That's a good post Kouta. Lots of useful nuggets there - also good to see your hindsight rhetoric is back in order

The culture would change if they could recruit players that could actually kick the ball to one of their own with out turning it over

Bombers 16 goals 5 from turn overs must be the worst stat ever

Give me kicking skills over this culture bulldust any day

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They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Maybe.
Maybe he had surgery and someone asked what was going on. Amazing concept I know

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Should take about five years of drafting...
Excellent call...

All other clubs have players on their list they draft that come to a club champion kicks and unbelievably skilled...

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Bryce Gibbs and Marc Murphy are very good players as we know but they turn it over and under the present environment have almost gone backwards with some of their kicking skills.......some of our kids have stalled or gone backwards.
If you have a culture that doesnt embrace being the best and accepting medicority then it will filter down to even the basic elements of the game including skills....I was surprised to hear that when Fev and others were having problems kicking straight early on in the year that Ratten suggested he didnt have time for goalkicking sessions as the assistants had the players doing other skill sessions....is Ratten the coach or somebody else?

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

What hindsight?

I wanted to trade Whitnall four years ago.

Other supporters posted that we needed Big Red to develop our spine whilst he wasn't training hard and doing the right things by the club as a professional footballer. You either trade them whilst they still have value or end up with deadwood after the game pasts them by overnight.

See you Fevola.

The thing that has surprised me most about Ratts is that as a player he was always very good at doing the 1%'s. We do not do this (I was going to say enough) but I'll tell the truth and say we dont do it at all.

We have not been trained as a team to do the TEAM things. We play as individuals. This TEAM mentality needs to be instilled because with it comes discipline and with discipline comes the capability of playing to specified structures,instructions and plans.

Ratts isn't able to get the players to play with any semblance of desire let alone anything wow like implementing game plans. I've followed this club for over 30 years and in the last 8 years what has stood out the most (for me) is the total lack of hunger and passion for the jumper.

It simply is non existent from the majority who go out there. And this is something you dont just switch on for one game and off for two. It's either instilled and remains or it isnt there and when it does make a seemingly long awaited appearance it turns out to have been proven fake 7 days later.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

So....somehow it's Ratten's fault that some players don't do the things that Ratten was known for?

Forgive me, but

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I'm sorry but that's just crap. Marc Murphy has worked really hard on his kicking and compared to previous years the improvement is out of sight. He may have had a bad game on Friday, but I would hardly call that going backwards.

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STURDYISM!!

This is an issue that really shits me. I don't know if the Kernahan story is dead set true or not, but the mere fact the rumour exists saddens me greatly.

It's almost as if Black Friday has counted for nothing.

Kernahan's time as an administrator passed a while ago I reckon, we need to get serious.

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We are in agreement here.

IMO on-field leadership is the problem, sure Juddy is a star person and player, but Stevens, Fevola, Houlihan, Scotland, Thornton the other senior players are not leaders by example or voice. [To defend the culture argument, yes all have history either on the drink or turning up out of shape or wanting out], but what is worse (Scotland aside) they go missing on-field in courage or (positive) voice or just ability to lift the team by example.
Houlihan is in the side for his kicking I assume, not his courage, but he couldn't hit a cows ar$e with a banjo last Friday night. 800k a season Fevola misses a kick for goal at start of the 3rd then proceeds to sulk for the rest of the quarter hands on knees, inspiring his NRS opponent to run off him and set up their win from Full back FFS!. Stevens looks to be nursing his body through his last big contract, Thornton spits it with team mates and last game against Essendon* where he was isolated as being able to be sucked in by their coaching staff.
Basically our senior experienced group is mentally soft and after years of losing acceptably they need a change of club to re-ignite or retire, and we need to stop them providing a crap example to our much coveted group of early picks.
They can party on all they like, and some have, but on the field is where it needs to happen and like every sport in the world, all will be forgiven.

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Green Shooter

Can only agree with this. So many times when there has been the need to stand up, the core of players mentioned above go missing. Leadership culture has huge scope for improvement, on and off the field.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

The only problem with the culture at Carlton is Fevola. He is the one who thinks he is bigger than the team/club. His attitude is poison to our young group (who all apparently think he is a champion bloke). Carlton cannot win a flag with Fevola in the team. We need to accept that and move on.

Am I the only one that thinks Fevola's antics (and probably what was said in the rooms at half time) was a major factor in the dispirited and individualistic 2nd half performance last week. There are two standards being applied - one for Fevola - and one for the rest of the team. (Actually this is not surprising as the media also has a Fevola standard different from the rest eg. "great play by Fev there ... he chased" WTF!) How can the team not be dispirited when the coach does not hold Fevola to the same standard as them?

And that leads me to the next problem. It is becoming clear Ratten is out of his depth. Reactive and regularly outcoached ...... and clearly lacking the courage to make a stand for team discipline with his gun full forward (or just besotted?)

As for Stevens, I agree that this should probably be his last season but I will always be grateful for the fantastic service he has given the club thru our darkest period .... there were times when he carried the team ..... I think it is clear that since his neck injury he is not the same player .... it was very nearly career ending (even life threatening) injury and that must shake your confidence to put yourself at risk again in unprotected situations. Who knows, he may even be under instruction not to put himself at risk. I am sure his teammates appreciate his situation and it saddens me to see the criticism he is cops now.

As for Sticks as president, I agree that the Ratten extension was hasty and it now appears ill advised, but are people seriously suggesting that our greatest on field leader of the modern era is setting the wrong cultural tone. Come on.

So ..... trade Fev to Swans for O'Keefe (did he sign for more than one year?) ..... making my fantasy forward line next year: Betts, Kreuzer, Garlett; Yarran, Waite, Okeefe/Higgins; (with camoes from Hammer and maybe even Setanta)

Time to move forward.

Probably would be John Nicholls and Nicholls had to be released from jail to play saturdays...

On onfield leadership. Alot of people didnt think Ratts was a natural leader as captain.

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Don't want to lose Fev but time to make the heartbreaking call. Agreed

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Top post! IMO the biggest problem facing Ratts and the MC is one that would be daunting even for a four time premiership coach (Parko, Sheeds?)
Under Sir Richard's (and possibly Elliott's) reign Fevola enjoyed patronage and support at the highest level. This encouraged "The Fevola Show" and being a guest at Raheen made him feel immune to being dropped.
[edit]
Fevola's PR flak gets him exposure in the media almost daily, much more so than Coutts is able to. Keeping in front of the media is obviously Fevola's top priority. Kicking goals is vital to this, more so than Carlton winning. IMO his longer term first priorityis to becpme a media celebrity before he finishes playing and make it his career after retirement. He is showing the younger players how to carve out a lucrative media career long term and some are gullible enough to follow. I believe he will finish up a cross betwen Britney Spears / Wacko Jacko / Warwick Capper / Shane Crawford. Look out for an appearance on TFS this week or next,or at least a segment on Fevola. Which young Carlton players has Fevola introduced to the Footy Show already?
Judd's great leadership on and off the field is neutralised at every turn by Fevola's antics. Most journos are not Carlton supporters and they like reporting on Fevola, it's easy copy and they're know it's not helping Carlton.
Ratts and the MC have a huge task in dealing with all this. Sticks and Ratts are great guys and have never been "Hollywood" types.
I have no issue with Sticks having a night out with the players once in a blue moon if it's with the entire group not just with a few favourites. At least he shows them some values different from "Hollywood" values and supports Ratts.
Presidents socialising with their favourite players:
Edelstein/Capper
Clinton Casey/several at Richmond
Elliott/Koutoufides post 1995
...

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Bawditawaba

What do you mean by this BITF?

Oddly enough, I actually think Sticks drinking with the players rumour, if true, isn't a bad thing as they would have gone out for a drink anyway post game.

This way, Sticks could control where the players went and if they got into trouble.

Unless the rumour states that everyone passed out in a drunken stupor, I don't have a real issue with it.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.