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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:11 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:57 pm
Posts: 82
teagueyubeauty wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
It's pretty funny actually. Some posters bag Ratten for having a boys club and not showing courage at selection. When he makes the hard calls and drops players Pagan would have never considering for demotion, he gets criticised anyway. :lol:

Not true, Pagan was on radio last week sometime (could have been earlier this week :? ) and he was answering panelists questions about what he'd do with underperforming senior players and he said that he'd tried to drop Fev, Stevens, Whitnall et al on some occasions but was overruled.

Seems the players don't like being told the truth on one hand and yet on the other take the piss with Ratts softly softly approach.

If Ratts is fair dinkum then the senior players dropped need at least 2 weeks in the magoos and never to return unless they are killing it as they should at that level. I look forward to the bullants reports for the next couple of weeks even more than usual.


Given it happened to Pagan, how do we know that Ratts isn't getting overruled?

Yes, Ratts is more soft than Pagan (Gibbs basically said this), but i don't like the idea that the administration continually overrules the coach on certain players and selection


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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:22 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
Location: East Brunwick
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
Melvey wrote:
He missed the preseason due to poor management by Ratts.


What? :screwy:


Scotto needed an op half way through last year. Rather than him go under the knife and get him ready for 2009, they decided they play him for the rest of the year because we had the slightest chance to finish eighth (imagine the accolades for Ratts if we made the finals in his first year)........... he had the operation at the end of the season missing the crucial pre christmas fitness base work and he has suffered.


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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:01 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Quote:
Scotland and Stevens might be thinking that Fev was as bad if not worse than us. Why didn't he get whacked?


Quote:
I reckon Scotland and Stevens would but justified in thinking so

Backed the wrong horse here if you ask me

Fev was the man who should have sat this one out- bigger statement than Stevens and Scotland


AGREE. How easy is it for Ratten to puff his chest out and drop players like Scotland, Princess (Houlihan), Carlos (earlier in year) and Browne. Sorry, but they have become sacrificial lambs. Stevens virtually dropped himself. Send Fev to the Bullants for a couple of weeks (and I love Fev). I know I may rile some on this site, but I'll be pissed off if we beat Freo because Fev decides to play this week and kick a bag. It is NOT sustainable. If we beat Freo with an even contribution, that's fine.
PS. FWIW, I think there are some issues at the club with who gets preferential treatment. Fix it quickly Ratts otherwise you'll be shown the door at the end of 2010.

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Last edited by DownUnderChick on Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Assisted with quoting


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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:35 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18005
woof wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
It's pretty funny actually. Some posters bag Ratten for having a boys club and not showing courage at selection. When he makes the hard calls and drops players, he gets criticised anyway. :lol:


Scotland and Stevens might be thinking that Fev was as bad if not worse than them. Why didn't he get whacked?


Why would they think that?

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:43 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18005
The Exorcist wrote:
Given it happened to Pagan, how do we know that Ratts isn't getting overruled?

Yes, Ratts is more soft than Pagan (Gibbs basically said this), but i don't like the idea that the administration continually overrules the coach on certain players and selection



I was being sarcastic Exorcist.

The theory that the administration overrule slections is farcical. Pagan wouldn't have tolerated administrators telling him who to select on a weekly basis. If he did, he is weak and didn't deserve the role in the first place.

The match committee select the teams.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:44 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4919
Considering the very defensive mindset we had last Friday night I would say one of the cornerstones of Rats instructions was to apply as much pressure on the Bombers when they had the ball to try and slow them down.
I just reckon Stevo and Scotto might have be wondering what Fev was doing after Tate Pears took his 3rd bounce on the half forward flank and then stood there wondering who do I kick it too? After sizing up his options under no pressure whatsoever for the 30 or 40 seconds he had the ball he spotted Slattery running into the goal square and duly delivered.


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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:47 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18005
woof wrote:
Considering the very defensive mindset we had last Friday night I would say one of the cornerstones of Rats instructions was to apply as much pressure on the Bombers when they had the ball to try and slow them down.
I just reckon Stevo and Scotto might have be wondering what Fev was doing after Tate Pears took his 3rd bounce on the half forward flank and then stood there wondering who do I kick it too? After sizing up his options under no pressure whatsoever for the 30 or 40 seconds he had the ball he spotted Slattery running into the goal square and duly delivered.


No wonder they're being dropped then!

Obviously they dont understand how a zone defence works.
Fevola wasn't responsible for Tayte Pears.

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:54 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 63509
Melvey wrote:
Scotto needed an op half way through last year. Rather than him go under the knife and get him ready for 2009, they decided they play him for the rest of the year because we had the slightest chance to finish eighth (imagine the accolades for Ratts if we made the finals in his first year)........... he had the operation at the end of the season missing the crucial pre christmas fitness base work and he has suffered.


So it was Ratts' fault that the Football Dept went with medical advice, not to mention that Scotto probably wanted to keep going?

Your agenda is getting really silly now.

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:21 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 8128
Blue Vain wrote:
woof wrote:
Considering the very defensive mindset we had last Friday night I would say one of the cornerstones of Rats instructions was to apply as much pressure on the Bombers when they had the ball to try and slow them down.
I just reckon Stevo and Scotto might have be wondering what Fev was doing after Tate Pears took his 3rd bounce on the half forward flank and then stood there wondering who do I kick it too? After sizing up his options under no pressure whatsoever for the 30 or 40 seconds he had the ball he spotted Slattery running into the goal square and duly delivered.


No wonder they're being dropped then!

Obviously they dont understand how a zone defence works.
Fevola wasn't responsible for Tayte Pears.


Fevola, being a senior player, could have made the effort to chase. That's setting an example, at the very least.

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4919
Blue Vain wrote:
woof wrote:
Considering the very defensive mindset we had last Friday night I would say one of the cornerstones of Rats instructions was to apply as much pressure on the Bombers when they had the ball to try and slow them down.
I just reckon Stevo and Scotto might have be wondering what Fev was doing after Tate Pears took his 3rd bounce on the half forward flank and then stood there wondering who do I kick it too? After sizing up his options under no pressure whatsoever for the 30 or 40 seconds he had the ball he spotted Slattery running into the goal square and duly delivered.


No wonder they're being dropped then!

Obviously they dont understand how a zone defence works.
Fevola wasn't responsible for Tayte Pears.


Ultimately if you want to feel obliged to put the ball in the kids face after you take a mark and then proceed to kick a point you are showing the 80,000+ people at the ground plus the million that are watching on TV that you are responsible or perhaps irresponsible?


Last edited by woof on Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:01 pm
Posts: 34503
Location: The Brown Wedge
BINGO!!

Hit the nail on the head, woof.

You'd think a bloke of 28 would know that you only carry on like that when you're 10 up with 5 on the clock.

Shushing the WC crowd at the Dome, and panzying around with a soon-to-be rising star nominee, is just plain Fevola.

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:35 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Blue Vain wrote:
woof wrote:
Considering the very defensive mindset we had last Friday night I would say one of the cornerstones of Rats instructions was to apply as much pressure on the Bombers when they had the ball to try and slow them down.
I just reckon Stevo and Scotto might have be wondering what Fev was doing after Tate Pears took his 3rd bounce on the half forward flank and then stood there wondering who do I kick it too? After sizing up his options under no pressure whatsoever for the 30 or 40 seconds he had the ball he spotted Slattery running into the goal square and duly delivered.


No wonder they're being dropped then!

Obviously they dont understand how a zone defence works.
Fevola wasn't responsible for Tayte Pears.


Seems Fev isn't responsible for much these days. But hey, he'll kick a bag in the next few weeks and present us all with a bale of straw for all of us to clutch on.

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:09 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:27 am
Posts: 28528
Location: Free Beer!!
Blue Vain wrote:
woof wrote:
Considering the very defensive mindset we had last Friday night I would say one of the cornerstones of Rats instructions was to apply as much pressure on the Bombers when they had the ball to try and slow them down.
I just reckon Stevo and Scotto might have be wondering what Fev was doing after Tate Pears took his 3rd bounce on the half forward flank and then stood there wondering who do I kick it too? After sizing up his options under no pressure whatsoever for the 30 or 40 seconds he had the ball he spotted Slattery running into the goal square and duly delivered.


No wonder they're being dropped then!

Obviously they dont understand how a zone defence works.
Fevola wasn't responsible for Tayte Pears.


People still think its the 80's and we play man on man the whole game.

If you read Ratts comments after the game its easy to understand why Stevens and Scotland were dropped. I'd suggest there were some team orientated aspects of the game they weren't adhering too.

Its very difficult to criticise decisions like this and Russell's inclusion if you don't know the the goals and benchmarks that are set for players.

I'm certainly in no better position to understand them, but the people selecting the team are.

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
Location: East Brunwick
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
Melvey wrote:
Scotto needed an op half way through last year. Rather than him go under the knife and get him ready for 2009, they decided they play him for the rest of the year because we had the slightest chance to finish eighth (imagine the accolades for Ratts if we made the finals in his first year)........... he had the operation at the end of the season missing the crucial pre christmas fitness base work and he has suffered.


So it was Ratts' fault that the Football Dept went with medical advice, not to mention that Scotto probably wanted to keep going?

Your agenda is getting really silly now.


Your response is silly.


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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18005
99prelim wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
No wonder they're being dropped then!

Obviously they dont understand how a zone defence works.
Fevola wasn't responsible for Tayte Pears.


Seems Fev isn't responsible for much these days. But hey, he'll kick a bag in the next few weeks and present us all with a bale of straw for all of us to clutch on.


Be thankful. If you cant grasp the concept of a zone defence, at least you can grasp the straw. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:06 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 63509
Melvey wrote:
Kaptain Kouta wrote:

So it was Ratts' fault that the Football Dept went with medical advice, not to mention that Scotto probably wanted to keep going?

Your agenda is getting really silly now.


Your response is silly.


I know you are, but what am I? :lol:

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.


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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:13 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
Location: East Brunwick
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
I know you are, but what am I? :lol:


I wont say for the fear of a lifetime banning on here :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 63509
Melvey wrote:
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
I know you are, but what am I? :lol:


I wont say for the fear of a lifetime banning on here :wink:


That happens to me surprisingly often. :lol: :lol: :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:41 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 18288
Location: talkingcarlton.com
Enough off topic japery thanks you two.


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 Post subject: Re: Heath Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:16 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:03 pm
Posts: 4251
Location: Around the Corner
Indeed. The topic.

Heath Scotland is one of the few players in this team who will put his body on the line routinely, and without thinking.

What he did int he last quarter of a Collingwood thumping this year sums up him as a player and what he will do for the team.

I would be absolutely FILTHY if I were Scotto. He deserves better, and his dropping, more than any other (who were thororughly deserved), smacks of media driven REACTION.

We're playing on a huge ground this weekend, so we take out one of our longest accurate kicks who can cover the gorund reasonably well.

Terrific MC. Good thinking. Instead, we'll being in the slowest player on our list who... guess what.. couldn't kick over a packet of tim tams.


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