knows we need to win a minimum 4 of the remaining 7 games to make the finals.

How about some honest criticism with some well thought out assessments based on facts and not on knee jerk reactions to a bad quarter here and a missed goal there. Lets look at things like 6 day breaks after flying from Perth having played on the biggest ground in the AFL. Lets look at how well our Rookies are doing. Lets look at the improvement in Setanta, Hampster, Grigg and Bower. Lets look at the improved field kicking of Murph and Carrazzo.

Remember - Work in Progress - Criticism through honest assessment of all the factors.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

The "no confidence" theory displays a total lack of understanding of how young players think.
When you lack confidence, you dont come back from 5 goal + deficits. Players lacking confidence fall away very quickly when they're challenged.
The Freo game shows that the players have confidence in their abilities and structures to persist and persevere.

Do yourself a favour NBH, wade through the uninformed nonsense and you'll feel much better for it.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

In regards to development, just to throw up an example, why hasn't Austin improved to the level of a Tayte Pears to mention a player. Tayte is a year younger, similar dimensions and has essentially cemented a spot in their defence and playing reasonable footy. Austin has shown potential but hasn't progressed to the same level. He could eventually but it is fair to say that the rate of improvement hasn't been as steep for Austin.

Comparisons suck I know, but just to highlight and back up the criticism

_________________
C'mon Blueboys!

I think we're exactly where we thought we'd be...

Most people predicted at the start of the year that we'd finish between 6th-8th, and thats exactly where we are at the moment. Talk earlier in the year of Carlton being a top 4 side was I believe, just over excited, unwarranted, early season hype..

Also, dont forget people, that had Fev (and the team in general) kicked straight earlier in the year, we would've won at least 2 or 3 more games as well. Apart from the aborations against Adelaide and the Bummers (the 2nd encounter), we've been more then competitive in all other games..

Cant believe we're in the 8, have been there for most of the year, won 4 out of our last 6 games, yet some people just sook sook sook....

_________________
James Hird and Essendon* FC - #FOREVERDRUGCHEATS

I understand what you're saying, but they're different players, with different potential and ability. Austin was drafted in Round 3 and Pears Round 2.

It maybe shows we have greater depth ahead of him though with Jamo, Bower, Thornton and Waite.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Actually Cazz some of us given examples on why we believe we are average compared to other teams.What we are NOT doing.. and how we are NOT playing.

And some give us theory on how everything is going to be hunky dory... but without evidence.

Id call that "afraid"... or "hopefu;"... or just plain old "dellusional"... maybe even some kind of "spin"...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Pears is OK but what about Cale Hooker? He's a year older than Austin and hasn't shown a lot.
Bachar Houli cant keep his spot in the side. Has he improved at all since his first year?
Jetta was a top 20 pick and hasn't gone anywhere.
David Myers is the same age as Bryce Gibbs and was a top 10 pick. Why hasn't he performed anywhere near Gibbs' standard?
As for Ricky Dyson, let's not even go there.

Comparisons are OK Marciblue but we cant be selective in our assessments. Essendon* have Melveys love god in Richardson there but have all their kids improved?
No. Some have gone past ours, some of ours have gone past theirs. Every team could use similar examples.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

BV, the "lack of confidence " would in my mimd be due to the confusion in the pattern of play.....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Yeah but if we don't know what we're doing then surely the opposition's going to find it hard to work us out...

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

From rock bottom to average in 2 years (actually better then average) is not too bad IMHO.

Is it me or are the arguments here nearlly identical to the mega Ratts thread? Why dont we wait a few more weeks and see how the team goes? Could be we win 5 of the next 7........ could be we loose 5 out of 7 and don't make the 8. I reserve my final judgement. Making the 8 was the goal for this year and so far we are on track. If we win a final on top of that I'll be happy and would expect top 4 next year.

_________________
TC suffers from the social media illness - the death of respect and constructive discourse by keyboard.

I can understand that response and agree, he hasn't had to play as one of the 2-3 key backs as we have had cover. But my concern and marking down of where we are at and criticism at our level of improvement, development and perhaps even recruiting is based on these players that we have selected beyond those "certain" picks not progressing as others we see. That really make the difference between a side really on the up or one just improving at a slower rate.

And Cazzesman, I appreciate your response and do understand that a lot of things at the club are still a work in progress but it is frustrating to see that we still have a lot of holes in our team and list and have failed to perhaps capitalise on our recruiting and developing our talent.

My example with Austin is just to highlight. That could extend to a Hartlett for example. Have we been able to develop him properly and to a level required or is it simply a case of a lot of bad luck and a poor selection at the time. Jake Edwards as well. Joe Anderson also, should he be playing better footy and have a better skill base? I realise that it is a lottery but this is where clubs can accelerate their development and leapfrog clubs in the cyclical nature of list lifecycles and rebuilding. I just don't think things are as rosy as others think and would prefer to be seeing some more players certainly pushing through harder than they are and a stronger bottom 6 or 10 then that I am seeing

_________________
C'mon Blueboys!

Carrots?

Why is there a ? after the thread title when it isn't a question????? It's clearly a statement/claim. Pretty average IMO.

_________________
T E A M

Now this is not a cop out or an excuse it is simple a fact. Go back over the recruiting of all teams over the past 10 years and no matter who the Recruiting manager has been, they all only average abit over a 50% success rate for all picks made.

Even Scott Clayton has got just as many wrong as right.

You can pick out early selections from every club that have failed or been success stories. Would Hartlett be a better play if injuries hadn't so badly effected his early years? Would Livo have been a better player is he had a slower build up to the AFL and not been thrown into Full Back as a young under developed lad when we were a bottom of the ladder team. It's not as simple as he kicks okay, he moves okay so he will make it. Alot of external factors come into play.

Austin has just as many good football skills as Pears. Austin was an AIS lad and dominated the U16 Champs. Pears has taken to the AFL very quickly. Austin has taken abit longer to get his head around what is required to be the best he can be. Perhaps his broken leg as a 16/17 year old had some lasting effect. Who knows, kids are obviously all wired differently. Now the penny has dropped, he has gotten physically bigger and he is starting to feel at home in the AFL. I have no doubt he will go on from strength to strength.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Your candour is appreciated Cazz....and it is a pleasure to see your insights eg. re. Austin.

I agree it is also necessary to acknowledge the +s (ie. grigg over jetta, bowser, AJ etc) as well as the -s.....

And sometimes it is hard to get a full understanding from the outside. With this in mind, I would love to pick your brain to gain a greater understanding from the inside ...:

1. Is Yarran's progress 3/4 of the way through his first year about where you thought it would be ? Did you expect him to make more of an impact in Year 1? If the draft was redone now, would you still rate him ahead of Rich ?

2. Not sure if you get to many closed session trainings, but do we practise different kick out set ups ? Is there work being done to improve our ability to move the ball efficiently from kick outs ? If so, do you think it is just an execution issue on game day?