bloody Essendon*.

they are rubbish. everyone here talks about havng 3, 4 and 4 game plans, but all the while tell us how good Essendon* and their youth are.

they are still heavily reliant on Llyod, Lucas and Flethcer, all who want be at the club in 2 years time.

they have one plan, and thats plan on.

their coach is rubbish IMO. his sole instruction is "play on" if you stuff up, so be sit, play on.

Essendon* is the most over hyped rubbish side ive seen in ages. we have lost as many games by under a goal, as they have won games by under a goal.

ffs, just turn those results around and carlton sits 10-5 and the buumers are 6-9. We are a miles better side than them, yet we seem to go to water against them.

would anyone be talking about Essendon* in the same light or as "the team with most improvement" if they where sitting on the ladder with the same points as north melbourne?

they have had a good year, but bloody hell, people get carried away with them.

as for someomes comments about we havent beaten anyone.

we players and lost to st.kilda by 9 points, Houlihan kicks the goal we would have won
we havent played geelong yet
we played the blldogs and won
we played collingwood and won
we played adelaide and lost
we played brisbane and won twice

so of the 6 teams that sit higher than us, we have beaten 3 of them, lost won heavily and lost another by 9 points and havent played the last.

if we pllay like i know we can, we are more than capable of matching it with any side on the eight.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

How does Buckley saying Hawthorn and Essendon* have more potential than us equate to Ratts can't coach? I would have thought that it was more indicative that Bucks doesn't think our list is quite as good as some posters seem to believe.

It's the old we have Judd and three number one draft picks so we must be great, but the other teams have dud lists that only win due to being well coached

I must have missed Ablett and Stevie J dragging the Cats across the line against the Lions. They are very impressive players though

Wth Carlton it is a matter of time and application.

There will be a game where everything just falls into place and we will go on from there.

Whether Ratten is the man that coaches that particular game is another issue.

The potential is there but how it is being used and applied is the problem - which of course is the reason why people are questioining Ratten's coaching credentials.

these last 7 2009 home and away games are the ones that define his coaching tenure.

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My Blue Heaven

=kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

To be fair to the discontented I actually do believe that the Bombers have some really good kids coming through (not that I think that all of the discontented actually realised this before the season started) and in areas that could replace lucas, lloyd and Fletcher. There will be a transition period though, as you point out and it will be trickier to fill the experience/ leadership holes.

I totally agree on the gameplan for all that it kicks our butt, I can't see them winning a flag with it without a few tweaks, but then again all gameplans are organic and are continually being refined.

I actually look forward to the big games to come against the Bombers over the coming years. Although I think the key to us actually winning them will be an improvement in our roll-down from the forwardline. We really need a few of our young quick forwards to cement their spots in the team in the coming years. We also still need a bit more skill in the back half, but who can still defend when required. Interesting times

You're moving the goalposts at quite a rate lately.

Are you sure you haven't just been reading an old early 20th century textbook? In 1914-15 there was war in the Middle East and Carlton appointed a young coach (and former player) in Norm "Hackenschmidt" Clark who took the club to successive premierships.

It's the 21st century now.

Check the spine...

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

I think you will find that I have always stated that in the season of the 17th flag Carlton comes good in the last part of the season and have done so since 2001. The only bit that is different is the identity of the coach that wins the flag. The script remains the same - but the actor might be different.

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My Blue Heaven

As against all those sides that had a crap second half of the season and still won the premiership?

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

From my perspective, the 17th flag for Carlton is one that is totally unanticipated and unexpected.

So a season where we are in the 8 making up the numbers and, based on form - not expected to do anything other than make a finals appearance are the very kind of circumstances that the unexpected might occur.

If we had a top 4 finish and say we beat St Kilda instead of narrowly losing- then a flag would not be something that was unexpected at all.

Lowly circumstances are an obvious precondition that I’d expect to have for an unexpected outcome.

But for others - who don’t expect the unexpected - this is a crazy way to think.

Because most people expect nothing more than a first week finals appearance and have no expectation at all of the unexpected - talk of a flag for Carlton in a season like I have described obviously seems like a very unrealistic thing.

I don’t know the exact year of the unexpected flag and I still dont rule out 2009 - but obviously with the precondition of making the 8 - but I think that the unexpected 17th flag will occur with this bunch of players.

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My Blue Heaven

Why do our 'problems' have to be one or the other (coach VS list) - why can't it be a less extreme combination of the two?

It is outside my scope to comment on the coach issue but I do think we have looked at our lower picks in the draft as merely a way of providing 'foot-soldiers' to add to our high draft picks plus Fev and Judd who ostensibly will do the bulk of the work.

I was for the drafting of Johnson considering where we got him and who was left but generally I tend to think we can't help ourselves with having a little dabble for a more mature player once in a while merely for the sake of it. We have to try weed that out of us, IMO, as it achieves very little in the long term and just lessons our chances of finding players we can develop.

Ratten may or may not be "the man" but we should not ignore other issues.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Already been there Pafloyul In this and other threads it has been argued that it is a combination, but it doesn't seem to suit some as a viable option.

We have extremists...extremists I tell you

So, Melvey, how's Choco looking?

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Okay...you can't dissect St Kildas tactics, because you don't watch them enough, which is fair enough, but you seem sure that you are across every list in the AFL and have been using that in your assessment of each coaches performance...then using that as part of your critique of Ratts.

Are you sure your list assessments are correct?

His premiership looks good.

Its hard to not knock our coach when i see...........

No improvement

No distinct game plan or plans

No system going into attack

No forward structure

One week we are selecting a team for the future, the next one full of mature (hacks)

How about teaching our players a style of football that we need to play to win a grand final and not a bits and pieces style of play that changes from week to week.

Develop a game plan that opposition teams have to come up with strategies to beat us.

Why are we always on the back foot. Why do we go into every game worried that teams are going to jump us that we program the players to have this negative mind set and play tempo footy from the get go.

PLAY THE GAME ON OUR TERMS and then make adjustments from there. At least then the players will no exactly how they are to play

I was a bystander to a school team once that for decades had been often gone close but never taken out the big one. Two or three two self-important parents used to talk to players and perennially question the (relatively new but successful with other teams) coach's worth and call for his replacement. When the sports master supported the coach they wanted the sports master replaced. When the Headmaster supported the sports master they wanted the Headmaster replaced. The team never did bag the big one.
It seems sporting organisations are always full of frictions and factions.
IMO we have Ratts for the duration of his contract. Meanwhile I don't see how undermining him helps the club.

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Bawditawaba

so you seem to be saying you wanna a horses for course this week??? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25394&start=40

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

Hahahahahahaha......

I think everyone knows what I'm thinking......

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

It's more that he wants to change the criteria to suit his arguments moment by moment

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.